23 Oct
2012
23 Oct
'12
12:31 a.m.
I have a large number of surplus DE9F to 8P8C (RJ45) adapters available if
someone can use some. I counted at least 350, but I'm not sure of the
exact number. When I bought them many years ago, I was expecting to get
adapters that had all 8 wires present (based on the photo the seller
provided) but what he sent me were pre-wired and three of the wires are
clipped away down inside the adapter body. (It might be possible to extend
those three wires, but I didn't want to spend the time on it.) The
adapters are labeled with a "PC" sticker, so I have to assume they were
originally used to connect to a PC serial port of some sort. (Mixed in
with these were a handful of DE9M to 8P8C adapters labeled "UPS" that have
5 wires similarly clipped away).
These are located on the US side of the pond, and whoever might want some
will have to cover the postage. I don't think these adapters are really
worth very much, although I certainly won't complain if someone wants to
pay something for some of them and help offset my original purchase cost.
I didn't pay /too/ much for them, although I doubt I'd have bought them at
all had the seller been up front about what he had.
If these adapters sound useful at all I can see about taking some photos
and a work up the pinout. I just really can't see me ever using ~350 of
these things :)
23 Oct
23 Oct
8:46 p.m.
On 10/23/2012 12:31 AM, Tothwolf wrote:
If these adapters sound useful at all I can see about
taking some photos
and a work up the pinout. I just really can't see me ever using ~350 of
these things :)
I recognize these and even recall an office suite that we used (around
1985) being wired this way. The idea is that you had the same installer
wire your phone system to the KSU, and give you a punch-down block in
the closet to wire your terminals. So basically, you attached the
adapters to your PeeCees or terminals and connected them to pairs in the
cable (usually 50-conductor) that also carried your phone traffic using
more-or-less standard modular cords.
Radio Shack, believe it or not, used to sell DB25F versions of these
with a 4-conductor modular connector in the connector hood. I still
have a couple.
--Chuck
24 Oct
24 Oct
5:53 a.m.
On Oct 23, 2012, at 11:46 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 10/23/2012 12:31 AM, Tothwolf wrote:
Baynesville Electronics in Baltimore, MD still sells them. They're handy
for more than just the above-mentioned situation (lots of places used a
similar scheme for LocalTalk wiring for Macs, thanks to Farallon's
PhoneNet adaptor, which let you run whole small networks over similar
wiring). I seem to recall some Cisco routers using the 8P8C serial
connection directly, but that may be faulty memory; it's been a while
since I've used a Cisco router, and if I never do again, it might be too
soon.
- Dave
If these adapters sound useful at all I can see
about taking some photos
and a work up the pinout. I just really can't see me ever using ~350 of
these things :)
I recognize these and even recall an office suite that we used (around 1985) being wired
this way. The idea is that you had the same installer wire your phone system to the KSU,
and give you a punch-down block in the closet to wire your terminals. So basically, you
attached the adapters to your PeeCees or terminals and connected them to pairs in the
cable (usually 50-conductor) that also carried your phone traffic using more-or-less
standard modular cords.
Radio Shack, believe it or not, used to sell DB25F versions of these with a 4-conductor
modular connector in the connector hood. I still have a couple. 
2:57 p.m.
On 24/10/12 13:53, David Riley wrote:
I seem to recall some Cisco routers using the 8P8C
serial
connection directly, but that may be faulty memory; it's been a while
since I've used a Cisco router, and if I never do again, it might be too
soon.
Nope - your memory is fine. I'm sitting next to a Catalyst 2970G which
has the aforementioned RJ45 console port.
To connect it to a PC you use either a "rollover" cable and adapter or a
Cisco console cable - basically the same thing but without a detachable
rollover cable (a piece of 8-core flat cable is crimped onto an 8P8C
RJ45 then attached to a moulded-on DE9F connector).
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
4:05 p.m.
On 24/10/2012 22:57, Philip Pemberton wrote:
Nope - your memory is fine. I'm sitting next to a
Catalyst 2970G which
has the aforementioned RJ45 console port.
To connect it to a PC you use either a "rollover" cable and adapter or a
Cisco console cable - basically the same thing but without a detachable
rollover cable (a piece of 8-core flat cable is crimped onto an 8P8C
RJ45 then attached to a moulded-on DE9F connector).
Look up "Yost" if you want to know where Cisco stole that idea from.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
6:08 p.m.
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012, Pete Turnbull wrote:
On 24/10/2012 22:57, Philip Pemberton wrote:
Not so fast. DEC was already doing this with 6P6C MMJ cables with a nearly
identical system before Dave Yost came up with his standard using 8P8C
adapters and cables. The additional two wires available with the 8P8C
connectors allows for RTS/CTS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_port#Pinouts
Apparently Cisco isn't /strictly/ Yost either but it looks like Cisco has
tried to standardize on it.
http://yost.com/computers/RJ45-serial/
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps332/products_tech_note0918…
Still, some of the first 8P8C connectors I remember seeing used with
serial devices were with Cyclades and Digi multi-port serial interfaces.
While the Yost system is more flexible, the systems Cyclades and Digi used
do have more signals available (including RI with Digi's, which could
generally be swapped via software from pin 1 on the 10P10C connector to
one of the pins that would be available to an 8P8C connector). Yost's
system wouldn't be too good for a bank of dialup modems, but Digi's system
was widely used for this.
Nope - your memory is fine. I'm sitting next
to a Catalyst 2970G which
has the aforementioned RJ45 console port.
To connect it to a PC you use either a "rollover" cable and adapter or
a Cisco console cable - basically the same thing but without a
detachable rollover cable (a piece of 8-core flat cable is crimped onto
an 8P8C RJ45 then attached to a moulded-on DE9F connector).
Look up "Yost" if you want to know where Cisco stole that idea from.
25 Oct
25 Oct
12:26 a.m.
On 25/10/2012 02:08, Tothwolf wrote:
Not so fast. DEC was already doing this with 6P6C MMJ
cables with a
nearly identical system before Dave Yost came up with his standard using
8P8C adapters and cables. The additional two wires available with the
8P8C connectors allows for RTS/CTS.
Yes, I know - I have plenty of MMJ stuff - but it was always
DEC-specific. The beauty of the Yost pinout is that it is uses
ubiquitous cables as well as a simple and versatile pinout. Hence it's
adoption by Cisco and Sun. Everyone else was doing something unique and
often not even consistent within one product line (three different 8P8C
pinouts for Shiva terminal servers with the same model number is the
most extreme example I recall).
The Wikipedia page lists three 8P8C pinouts. My department's internal
wiki lists eight that we had to have cables for :-( Well, seven we
used, and TIA561 for completeness. I've never known anything actually
use that one.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
2:45 p.m.
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012, Pete Turnbull wrote:
On 25/10/2012 02:08, Tothwolf wrote:
Well, my point was that Cisco likely didn't "steal" the idea from Dave
Yost per se. Given that the pinout for the inside 6 connections of the
6P6C MMJ cables (DTR, TD, GND, GND, RD, DSR) is identical to that of the
Yost standard (RTS, DTR, TD, GND, GND, RD, DSR+CD, CTS) I suspect Dave had
some prior experience with the DEC 6P6C MMJ standard and used that as the
basis for the Yost 8P8C standard. The upside to this is that in a pinch,
you could take a 6P6C MMJ to 6P6C cable like those I used to make and plug
the non-MMJ end into an 8P8C connector and only lose RTS/CTS. [Note that
doing this with cheaper 6P6C plugs that don't have slots molded in for
pins 1 and 8 /will/ bend and damage pins 1 and 8 in the 8P8C connector, so
even though there are people who swear by using 8P8C jacks with 6P6C plugs
for stuff like POTS telephone applications, I don't really recommend it.]
Not so fast. DEC was already doing this with 6P6C
MMJ cables with a
nearly identical system before Dave Yost came up with his standard
using 8P8C adapters and cables. The additional two wires available with
the 8P8C connectors allows for RTS/CTS.
Yes, I know - I have plenty of MMJ stuff - but it was always
DEC-specific. The beauty of the Yost pinout is that it is uses
ubiquitous cables as well as a simple and versatile pinout. Hence it's
adoption by Cisco and Sun. Everyone else was doing something unique and
often not even consistent within one product line (three different 8P8C
pinouts for Shiva terminal servers with the same model number is the
most extreme example I recall). The Wikipedia page lists three 8P8C pinouts. My
department's internal
wiki lists eight that we had to have cables for :-( Well, seven we
used, and TIA561 for completeness. I've never known anything actually
use that one.
Are any of those other pinouts "standard"? I've found the material in
several of these Wikipedia articles to be very incomplete. That table in
particular only gives the pinout for the DCE version of the Yost standard,
and doesn't even label it as such. I'm tempted to update it, but the table
format someone used doesn't lend itself to easy updates and it has been
over a year or more since I worked with these sorts of tables and
converted one to the easier to manage format. Sigh.
4:41 p.m.
On 25/10/2012 22:45, Tothwolf wrote:
Are any of those other pinouts "standard"?
I've found the material in
several of these Wikipedia articles to be very incomplete.
Well, for certain values of "standard", perhaps. Xylogics used one
pinout that was standard across their product line. One of the pinouts
we used is for data leads only, putting TxD, RxD and SG on pins 1, 3 and
2+6 respectively. That was devised by my boss, though I'm fairly sure
others have done the same thing. I believe some of the DB25-to-8P8C
adapters we have like that are off-the-shelf. The point of that pinout
is, of course, that you can use standard TIA-568 cables to make the
connections with Tx on one twisted pair and Rx on another, and use
standard crossover cables as a null-modem.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
6:40 p.m.
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> wrote:
On 25/10/2012 22:45, Tothwolf wrote:
The Nevada Western stuff we used in the 1980s was probably vendor
specific. I'd have to crack open on, but I don't remember being able
to swap out the modular cable with one that was made "upside down" and
turning it into a null modem. More directly, I don't think the 6P6C
pinout was symmetrical (there was only one ground wire, not two in the
middle).
You still could get adapters that routed eight terminal sessions over
a 25-pair cable with Telco 50-pin ends, and you could still use telco
punchdown blocks, but the device ends weren't wired like the later
Cisco stuff was.
-ethan
Are any of those other pinouts
"standard"? I've found the material in
several of these Wikipedia articles to be very incomplete.
Well, for certain values of "standard", perhaps. 
26 Oct
26 Oct
12:16 a.m.
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Pete Turnbull
<pete at dunnington.plus.com> wrote:
> On 25/10/2012 22:45, Tothwolf wrote:
>
>> Are any of those other pinouts "standard"? I've found the material
in
>> several of these Wikipedia articles to be very incomplete.
>
> Well, for certain values of "standard", perhaps.
We used to use them, at a couple of places I worked. There never
seemed to be a consistent pinout between even our own customer sites..
One particular scheme "evolved" due to the structured cabling being
shared between telephone and serial terminals - the serial stuff was
put on pairs not used by the phones, so as to reduce problems caused
by users plugging things into the wrong socket...
Rob
1:22 p.m.
One particular scheme "evolved" due to the
structured cabling being
shared between telephone and serial terminals - the serial stuff was
put on pairs not used by the phones, so as to reduce problems caused
by users plugging things into the wrong socket...
Avoid pins 4 and 5 for the serial port, that pair is commonly used for a
single telephone line.
Haiving ringing voltaeg (around 75-100V AC) appear between RS232 port
pins can really ruin your day.
-tony
2:43 p.m.
On Oct 26, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
A friend found out the hard way that you can't just hook up a PC sound
card to the phone line, either.
- Dave
One particular
scheme "evolved" due to the structured cabling being
shared between telephone and serial terminals - the serial stuff was
put on pairs not used by the phones, so as to reduce problems caused
by users plugging things into the wrong socket...
Avoid pins 4 and 5 for the serial port, that pair is commonly used for a
single telephone line.
Haiving ringing voltaeg (around 75-100V AC) appear between RS232 port
pins can really ruin your day.
27 Oct
27 Oct
1:40 a.m.
On 26 October 2012 21:22, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Avoid pins 4 and 5 for the serial port, that pair is
commonly used for a
single telephone line.
Haiving ringing voltaeg (around 75-100V AC) appear between RS232 port
pins can really ruin your day.
Indeed. One of my predecessors had implemented a system at several
sites where he used actual BT telephone sockets and cables to link
serial terminals/PCs up, albeit mounted upside down... The catalyst
for changing this all over to something less stupid was when the FD of
one company was shuffling his desk about, and reconnected the
identical cables running from his fax machine and brand new (486) PC
(running a terminal emulator) the wrong way around... Bye bye
integrated motherboard..
12:37 p.m.
Indeed. One of my predecessors had implemented a
system at several
sites where he used actual BT telephone sockets and cables to link
serial terminals/PCs up, albeit mounted upside down... The catalyst
IDIOT!
There was actualyl a similar connector for this, although it's very hard
to dffind nwo. It was normally black in colour, looked like a UP
telephone plug, but had notches in the non-contact face, and didn't have
the corner groove like a telepohne plug. So the telephoen plug ans this
oen were not compatible either way round.
They wrere designed to be used for computer interfaces, IIRC the QL used
them for the serial and joystick ports (they had the latches on opposite
sides so you coudln't plug a joystick into the serial port or vice versa.
And that's what said idiot should have used, Not telephone connectors.
I have a very simple rule for things I build. If a connector has a
single, accetped, use, then that's all I use it for too, particularly if
mixing them up could case problems. Mains connectors, like BS1363 13A
plugs amd IEC 'kettle conenctors') are only used for mains. UK telephone
plugs are only used for telephoens. There are exceptions. US telephone
conenctors (6p4c, 6p6c, 8p8c are used for non-telehpoen applicatiosn
quite often, so I have no problem with continuing that trend. D
connectoors are used for all sorts of thigns, so I don't restrict them
only to serial ports, etc.
I am of course particularly careful where dangerous voltages (to me or to
hardware) are involved, like mains, telephone lines, or outpus of HV
power supplies. Or where the unit is going to be used by soembody else.
-tony
2:07 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
I have a very simple rule for things I build. If a
connector has a
single, accetped, use, then that's all I use it for too, particularly if
mixing them up could case problems. Mains connectors, like BS1363 13A
plugs amd IEC 'kettle conenctors') are only used for mains. UK telephone
plugs are only used for telephoens. There are exceptions.
Photographic flash on newer (1950s and above) cameras used
a tiny coaxial connector called "PC". But the OTHER end,
where it plugged into the flash unit often used a connector
that was virtually identical to a USA MALE mains connector!
If you wanted to fire two flash units at once, you could
make a cord with a female mains connector, and TWO male
mains connectors!!
THAT is not a safe cable to leave lying around.
Yes, it's worth buying the service manual for Leica and Nikon.
I didn't know that you CAN! When I was 15, I bought a broken
Leica for $20. The only manual for Leica repair available in
those days (1965) in the USA Library Of Congress was in Russian.
It took me a while, but was a lot of fun.
Camera stores used to sell broken cameras cheap. My 4x5 was
in a paper bag labelled "most of a Linhof, $20"!
In the 1970s, I knew a camera repairman/collector; I traded
him a broken model II for a working IIIF
I adjusted slow shutter speeds by photographing a spinning record
(with a white mark on it)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2:29 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On 10/27/2012 02:07 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
Photographic flash on newer (1950s and above) cameras
used
a tiny coaxial connector called "PC". But the OTHER end,
where it plugged into the flash unit often used a connector
that was virtually identical to a USA MALE mains connector!
If you wanted to fire two flash units at once, you could
make a cord with a female mains connector, and TWO male
mains connectors!!
THAT is not a safe cable to leave lying around.
...and large flash bulbs of the time used ordinary Edison screw bases.
Not something that you'd want to put into your bedside reading lamp...
--Chuck
2:48 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 10/27/2012 02:07 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
They don't burn very long. BTDT.
Photographic flash on newer (1950s and above)
cameras used
a tiny coaxial connector called "PC". But the OTHER end,
where it plugged into the flash unit often used a connector
that was virtually identical to a USA MALE mains connector!
If you wanted to fire two flash units at once, you could
make a cord with a female mains connector, and TWO male
mains connectors!!
THAT is not a safe cable to leave lying around.
...and large flash bulbs of the time used ordinary Edison screw bases.
Not something that you'd want to put into your bedside reading lamp... 
3:33 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
At 2:29 PM -0700 10/27/12, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 10/27/2012 02:07 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
I have one of the cables with the two male connectors, it came with
my Graflex Super Graphic. I've been meaning to buy some bulbs, as
I'd like to try out the Graflex 'lightsaber' flash! :-)
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
Photographic flash on newer (1950s and above)
cameras used
a tiny coaxial connector called "PC". But the OTHER end,
where it plugged into the flash unit often used a connector
that was virtually identical to a USA MALE mains connector!
If you wanted to fire two flash units at once, you could
make a cord with a female mains connector, and TWO male
mains connectors!!
THAT is not a safe cable to leave lying around.
...and large flash bulbs of the time used ordinary Edison screw
bases. Not something that you'd want to put into your bedside
reading lamp...
--Chuck
4:22 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On 10/27/2012 03:33 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
I have one of the cables with the two male connectors,
it came with my
Graflex Super Graphic. I've been meaning to buy some bulbs, as I'd like
to try out the Graflex 'lightsaber' flash! :-)
Be aware that the little red ejector button is there for a reason--those
buggers are very hot after they've been used.
--Chuck
28 Oct
28 Oct
1:07 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
...and large flash bulbs of the time used ordinary
Edison screw bases.
Not something that you'd want to put into your bedside reading lamp...
ALthought I beleive some of types were designed to be fired by
mains-voltage AC. A book I have just picked up lists a 'Syncho-Press No
21' which is described as 'operates on voltages ranging from 3 to 125,
direct or alternating current'
-tony
2:26 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
[full size flash bulbs]
> Not something that you'd want to put into
your bedside reading lamp...
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
ALthought I beleive some of types were designed to be
fired by
mains-voltage AC. A book I have just picked up lists a 'Syncho-Press No
21' which is described as 'operates on voltages ranging from 3 to 125,
direct or alternating current'
But, they don't light for very long! (although admittedly
a lot longer than flash cubes, and "miniature" flash bulbs
(some of which, including 5, 25, 6, 26, and "FP" would fit
in an automotive tail-light or "tensor light" socket))
How much Knuth can you read in that amount of time?
When I was working on cars, an extremely mischievous cow-
orker put one of my large bulbs in my drop-light. But, we
called a truce before I got around to retaliation by using
flash powder. (which is now hard to find!)
29 Oct
29 Oct
12:38 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
When I was working on cars, an extremely mischievous
cow-
orker put one of my large bulbs in my drop-light. But, we
I see...
called a truce before I got around to retaliation by
using
flash powder. (which is now hard to find!)
At the HPCC conference over the lst couple of days I was demonstrting
soem classic hardware (an HP9100B + HP9125A plotter on Saturday, an
HP9820 and HP9830, both with homebrew EPROM modules on Sunday). I told
the audience that I had no objections to my machines being photographed
using any equipment apart from flashpowder. I did not want MgO over
everyhtin...
And yes, my friends are exactly the sort of people to have a flashpan,
etc. Not that they would want ot damage old HP machines...
-tony
28 Oct
28 Oct
1:04 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
Trivia quesiton : What does PC stand for here?
I have a very simple rule for things I build. If
a connector has a
single, accetped, use, then that's all I use it for too, particularly if
mixing them up could case problems. Mains connectors, like BS1363 13A
plugs amd IEC 'kettle conenctors') are only used for mains. UK telephone
plugs are only used for telephoens. There are exceptions.
Photographic flash on newer (1950s and above) cameras used
a tiny coaxial connector called "PC". But the OTHER end,
Yes, it's worth buying the service manual for Leica and Nikon.
I didn't know that you CAN! When I was 15, I bought a broken
You can certainly get some of them...
I am not sure it's necessary for screwmount Leicas. They are preceison
made, but actually quite simple. I had no problems repairing one 'by
eye'. Minox yes!. And don't even start to strip a minox unless you
relaise that the shutter _MUST_ be released somehow before sliding the
boddy odd, or you'll wreck at least the springs nad possibly the shutter
blades as well.
Leica for $20. The only manual for Leica repair
available in
those days (1965) in the USA Library Of Congress was in Russian.
Was that actually a Fed. or Zorki service manual? The early FEDs and
Zorkis were prtty much Leica copies.
I have an excellent book with IMHO an incorrect title : 'All you need to
know abotu the design and repair of Russian cameras'. Incorrect becaue it
doens;'t contain any information on MF SLRS or on the Narciss
sub-minatore SLR. But for the models it does cover, it;s exceleletn. One
thing it covers is the Kiev, which a copy of the pre-war Contax. And it's
got the best descriptio nfo that odd shutter that I have ever read.
It took me a while, but was a lot of fun.
Camera stores used to sell broken cameras cheap. My 4x5 was
YEs. I got a lot of interesting models that way. A copupe lf lcal shops
knoew I wanted such things and used ot offer them to me at low prices.
in a paper bag labelled "most of a Linhof,
$20"!
I like it !
As I mentioend before I bought a totally jammed Lieca 3 for aobut 1/6th
of the going price. I took it apart, put one drop of watch oil on the
second curtain latch shaft, and it was as good as new.
In the 1970s, I knew a camera repairman/collector; I
traded
him a broken model II for a working IIIF
I adjusted slow shutter speeds by photographing a spinning record
(with a white mark on it)
At one time a lot of commerical shutter testers worked in that sort of way.
-tony
5:19 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On 28/10/2012 20:04, Tony Duell wrote:
Trivia quesiton : What does PC stand for here?
The names of the companies who made the shutters those connectors
appeared on, of course :-) Except I think the second one is actually
the name of their famous shutter product rather than the parent company.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
6:13 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
For some reason I seem to remember it meaning "program control".
Sent from my iPhone
On 2012-10-28, at 8:19 PM, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> wrote:
On 28/10/2012 20:04, Tony Duell wrote:
Trivia quesiton : What does PC stand for here?
The names of the companies who made the shutters those connectors
appeared on, of course :-) Except I think the second one is actually
the name of their famous shutter product rather than the parent company.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
29 Oct
29 Oct
1:11 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On 28/10/2012 20:04, Tony Duell wrote:
Exactly. For the uninitiated, it's 'Prontor-Compur'.
Trivia quesiton : What does PC stand for here?
The names of the companies who made the shutters those connectors
appeared on, of course :-) Except I think the second one is actually the name of their famous shutter product rather than
the parent company.
YEs. The COmpur was developed from an earlier shutter called a 'Compound'
IIRC.
-tony
28 Oct
28 Oct
5:22 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
I don't know.
Obviously, right here, it means 5150
I don't remember for sure, but I assume that it was.
I LOVE it!
I made parts to adapt a Graflex back onto it, and got the rest going OK!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
Photographic
flash on newer (1950s and above) cameras used
a tiny coaxial connector called "PC". But the OTHER end,
Trivia
quesiton : What does PC stand for here? Leica for $20.
The only manual for Leica repair available in
those days (1965) in the USA Library Of Congress was in Russian.
Was that actually
a Fed. or Zorki service manual? The early FEDs and
Zorkis were prtty much Leica copies. YEs. I got a lot of interesting models that way. A
copupe lf lcal shops
knoew I wanted such things and used ot offer them to me at low prices.
broken/cheap good cameras don't seem to be available anymore.
in a paper bag
labelled "most of a Linhof, $20"!
I like it !
7:25 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
At 5:22 PM -0700 10/28/12, Fred Cisin wrote:
I think a lot of them now show up on eBay labeled "for parts", and go
for big $$$'s. :-(
We do have a couple local shops that specialize in film gear that get
interesting cheap stuff in from time to time. My one 8x10 cost me
all of about $200 as it's intended for dry plates. I got my
Deardorff V8 8x10 from the same shop, the bellows will need replaced
in the near future (new ones are easy enough to get), but even
factoring in the replacement bellows I got it for a song. Earlier
this year I picked up a really fun 6x9 (120 roll film) with a
Schneider lens for $10. Once I fixed the focus, it works great.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
YEs. I got a
lot of interesting models that way. A copupe lf lcal shops
knoew I wanted such things and used ot offer them to me at low prices.
broken/cheap good cameras don't seem to be available anymore.
7:48 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
>broken/cheap good cameras don't seem to be
available anymore.
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012, Zane H. Healy wrote:
I think a lot of them now show up on eBay labeled
"for parts", and go
for big $$$'s. :-(
The "golden age", when they went for nothing is gone.
Being able to become a "collector" now would mean buying
cameras for prices I previously would not have considered.
'course 15 years ago, people didn't want "collector" price for Apple
]['s
either!
We do have a couple local shops that specialize in
film gear that get
interesting cheap stuff in from time to time. My one 8x10 cost me
all of about $200 as it's intended for dry plates. I got my
Deardorff V8 8x10 from the same shop, the bellows will need replaced
in the near future (new ones are easy enough to get), but even
factoring in the replacement bellows I got it for a song. Earlier
this year I picked up a really fun 6x9 (120 roll film) with a
Schneider lens for $10. Once I fixed the focus, it works great.
I did recently get a back for my Linhof, after more than 4 decades of
using a Graflex back on it with homemade mountine.
9:03 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On 10/28/2012 8:25 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
We do have a couple local shops that specialize in
film gear that get
interesting cheap stuff in from time to time. My one 8x10 cost me all
of about $200 as it's intended for dry plates. I got my Deardorff V8
8x10 from the same shop, the bellows will need replaced in the near
future (new ones are easy enough to get), but even factoring in the
replacement bellows I got it for a song. Earlier this year I picked up
a really fun 6x9 (120 roll film) with a Schneider lens for $10. Once I
fixed the focus, it works great.
Zane
Well you can make Pin Hole camera's cheap ... :)
Does anybody still do the very early photographic glass plates?
Ben.
9:19 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
That would probably wet plate photography. People are definitely still doing it, and
getting some incredibly beautiful results.
Sent from my iPhone
On 2012-10-29, at 12:03 AM, ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
On 10/28/2012 8:25 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
We do have a couple local shops that specialize
in film gear that get
interesting cheap stuff in from time to time. My one 8x10 cost me all
of about $200 as it's intended for dry plates. I got my Deardorff V8
8x10 from the same shop, the bellows will need replaced in the near
future (new ones are easy enough to get), but even factoring in the
replacement bellows I got it for a song. Earlier this year I picked up
a really fun 6x9 (120 roll film) with a Schneider lens for $10. Once I
fixed the focus, it works great.
Zane
Well you can make Pin Hole camera's cheap ... :)
Does anybody still do the very early photographic glass plates?
Ben.
9:46 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
Does anybody still do the very early photographic
glass plates?
about 35 years ago, a friend of mine was doing sandbox holography. She
went in to Alpha Photo in Oakland, which was one of the few real
professional supply houses, where she bought her supplies. They had
different glass plates than she was used to using (dimensional stability
was too critical for film), so she asked about their suitability for
holography. The clerk said, "Don't know. But we have a customer who is
really expert about that, and I'll find out!"
When she got home, there was a message on her answering machine.
"Hello, this is Mike from Alpha Photo. We have a customer who wants to
know about glass plates for holography, . . . "
Speaking of which, . . .
Does anybody have need or use for a Fujinon table-top Holography System?
(from the 1970s, barely used, but needs a new laser tube. NO, a pocket
laser pointer is not suitable. Power supply is multi-tap, currently set
for 100VAC (Japan), about 24" x 18" x 14")
Free Pickup in Berkeley; I don't want to attempt to ship it.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
10:01 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On 10/29/2012 12:46 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
ROFL! That happened to me when I was working for an asshole about a
decade ago. I was designing with Philips (now NXP) mcs51 processors,
and he was convinced that I had no idea of what I was talking about. He
called Philips behind my back, and asked them a bunch of questions.
They told him they knew a guy local to him that was really good with
those processors, and would likely help him out on a consulting basis.
They then gave him my phone number. ;) Boy was he pissed.
But about glass plate holography...On a list I run, a few people are
doing a type of holography involving gelatin, DCG holograpy.
(DiChromated Gelatin) Some of the guys are doing some pretty impressive
work. They're using glass plates, coating them themselves.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Does anybody
still do the very early photographic glass plates?
about 35 years ago, a friend of mine was doing sandbox holography. She
went in to Alpha Photo in Oakland, which was one of the few real
professional supply houses, where she bought her supplies. They had
different glass plates than she was used to using (dimensional stability
was too critical for film), so she asked about their suitability for
holography. The clerk said, "Don't know. But we have a customer who is
really expert about that, and I'll find out!"
When she got home, there was a message on her answering machine.
"Hello, this is Mike from Alpha Photo. We have a customer who wants to
know about glass plates for holography, . . . " 
10:18 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
From Fred: and
On 10/28/2012 10:01 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
But about glass plate holography...On a list I run,
a few people are
doing a type of holography involving gelatin, DCG holograpy.
(DiChromated Gelatin) Some of the guys are doing some pretty impressive
work. They're using glass plates, coating them themselves.
-Dave
I worked with two other guys in 1971 with glass plates making
both
reflection and transmission holograms.
Included both solid objects, but the best item in the transmission ones
we made was a working lens. It was
positioned such that there was an item you could see thru it, and move
your head back and forth to change
the magnification. I don't recall any attempt to use a mirror.
We used helium-neon laser light or the exposure and playback.
jim
10:38 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On Oct 28, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
But about glass plate holography...On a list I run, a
few people are
doing a type of holography involving gelatin, DCG holograpy.
(DiChromated Gelatin) Some of the guys are doing some pretty impressive
work. They're using glass plates, coating them themselves.
As far as I know, plates for holography are the only ones you can easily buy. I think you
can still get dry plates for B&W from Europe, but, IIRC they started out at $100 for a
box of 10 small plates. Most do wet plate, but a few make there own dry plates. The
process to make dry plates looks rather time consuming, but doable. As for tintypes, it
is easy to buy kits to do them.
Zane
30 Oct
30 Oct
2:42 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On 29 October 2012 04:46, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
Those interested in home holography might enjoy this:
http://amasci.com/amateur/holo1.html
*Hand-drawn* holograms. Yes, really. Quite astounding.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
Does anybody
still do the very early photographic glass plates?
about 35 years ago, a friend of mine was doing sandbox holography. She
went in to Alpha Photo in Oakland, which was one of the few real
professional supply houses, where she bought her supplies. They had
different glass plates than she was used to using (dimensional stability
was too critical for film), so she asked about their suitability for
holography. The clerk said, "Don't know. But we have a customer who is
really expert about that, and I'll find out!"
When she got home, there was a message on her answering machine.
"Hello, this is Mike from Alpha Photo. We have a customer who wants to
know about glass plates for holography, . . . "
Speaking of which, . . .
Does anybody have need or use for a Fujinon table-top Holography System?
(from the 1970s, barely used, but needs a new laser tube. NO, a pocket
laser pointer is not suitable. Power supply is multi-tap, currently set
for 100VAC (Japan), about 24" x 18" x 14")
Free Pickup in Berkeley; I don't want to attempt to ship it.
28 Oct
28 Oct
10:03 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On 10/28/2012 09:19 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:
That would probably wet plate photography. People are
definitely
still doing it, and getting some incredibly beautiful results.
I'll bet that if you search hard enough, you can still find people who
make tintypes.
--Chuck
2:02 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On 10/29/2012 01:35 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I've wondered if anyone makes daguerreotypes nowadays. The thought of
boiling mercury for developing might put some people off.
(It's also akin to the way silverplating was done before
electroplating--coat the object with an amalgam of silver then boil the
mercury off. The lives of the workers so employed were apparently
noticeably shorter than the average worker.)
--Chuck
I'll bet that if you search hard enough, you
can still find people who
make tintypes.
or EVEN people who run CP/M!!! 
2:31 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 02:02:42PM -0700, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 10/29/2012 01:35 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
Yes. The U.S civil war re-enactment folks do.
I bet I know someone on this list who does it. ;-)
- Diane
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
Nowadays tar can compress using yesterdays latest technologies!
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I've wondered if anyone makes daguerreotypes nowadays. The thought of
boiling mercury for developing might put some people off. I'll bet that if you search hard enough, you
can still find people who
make tintypes.
or EVEN people who run CP/M!!!
2:37 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
At 2:02 PM -0700 10/29/12, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I've wondered if anyone makes daguerreotypes
nowadays. The thought
of boiling mercury for developing might put some people off.
(It's also akin to the way silverplating was done before
electroplating--coat the object with an amalgam of silver then boil
the mercury off. The lives of the workers so employed were
apparently noticeably shorter than the average worker.)
--Chuck
Yes. Name an old process, and I can find someone doing it without
too much effort. Though they also tend to have tweaked the processes
such that they're safer. Though I believe daguerreotype's are one of
the least safe. Good ventilation and safety measures are a must!
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
3:21 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On Oct 29, 2012, at 4:37 PM, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>
wrote:
At 2:02 PM -0700 10/29/12, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Palladium printer checking in.
-Ryan Brooks
I've wondered if anyone makes daguerreotypes
nowadays. The thought
of boiling mercury for developing might put some people off.
(It's also akin to the way silverplating was done before
electroplating--coat the object with an amalgam of silver then boil
the mercury off. The lives of the workers so employed were
apparently noticeably shorter than the average worker.)
--Chuck
Yes. Name an old process, and I can find someone doing it without
too much effort. Though they also tend to have tweaked the processes
such that they're safer. Though I believe daguerreotype's are one of
the least safe. Good ventilation and safety measures are a must!
Zane
2:20 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
At 1:35 PM -0700 10/29/12, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012, Chuck Guzis wrote:
It would be interesting to know which is harder to find... I know at
least two Tintype photographers, and I have a kit in the closet for
making them.
I also have at least two CP/M capable systems in the garage, neither
of which has been booted in well over a decade.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
I'll bet that if you search hard enough, you
can still find people who
make tintypes.
or EVEN people who run CP/M!!!
2:48 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
I'll bet that if you search hard enough, you can
still find people who
make tintypes.
or EVEN people who run CP/M!!!
3:28 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
I'll bet
that if you search hard enough, you can still find people who
make tintypes.
or EVEN people who run CP/M!!!
4:23 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
>> It would be interesting to know which is
harder to find... I know at
>> least two Tintype photographers, and I have a kit in the closet for
>> making them.
>curious about what's in a kit for making Tintype photographers
On Mon, 29 Oct 2012, Zane H. Healy wrote:
It's probably easiest just to give you the
link...
http://www.rockaloid.com/products.html#tintype
That looks like FUN!
'course that's for making tintypes, not for making tintype photographers,
. . . (starts with someting similar to, "care to come up and see my
etchings?. . . ")
5:46 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
At 4:23 PM -0700 10/29/12, Fred Cisin wrote:
See what happens when I type in a hurry...
My big holdup has been getting a holder and finding the time on a
sunny day to try it out. IIRC, it won't work in a standard 4x5 film
holder, though one could be modified for use.
As for etchings... Well, I am researching what it would take to make
Photogravure's.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
>> It
would be interesting to know which is harder to find... I know at
>> least two Tintype photographers, and I have a kit in the closet for
>> making them.
>curious about what's in a kit for making Tintype photographers
On Mon, 29 Oct 2012, Zane H. Healy wrote:
It's probably easiest just to give you the
link...
http://www.rockaloid.com/products.html#tintype
That looks like FUN!
'course that's for making tintypes, not for making tintype photographers,
. . . (starts with someting similar to, "care to come up and see my
etchings?. . . ")
1:13 p.m.
New subject: OT: More photographic (Was: Surplus DE9F to 8P8C adapters available
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
I don't know.
You do know (see my other reply...)
Photographic flash on newer (1950s and above) cameras used
a tiny coaxial connector called "PC". But the OTHER end,
Trivia
quesiton : What does PC stand for here? Obviously, right here, it means 5150
Maybe. Or maybe the register that points to the next instruction to be
executed.
-tony
4437
days inactive
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48 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk -
db＠db.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jws＠jwsss.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
robert＠irrelevant.com -
ryan＠hack.net -
tothwolf＠concentric.net -
wackyvorlon＠me.com