At 04:25 PM 8/21/01 -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: In the early 80s I worked at Sight and Sound Music Software, which had titles for the C-64 like Kawasaki Music Synthesizer and Kawasaki Rhythm Rocker. Ryo was already an established musician, and still is. See http://www.google.com/search?q=ryo+kawasaki . However, he also coded for the C-64 without an assembler. He just used the debugger. There was no source code. We first figured this out when we asked him how he did a certain effect, and he started reciting the hex opcodes. He didn't really know the mnemonics, he just memorized how to create the hex to match the opcodes he wanted. - John