11 May
2015
11 May
'15
3:01 a.m.
Hi all,
I've got a VAX4000/300 lately to save it from the dumpster.
I've cleaned the machine an powered up. It taked several tries
to get the PSU working stable, it shut off itself the first ~10 tries
but works stable now.
(Yes I know all about forming electrolytic caps but have my own point of
view regarding supplying under voltage to switching psu's)
The machine is doing the Post until the final displayed letter "3" in
the LED Display.
The machine is equipped with 64MB RAM, an KA670, and on the QBUS with the
KZQSA DSSI and the TK70 Controllers and additional am CMD CQD200.
Disks are 2x RF31 one RF71 and a TK70.
I currently have no console device connected to the machine, must crimp a
MMJ cable first..
The Problem ist, that one of the RF31 Disks doesnt go to ready and the
Fault LED lights up.
What can I do to further investigate the Drive fault?
Are DSSI disks starting up themselves after applying Power and ACLO or
has the controller to supply a spindle start command?
re those disks known to have sticking heads sometimes?
I would do some test on the drive w/o the machine since I don't have any
test equipment in the room where the machine now is..
Any hints?
If anyone has a spare RF31 or RF71 (or similar) to sell or additional MS670
memory for an hobbyist price, please mail me. I'm in germany, europe.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
11 May
11 May
11:23 a.m.
Holm Tiffe wrote:
Hi all,
I've got a VAX4000/300 lately to save it from the dumpster.
I've cleaned the machine an powered up. It taked several tries
to get the PSU working stable, it shut off itself the first ~10 tries
but works stable now.
(Yes I know all about forming electrolytic caps but have my own point of
view regarding supplying under voltage to switching psu's)
The machine is doing the Post until the final displayed letter "3" in
the LED Display.
The machine is equipped with 64MB RAM, an KA670, and on the QBUS with the
KZQSA DSSI and the TK70 Controllers and additional am CMD CQD200.
Disks are 2x RF31 one RF71 and a TK70.
I currently have no console device connected to the machine, must crimp a
MMJ cable first..
The Problem ist, that one of the RF31 Disks doesnt go to ready and the
Fault LED lights up.
What can I do to further investigate the Drive fault?
Are DSSI disks starting up themselves after applying Power and ACLO or
has the controller to supply a spindle start command?
re those disks known to have sticking heads sometimes?
I would do some test on the drive w/o the machine since I don't have any
test equipment in the room where the machine now is..
Any hints?
If anyone has a spare RF31 or RF71 (or similar) to sell or additional MS670
memory for an hobbyist price, please mail me. I'm in germany, europe.
Regards,
Holm
..have done some experiments with the disk. I've connected it to its front
paneel and an PC Powersupply, +12,+5 and GND.
After Power up the Fault, ithe Run and the write Protect LED are lit.
If I connect ACLO shortly to +5V, the Drive spins up, all 3 LEDs are going
off and then write protect reappears (Button pressed).
If I press the RUN/READY button I hear the drive step slowly for approx 15
seconds, then the red Fault LED reapears and the drive stops stepping.
If I start the Drive with the RUN/READY Button pressed, the drive starts
that slow stepping and then the Fault light goes on too. The drive keeps
spinning in both cases.
Is that behavior normal? I've never had todo with DSSI Drives before.
What could be the fault on this drive, does it just need a reformat?
Is there a sort of a mainenace programm to do this, hopefully standalone
from a Tape or ibetter from the KZQSA ROM so?
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
11:38 a.m.
KZQSA is Qbus SCSI board with SII chip. It was used for CDROMs and such. No
DSSI here.
KFQSA is Qbus DSSI.
KA670 has built in DSSI controller, so the RF drives should be connected to
it.
DSSI drives are intelligent and can be accessed from VAX firmware utility.
I have done this with KFQSA, KA650, and RF71. Drive has internal operating
system with a command prompt, diagnostics, etc.
12:08 p.m.
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Charles Dickman <chd at chdickman.com> wrote:
DSSI drives are intelligent and can be accessed from VAX firmware utility.
I have done this with KFQSA, KA650, and RF71. Drive has internal operating
system with a command prompt, diagnostics, etc.
The RF drive built in utilities and diagnostics are described here:
RF Series Integrated Storage Element User Guide
Order Number: EK-RF72D-UG-008
http://manx.classiccmp.org/collections/mds-199909/cd3/disk/rf72dug8.pdf
Note however if the fault LED is on you might not be able to access
the drive at all to run the utilities and diagnostics:
Theory of Operation 2-33
If the controller portion of the ISE is not
functioning, the fault LED on the drive module and the
fault LED on the operator control panel turn on (Figure
2-19). Also, the ISE is not visible on the DSSI bus.
The failing component, in this case, is the drive
module itself, because it houses the controller
electronics.
12:43 p.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Charles Dickman
<chd at chdickman.com> wrote:
Yes, I have this document open in xpdf...an I *think* that not the
controller, but something with the drive itself is bad.
I think the controller is ok since it clickers a time with the heads..
Can I check what's wron just with the console chevron prompt w/o opreating
system?#The Drive has the ID 0 so I think VMS resides there, next thing is
that for sure the licenses run out for sure and I know almost nothing about
VMS.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
DSSI drives are intelligent and can be accessed from VAX firmware utility.
I have done this with KFQSA, KA650, and RF71. Drive has internal operating
system with a command prompt, diagnostics, etc.
The RF drive built in utilities and diagnostics are described here:
RF Series Integrated Storage Element User Guide
Order Number: EK-RF72D-UG-008
http://manx.classiccmp.org/collections/mds-199909/cd3/disk/rf72dug8.pdf
Note however if the fault LED is on you might not be able to access
the drive at all to run the utilities and diagnostics:
Theory of Operation 2-33
If the controller portion of the ISE is not
functioning, the fault LED on the drive module and the
fault LED on the operator control panel turn on (Figure
2-19). Also, the ISE is not visible on the DSSI bus.
The failing component, in this case, is the drive
module itself, because it houses the controller
electronics.
12:54 p.m.
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
Can I check what's wron just with the console chevron prompt w/o opreating
system?#The Drive has the ID 0 so I think VMS resides there, next thing is
that for sure the licenses run out for sure and I know almost nothing about
VMS.
Maybe something like this. If the unit does not show up in the SHOW
DSSI list then there might not be much you can do with it.
>> SHOW DSSI
>> SET HOST/DUP/DSSI 0
Task Name? PARAMS
PARAMS> SHOW CONF
Last know unit failure xxxxx
2:37 p.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Holm Tiffe <holm
at freibergnet.de> wrote:
Ok, I'll try that...in the meantime I've connected a terminal and the unit
is shoing up on the DSSI bus.
I'm also now know what this other card is from them I tought it where
something like an SCSI Controller, that is a kind of terminal multiplexer
like an DHV11...
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Can I check what's wron just with the console chevron prompt w/o opreating
system?#The Drive has the ID 0 so I think VMS resides there, next thing is
that for sure the licenses run out for sure and I know almost nothing about
VMS.
Maybe something like this. If the unit does not show up in the SHOW
DSSI list then there might not be much you can do with it.
>> SHOW DSSI
>> SET HOST/DUP/DSSI 0
Task Name? PARAMS
PARAMS> SHOW CONF
Last know unit failure xxxxx
2:57 p.m.
On May 11, 2015 11:37 AM, "Holm Tiffe" <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
I'm also now know what this other card is from them I tought it where
something like an SCSI Controller, that is a kind of terminal multiplexer
like an DHV11...
Most likely either an M3118 CXA16 or an M3119 CXY08.
Those are pretty common in BA213/BA215 and BA430/BA440/BA441 chassis VAX
systems.
3:44 p.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
On May 11, 2015 11:37 AM, "Holm Tiffe"
<holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
I'll look next time what exactly that is. Wondered about the cables in a
box, one sife SCSI50 and then a bunch of RS232 on the other side, I'm sure
they will fit there..
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
I'm also now know what this other card is from them I tought it where
something like an SCSI Controller, that is a kind of terminal multiplexer
like an DHV11...
Most likely either an M3118 CXA16 or an M3119 CXY08.
Those are pretty common in BA213/BA215 and BA430/BA440/BA441 chassis VAX
systems.
7:53 p.m.
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
I'll look next time what exactly that is. Wondered about the cables in a
box, one sife SCSI50 and then a bunch of RS232 on the other side, I'm sure
they will fit there..
A BC19N cable has a 50-pin AMP connector on one end and breaks out to
4 DB25 male connectors on the other end. You would attach 2 of those
cables to an 8 port M3119 CXY08.
The CXY08 can operate in either DHV11 or DHU11 modes. Essentially the
same thing as an M3107 DHQ11.
3:46 p.m.
Holm Tiffe wrote:
Glen Slick wrote:
... unit is inoperative, error code A508(x).
Now I have to find out waht this means..
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Holm Tiffe
<holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
Ok, I'll try that...in the meantime I've connected a terminal and the unit
is shoing up on the DSSI bus.
I'm also now know what this other card is from them I tought it where
something like an SCSI Controller, that is a kind of terminal multiplexer
like an DHV11...
Regards,
Holm
Can I check what's wron just with the console chevron prompt w/o opreating
system?#The Drive has the ID 0 so I think VMS resides there, next thing is
that for sure the licenses run out for sure and I know almost nothing about
VMS.
Maybe something like this. If the unit does not show up in the SHOW
DSSI list then there might not be much you can do with it.
>> SHOW DSSI
>> SET HOST/DUP/DSSI 0
Task Name? PARAMS
PARAMS> SHOW CONF
Last know unit failure xxxxx
4:28 p.m.
Holm Tiffe wrote:
Holm Tiffe wrote:
...there is a dutch site that means that the head assembly ist stuck..
I'll look into that drive tomorrow, maybe I can fix this.
(not the first drive, but I'm unhappy that I have to open it).
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Glen Slick wrote:
... unit is inoperative, error code A508(x).
Now I have to find out waht this means..
Regards,
Holm On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Holm Tiffe
<holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
Ok, I'll try that...in the meantime I've connected a terminal and the unit
is shoing up on the DSSI bus.
I'm also now know what this other card is from them I tought it where
something like an SCSI Controller, that is a kind of terminal multiplexer
like an DHV11...
Regards,
Holm
Can I check what's wron just with the console chevron prompt w/o opreating
system?#The Drive has the ID 0 so I think VMS resides there, next thing is
that for sure the licenses run out for sure and I know almost nothing about
VMS.
Maybe something like this. If the unit does not show up in the SHOW
DSSI list then there might not be much you can do with it.
>> SHOW DSSI
>> SET HOST/DUP/DSSI 0
Task Name? PARAMS
PARAMS> SHOW CONF
Last know unit failure xxxxx 
5:16 p.m.
On 11 May 2015 at 21:28, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
Holm Tiffe wrote:
...there is a dutch site that means that the head assembly ist stuck..
I'll look into that drive tomorrow, maybe I can fix this.
(not the first drive, but I'm unhappy that I have to open it).
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
As it is Dutch I may not be able to read it, but if you could post the link
it might still be helpful.
Thanks
Rob
Holm Tiffe wrote:
> Glen Slick wrote:
>
> > On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Can I check what's wron just with the console chevron prompt w/o
opreating
> > > system?#The Drive has the ID 0 so
I think VMS resides there, next
thing is
> > > that for sure the licenses run out
for sure and I know almost
nothing about
> > > VMS.
> > >
> >
> > Maybe something like this. If the unit does not show up in the SHOW
> > DSSI list then there might not be much you can do with it.
> >
> > >>> SHOW DSSI
> > >>> SET HOST/DUP/DSSI 0
> > Task Name? PARAMS
> > PARAMS> SHOW CONF
> > Last know unit failure xxxxx
>
> Ok, I'll try that...in the meantime I've connected a terminal and the
unit
> is shoing up on the DSSI bus.
> I'm also now know what this other card is from them I tought it where
> something like an SCSI Controller, that is a kind of terminal
multiplexer
like an
DHV11...
Regards,
Holm
... unit is inoperative, error code A508(x).
Now I have to find out waht this means..
Regards,
Holm
12 May
12 May
1:14 a.m.
Jarratt RMA wrote:
[..]
As it is Dutch I may not be able to read it, but if you could post the link
it might still be helpful.
Thanks
Rob
:-)
http://www.josvandijken.nl/computer_dec_microvax_3400.php
The first "Log" window shows what is the problem (A508) and the text
after that window says that the disk got some pedagogic kick and after that
it decided to work again..
Can't read dutch, but it has similarities to german. Google translates
it to something unreadable..
I'll try that pedagogic kick first..
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
... unit is inoperative, error code A508(x).
Now I have to find out waht this means..
Regards,
Holm
...there is a dutch site that means that the head assembly ist stuck..
I'll look into that drive tomorrow, maybe I can fix this.
(not the first drive, but I'm unhappy that I have to open it).
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
4:13 a.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. A508 SOLVED!
Holm Tiffe wrote:
Jarratt RMA wrote:
[..]
As it is Dutch I may not be able to read it, but if you could post the link
it might still be helpful.
Thanks
Rob
:-)
http://www.josvandijken.nl/computer_dec_microvax_3400.php
The first "Log" window shows what is the problem (A508) and the text
after that window says that the disk got some pedagogic kick and after that
it decided to work again..
Can't read dutch, but it has similarities to german. Google translates
it to something unreadable..
I'll try that pedagogic kick first..
Regards,
Holm
Yes guys, it's true.
I've successfully "repaired" the drive with an careful hit from a
rubber-hammer! It seems that this way a stick headassemble gets free'd up
again.
The drive is online now, no more Fault LED.
I'm currently let the drive exerciser run on it.
Kind Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
... unit is inoperative, error code A508(x).
Now I have to find out waht this means..
Regards,
Holm
...there is a dutch site that means that the head assembly ist stuck..
I'll look into that drive tomorrow, maybe I can fix this.
(not the first drive, but I'm unhappy that I have to open it).
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
5:55 a.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. final Question..
Holm Tiffe wrote:
Holm Tiffe wrote:
Ok, the disk passed the tests with ok.
I've tried to boot something from DIA0 DIA1 and DIA2..nosurchfile so the
disks seems to be empty.
Now I think about a reformat of the drives, but there is no such procedure.
There is an erase program that should rewrite eachs sector with several
patterns. I'll think that it will do the job.
Does an format programm exists "in the field" or is something like thisi
proprietary to DEC?
Regards,
Holm
..going to fix the psu now (H7874-00)
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Jarratt RMA wrote:
[..]
:-)
http://www.josvandijken.nl/computer_dec_microvax_3400.php
The first "Log" window shows what is the problem (A508) and the text
after that window says that the disk got some pedagogic kick and after that
it decided to work again..
Can't read dutch, but it has similarities to german. Google translates
it to something unreadable..
I'll try that pedagogic kick first..
Regards,
Holm
Yes guys, it's true.
I've successfully "repaired" the drive with an careful hit from a
rubber-hammer! It seems that this way a stick headassemble gets free'd up
again.
The drive is online now, no more Fault LED.
I'm currently let the drive exerciser run on it.
Kind Regards,
Holm
>
>
> ... unit is inoperative, error code A508(x).
>
> Now I have to find out waht this means..
>
> Regards,
>
> Holm
...there is a dutch site that means that the head assembly ist stuck..
I'll look into that drive tomorrow, maybe I can fix this.
(not the first drive, but I'm unhappy that I have to open it).
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
As it is Dutch I may not be able to read it, but if you could post the link
it might still be helpful.
Thanks
Rob 
8:04 a.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. final Question..
On 2015-05-12 11:55, Holm Tiffe wrote:
Ok, the disk passed the tests with ok.
Excellent.
I've tried to boot something from DIA0 DIA1 and
DIA2..nosurchfile so the
disks seems to be empty.
Oh Well...
Now I think about a reformat of the drives, but there
is no such procedure.
There is an erase program that should rewrite eachs sector with several
patterns. I'll think that it will do the job.
Does an format programm exists "in the field" or is something like thisi
proprietary to DEC?
Why would you want to reformat the drives?
That said, I would expect such a utility to exist in the firmware of the
drive.
But normally, since these drives remap bad sectors automatically, you
should normally just go on using them, and everything is ok.
Johnny
8:33 a.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. final Question..
Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2015-05-12 11:55, Holm Tiffe wrote:
The exerciser showed some correctable soft errors, wich is pretty much
normal I think. Reformating the drive should simply "freshen up" the data
tracks but erase should do the same in this regard.
Since the distks aren't containing anything interresting, it would be the
right time now to do a reformat.
I think the head assembly has an voice coil engine anyways, so servo tracks
are needed to do the positioning. It is clear that they aren't affected from
a reformat...
I've changed some Nippon Chemicon electrolytics from the PSU now. All
330?F 25V Caps are bad, an 1000?F 25V too, where other Caps from the same
company are still ok. I've changed the 330? Caps against some good Rubycons
470? 25V from which I have "masses".
The construktor of that H7874 Supply is an dump asshole, no one should ever
construct switching PSU's in a way that it makes it impossible to desolder
broken electrolytic Caps! One module with 2 x 330?F Caps is build this way!
I had to pull of that bad caps, ..brown residues from the electrolyte below
them on the pcb. Cleaned the PCB with alcohol and soldered the new caps from
above, briged them with an 1206 X7R each.
Will test the PSU now...
[..]
Machine is working now as expected. Currently it is "erasing" the Disk0..
53 Minutes...
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Ok, the disk passed the tests with ok.
Excellent.
I've tried to boot something from DIA0 DIA1
and DIA2..nosurchfile so the
disks seems to be empty.
Oh Well...
Now I think about a reformat of the drives, but
there is no such procedure.
There is an erase program that should rewrite eachs sector with several
patterns. I'll think that it will do the job.
Does an format programm exists "in the field" or is something like thisi
proprietary to DEC?
Why would you want to reformat the drives?
That said, I would expect such a utility to exist in the firmware of the
drive.
But normally, since these drives remap bad sectors automatically, you
should normally just go on using them, and everything is ok.
Johnny
1:28 p.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. final Question..
Holm Tiffe wrote:
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Johnny the success proves that I'm right. After "erasing" the disk the
exerciser run found no soft read errors anymore. "Soft error read count 0".
BTW: This was the disk that I've hammered :-)
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
On 2015-05-12 11:55, Holm Tiffe wrote:
The exerciser showed some correctable soft errors, wich is pretty much
normal I think. Reformating the drive should simply "freshen up" the data
tracks but erase should do the same in this regard.
Since the distks aren't containing anything interresting, it would be the
right time now to do a reformat.
I think the head assembly has an voice coil engine anyways, so servo tracks
are needed to do the positioning. It is clear that they aren't affected from
a reformat...
Ok, the disk passed the tests with ok.
Excellent.
I've tried to boot something from DIA0 DIA1
and DIA2..nosurchfile so the
disks seems to be empty.
Oh Well...
Now I think about a reformat of the drives, but
there is no such procedure.
There is an erase program that should rewrite eachs sector with several
patterns. I'll think that it will do the job.
Does an format programm exists "in the field" or is something like thisi
proprietary to DEC?
Why would you want to reformat the drives?
That said, I would expect such a utility to exist in the firmware of the
drive.
But normally, since these drives remap bad sectors automatically, you
should normally just go on using them, and everything is ok.
Johnny 
1:39 p.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. final Question..
On May 12, 2015, at 1:28 PM, Holm Tiffe <holm at
freibergnet.de> wrote:
Johnny the success proves that I'm right. After "erasing" the disk the
exerciser run found no soft read errors anymore. "Soft error read count 0".
BTW: This was the disk that I've hammered :-)
Servo data is unaffected by formatting. If you have read errors, simply overwriting the
drive may be sufficient, but certainly formatting would. That assumes such an operation
even exists; in some cases, when people say ?format? they simply mean pattern-checking the
drive and/or creating a new empty file system on it. For example, in PDP-11 disks, a
?real? format operation that does more than just rewrite the data appears only on a few
drive models: RP03 and RK05 do, most others don?t. Some MSCP drives also, I think, but
those only via magic code running on the controller, not from the OS.
On drives with dedicated servo tracks (RP04 family for example) the servo head is only a
read head. But in all cases, servo writing is done on specialized machines, and only at
the factory.
paul
...
The exerciser showed some correctable soft errors, wich is pretty much
normal I think. Reformating the drive should simply "freshen up" the data
tracks but erase should do the same in this regard.
Since the distks aren't containing anything interresting, it would be the
right time now to do a reformat.
I think the head assembly has an voice coil engine anyways, so servo tracks
are needed to do the positioning. It is clear that they aren't affected from
a reformat...
3:04 p.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. final Question..
Paul Koning wrote:
Yes. Thats similar to that what I wrote above.
In the case of the RFxx Disks, DSSI Disks, you can only run the local to
the drive commands and there isn't any format option. SCSI drives can
(mostly) reformat themselves and possibly with different sector sizes.
But this doesnt affect the servo tracks, that's pretty clear.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
On May 12, 2015, at 1:28 PM, Holm Tiffe <holm
at freibergnet.de> wrote:
Johnny the success proves that I'm right. After "erasing" the disk the
exerciser run found no soft read errors anymore. "Soft error read count 0".
BTW: This was the disk that I've hammered :-)
Servo data is unaffected by formatting. If you have read errors, simply overwriting the
drive may be sufficient, but certainly formatting would. That assumes such an operation
even exists; in some cases, when people say ?format? they simply mean pattern-checking the
drive and/or creating a new empty file system on it. For example, in PDP-11 disks, a
?real? format operation that does more than just rewrite the data appears only on a few
drive models: RP03 and RK05 do, most others don?t. Some MSCP drives also, I think, but
those only via magic code running on the controller, not from the OS.
On drives with dedicated servo tracks (RP04 family for example) the servo head is only a
read head. But in all cases, servo writing is done on specialized machines, and only at
the factory.
paul
...
The exerciser showed some correctable soft errors, wich is pretty much
normal I think. Reformating the drive should simply "freshen up" the data
tracks but erase should do the same in this regard.
Since the distks aren't containing anything interresting, it would be the
right time now to do a reformat.
I think the head assembly has an voice coil engine anyways, so servo tracks
are needed to do the positioning. It is clear that they aren't affected from
a reformat...
4:31 p.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. final Question..
I can really sympathise with you on the PSU front. I tried to repair one of
these, but it was designed in such a way that it was really hard to get at
the caps to remove them for testing. My problem was that even when I did
get to the big Sprague one I couldn't desolder it, presumably there was a
large track/plane taking all the heat away. In the end I gave that PSU away
(along with another working one) to someone who is much better than me.
Although I don't know if he has fixed it yet.
Regards
Rob
On 12 May 2015 at 13:33, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
Johnny Billquist wrote:
The exerciser showed some correctable soft errors, wich is pretty much
normal I think. Reformating the drive should simply "freshen up" the data
tracks but erase should do the same in this regard.
Since the distks aren't containing anything interresting, it would be the
right time now to do a reformat.
I think the head assembly has an voice coil engine anyways, so servo tracks
are needed to do the positioning. It is clear that they aren't affected
from
a reformat...
I've changed some Nippon Chemicon electrolytics from the PSU now. All
330?F 25V Caps are bad, an 1000?F 25V too, where other Caps from the same
company are still ok. I've changed the 330? Caps against some good Rubycons
470? 25V from which I have "masses".
The construktor of that H7874 Supply is an dump asshole, no one should ever
construct switching PSU's in a way that it makes it impossible to desolder
broken electrolytic Caps! One module with 2 x 330?F Caps is build this way!
I had to pull of that bad caps, ..brown residues from the electrolyte below
them on the pcb. Cleaned the PCB with alcohol and soldered the new caps
from
above, briged them with an 1206 X7R each.
Will test the PSU now...
[..]
Machine is working now as expected. Currently it is "erasing" the Disk0..
53 Minutes...
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
On 2015-05-12 11:55, Holm Tiffe wrote:
procedure.
Ok, the disk passed the tests with ok.
Excellent.
I've tried to boot something from DIA0 DIA1
and DIA2..nosurchfile so the
disks seems to be empty.
Oh Well...
>Now I think about a reformat of the drives, but there is no such >There is an erase program that should rewrite
eachs sector with several
>patterns. I'll think that it will do the job.
>Does an format programm exists "in the field" or is something like
thisi
proprietary to DEC?
Why would you want to reformat the drives?
That said, I would expect such a utility to exist in the firmware of the
drive.
But normally, since these drives remap bad sectors automatically, you
should normally just go on using them, and everything is ok.
Johnny
13 May
13 May
2:13 a.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. final Question..
Jarratt RMA wrote:
I can really sympathise with you on the PSU front. I
tried to repair one of
these, but it was designed in such a way that it was really hard to get at
the caps to remove them for testing. My problem was that even when I did
get to the big Sprague one I couldn't desolder it, presumably there was a
large track/plane taking all the heat away.
I haven't even tried to desolder this rectangular Sprague 6800?/20V cap,
since in most cases bad caps in a PSU aren't the big ones, but the small.
I've leaved the entire input section with the big HV Filter Caps alone, if
one of them fails you can easily see that.
Same thing at the output caps, and the big rectangular Sprague is one.
You can desolder such thing using a Hot Air gun (SMD soldering) helping
the soldering iron to heat things up.
I would change thios cap if the PSU would still misbehave after repair,
but it works flawlessly.
But the cause for my rant where two other caps. On one of the two power
Modules" in the PSU sitting two 330?F Caps near thogether but one couldn't
reach the bottom of the PCB since the big power Transistors sitting below
the PCB iscrewed on to a heat sink and are soldered to the PCB from bottom.
There is not enough space around the Transistor Pads on the top of the
PCB to desolder them properly, so you can't dismount the Transistors and
can't dismount the heat sink at all which preventy you to change parts.
That's the thing that I call a design failure. Bad, idiotic.
In the end I gave that PSU away
(along with another working one) to someone who is much better than me.
Although I don't know if he has fixed it yet.
Regards
Rob
I do such things all day long, reparing industrial electronics for
customers..
Regards,
Holm
PS: Please answer at bottom.
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
12 May
12 May
3:04 p.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. A508 SOLVED!
Am 12.05.15 um 10:13 schrieb Holm Tiffe:
I've successfully "repaired" the drive
with an careful hit from a
rubber-hammer! It seems that this way a stick headassemble gets free'd up
again.
Yes. This is the standard repair method for IBM 066x SCSI disks...
Did it several times.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
3:07 p.m.
New subject: Dead RF31 DSSI Disk.. A508 SOLVED!
Jochen Kunz wrote:
Am 12.05.15 um 10:13 schrieb Holm Tiffe:
Huh? I don't remember that I ever had this kind of problem with 0663s but I had
one that wasn't sure what type itself was, sometimes an IBM0663, sometimes an
WDxxxx...
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
I've successfully "repaired" the
drive with an careful hit from a
rubber-hammer! It seems that this way a stick headassemble gets free'd up
again.
Yes. This is the standard repair method for IBM 066x SCSI disks...
Did it several times.
--
tsch??,
Jochen 
10:50 a.m.
On Tue, 12 May 2015, Holm Tiffe wrote:
The first "Log" window shows what is the
problem (A508) and the text
after that window says that the disk got some pedagogic kick and after that
it decided to work again..
. . .
I'll try that pedagogic kick first..
When I got my California Community College teaching credentials,
(1980, when it was state run, before they let college administrators
declare themselves competent to teach anything they wanted!), one of
the requirements was to take a few graduate courses in education.
In those classes, for the PEDAGOGY requirement, they never taught
us the KICK UPSIDE THE HEAD. We were expected to learn that later,
on the job.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
11 May
11 May
7:40 p.m.
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
... unit is inoperative, error code A508(x).
Now I have to find out what this means..
There is supposed to be an EK-RF72D-SV RF31/RF72 Service Guide manual
which would list error codes. I haven't found any copies of that
online anywhere.
12:38 p.m.
Charles Dickman wrote:
KZQSA is Qbus SCSI board with SII chip. It was used
for CDROMs and such. No
DSSI here.
KFQSA is Qbus DSSI.
KA670 has built in DSSI controller, so the RF drives should be connected to
it.
DSSI drives are intelligent and can be accessed from VAX firmware utility.
I have done this with KFQSA, KA650, and RF71. Drive has internal operating
system with a command prompt, diagnostics, etc.
Ok.
Can that be run w/o VMS from the chevron prompt?
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
3358
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27 comments
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participants (8)
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bqt＠update.uu.se -
chd＠chdickman.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
holm＠freibergnet.de -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com