31 Jul
2009
31 Jul
'09
6:24 p.m.
Hi guys,
I seem to recall there being a few folks here with copies of old
Philips Semiconductor, Signetics and Mullard databooks kicking around...
Basically, I've dug my old Ground Control UTA-1 "Universal Teletext
Adapter" out of the cupboard, and I'd rather like to make it work on my
Linux box. I've found some details on the CITAC chip that controls the
tuning, and a bit more info on the tuner module, so at this point I can
connect it up, get an I2C ACK from the CITAC, and tune in a channel.
Problem is, my datasheet for the SAA5240A Teletext controller chip is
either an early release, or is just plain incomplete. For a start,
there's a reference to Ghost Rows Mode, which from what I can tell
allows access to the "extended" Teletext data rows which carry the
Fastext page-jumping data.
Does anyone have a copy of the "SAA5240 user's manual" to hand?
FWIW, I suspect the SAA5243 manual would be just as good, the register
maps seem to be mostly identical...
Thanks.
--
Phil.
philpem at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
1 Aug
1 Aug
5:52 p.m.
Does anyone have a copy of the "SAA5240
user's manual" to hand?
FWIW, I suspect the SAA5243 manual would be just as good, the register
maps seem to be mostly identical...
I certainly have the SAA5243 manual around somewhere (it'll take me a
little time to find it). AS ever I don't have a scanner, and it's a
fairly thick manual, so can you let me know what specifically you're
looking for.
-tony
10:40 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
I certainly have the SAA5243 manual around somewhere
(it'll take me a
little time to find it). AS ever I don't have a scanner, and it's a
fairly thick manual, so can you let me know what specifically you're
looking for.
I think I can figure out >95% of the chip's functionality as-is, but at
this point:
* Ghost Rows mode (the 5243 appears to call this "Extension Packet
Enable" in the R1/Mode register): how does it affect the memory map --
i.e. where are the additional rows stored?
To read them, do you just specify Row 30 (say) in R9 (Active Row)
before reading from R11 (Active Data)?
Is there any effect on the function of the Bank Select and Acq
Circuit bits (which seem to provide the upper address bits) if Extension
Packets are enabled (the datasheet says you need a 2K RAM if EPE is on,
or a 1K without -- which suggests that the upper address outputs might
not work as they do in "normal" mode)?
* R1 register: permitted states for the T1 and T0 bits. What do the 4
settings (00/01/10/11) do / which ones are valid?
* R1 register: TCS -- "Text composite sync or direct sync select". Am
I right in thinking this just selects whether the chip syncs the video
output to the CVBS input or the signal passed to the TCS/SCS pin?
* R2 register: Start Column bits. All the datasheet says is "Start
column for page request data"... so what do these do?
Cheers,
--
Phil.
philpem at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
2 Aug
2 Aug
8:45 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
It aLLOCATES 2k OF ram FOR EACH page -- and it's not contiguous. Assuming
you have an 8K esternal RAM chip (which is the normal thing to use), then
it's A12 that's used to select between the normal (A12=0) and extension
packets (A12=1). A11 and A10 are used to allow you to load and display up
to 4 pages at the same time.
I certainly have the SAA5243 manual around
somewhere (it'll take me a
little time to find it). AS ever I don't have a scanner, and it's a
fairly thick manual, so can you let me know what specifically you're
looking for.
I think I can figure out >95% of the chip's functionality as-is, but at
this point:
* Ghost Rows mode (the 5243 appears to call this "Extension Packet
Enable" in the R1/Mode register): how does it affect the memory map --
i.e. where are the additional rows stored? To read them, do you just specify Row 30 (say) in
R9 (Active Row)
before reading from R11 (Active Data)?
No You read the 'other' page of RAM as I've just mentioned. The exact
format of that 1K block is given in the manual, but here's a summary :
Row
0-14 : Packet 26 Sequence 0-14 (Enhanded Dispaly and VPT)
15 : Packet 28 Sequence 2 (COnditional Access)
16-19 : Packet 17 Seqeunce 0-3 (Linked pages)
20 : Packet 24 (Page Extension)
21 : Packet 25 (Page Extension)
22 : Packet 28 Sequence 0 (Data Designation + Colour Def)
23 : Packet 30 Magazine 8 (stored in block 4 only -- Broadcasting Data
Sevice Packet)
24 : Packet 28 Sequence 1 (Character Set Designation)
25 : Not Used
Is there any effect on the function of the Bank
Select and Acq
Circuit bits (which seem to provide the upper address bits) if Extension
Packets are enabled (the datasheet says you need a 2K RAM if EPE is on,
or a 1K without -- which suggests that the upper address outputs might
not work as they do in "normal" mode)?
See above.
* R1 register: permitted states for the T1 and T0 bits. What do the 4
settings (00/01/10/11) do / which ones are valid?
All are Valid :
00 Interlaced 312/313 linea
01 non-interlaced 312/313 lines
10 non-interlaced 312/312 lines
11 Tioming slaved from another sync source
* R1 register: TCS -- "Text composite sync or direct sync select". Am
I right in thinking this just selects whether the chip syncs the video
output to the CVBS input or the signal passed to the TCS/SCS pin?
Basically, yes. It controls th TCS/ SCS/ output buffer. If you're using
it with a SAA5231 (and I suspect you are), it determins where the sync to
the TV is TCS (TCS ON = 1) or broadcast sync (TCS ON = 0)
* R2 register: Start Column bits. All the datasheet says is "Start
column for page request data"... so what do these do?
They define the position first digit of the page number to look for.
There are 7 'digits' numbered 0-6, each of 5 bits (which you write into
R3). Bit 4 is a 'Do Care' bit for the rest of this digit (so you can, for
example, just grab the first page 1XX to come along by having some don't
cares). Digit 0 is A Hold/ bit (bit 3) and a 3 bit 'magazine' number.
Others are essentially 4 bit values (bits 3-0) in order page 10s. page
units, hours 10s, hours units, minutes 10s, minutes units.
By using R2, you coul load the unit page value whithout having to sed the
magazine and 10s page first.
-tony
1:40 a.m.
2009/8/1 Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>:
AS ever I don't have a scanner
Do you want one? I think I have a spare SCSI one in the attic.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
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8:48 p.m.
2009/8/1 Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>:
Only if
a) It can be connected to a classic PERQ or a PDP11 with an I2S Model 70
iamge display (these being the 2 machines I have with reasonable graphics)
b) You have (or can gat) a proper service manual for it
c) Spares are available
It's not that I can't get a scanner, it's rather that I can't get a
scanner and somethign to connect it to that meets my criteria for a
device I will rely on.
-tony
AS ever I don't have a scanner
Do you want one? I think I have a spare SCSI one in the attic. 
9:20 p.m.
[scanner]
On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Tony Duell wrote:
Only if
a) It can be connected to a classic PERQ or a PDP11 with an I2S Model 70
iamge display (these being the 2 machines I have with reasonable graphics)
b) You have (or can gat) a proper service manual for it
c) Spares are available
We'll leave a) up to you. We are confident that you could design and
build an interface. RS232 style of serial, "Centronics" style of
parallel, or [ALMOST] standard SCSI
As for c), some are so common that we could ship you enough "spares" to
use as bricks to build a shed. Each set of spare parts is connected
together identically to the device, so that identifying the individual
spare part can be done by where it is mounted in the kit of spares.
b) is the stumbling block. Way too much of the USA (and other) industry
considers proper service manuals to be a matter of "trade secret"s!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
3 Aug
3 Aug
7:07 p.m.
[Scanner]
Oh, I could build the interface, no problem. But Iam not a programmer,
and writing the drivers (and the higher-level software) is not something
I'd want to do.
Only if
a) It can be connected to a classic PERQ or a PDP11 with an I2S Model 70
iamge display (these being the 2 machines I have with reasonable graphics)
b) You have (or can gat) a proper service manual for it
c) Spares are available
We'll leave a) up to you. We are confident that you could design and
build an interface. RS232 style of serial, "Centronics" style of
parallel, or [ALMOST] standard SCSI
As for c), some are so common that we could ship you enough "spares" to
use as bricks to build a shed. Each set of spare parts is connected
I don't class that as 'spares availability' :-)
b) is the stumbling block. Way too much of the USA
(and other) industry
considers proper service manuals to be a matter of "trade secret"s!
Exactly. And while reverse-engineering things is not genrally beyond me,
I suspect most scanners (including the Nikon one I've been inside) are
stuffed with custom silicon and not much else so working out how it all
works is a 'challenege'. And I've got more interesting things to work on.
-tony
1:32 a.m.
2009/8/2 Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>:
Touching display of gratitude, there, Tony. Well done.
I will try Freecycle and failing that throw it in a skip, then.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
2009/8/1 Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>:
Only if
a) It can be connected to a classic PERQ or a PDP11 with an I2S Model 70
iamge display (these being the 2 machines I have with reasonable graphics)
b) You have (or can gat) a proper service manual for it
c) Spares are available
It's not that I can't get a scanner, it's rather that I can't get a
scanner and somethign to connect it to that meets my criteria for a
device I will rely on. AS ever I don't have a scanner
Do you want one? I think I have a spare SCSI one in the attic.
5405
days inactive
5408
days old
8 comments
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participants (4)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
philpem＠philpem.me.uk