17 Oct
1999
17 Oct
'99
3:57 p.m.
My main concern with the eBay auction algorithm is that it is
time-limited, rather than bid-limited.... the aution closes after a
fixed span **no matter what the bidding activity is**.
'Normal' auctions close when **no further bids are recieved** in an
agreed-upon span.
I have bought and sold hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of
aerospace and industrial surplus at auctions large and small,
sealed-bid and open-floor, honestly run and 'otherwise'. The reason
I dislike the eBay model is that the item most often goes to the
fastest/luckiest bidder (sniper)... and that's totally wacked, IMHO.
I am not going to join the "capitalism vs. overvaluation" debate.
I'm a captialist *and* a collector... that's internal conflict
enough.
I wonder how much tweaking would be involved on the part of eBay's
logicians to convert it over to the more familiar "going, going,
gone!" type of format.
What do You All think??
Cheers
John
17 Oct
17 Oct
6:54 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Oct 1999, John Lawson wrote:
My main concern with the eBay auction algorithm is that it is
time-limited, rather than bid-limited.... the aution closes after a
fixed span **no matter what the bidding activity is**.
'Normal' auctions close when **no further bids are recieved** in an
agreed-upon span.
That is certainly true, but it is also true that all of the bidders are
present during all of the bidding process and it is easy for the
auctioneer to determine when bidding ceases. Neither of these things is
true on e-Bay as there are certainly 'late arrivals' who were not aware
of the availability of the item until they logged on and bid, and there
is certainly no auctioneer to bring down the gavel.
________O/_______
O\
I wonder how much tweaking would be involved on the
part of eBay's
logicians to convert it over to the more familiar "going, going,
gone!" type of format.
Plenty!
What do You All think??
Now you know :)
- don
Cheers
John
9:53 p.m.
John Lawson wrote:
My main concern with the eBay auction algorithm is that it is
time-limited, rather than bid-limited.... the aution closes after a
fixed span **no matter what the bidding activity is**.
'Normal' auctions close when **no further bids are recieved** in an
agreed-upon span.
You are forgetting the sealed bid auctions. IMNSHO, it would be far better
for ebay to add the capability to make sealed bids (and yes, I have
suggested that to them.) That would eliminate this inching up just to see
where the high bid is prior to closing.
Ebays suggestion that you just bid your maximum and wait to see what happens
is a good thought. But making that bid early just invites "well, I'll just
bid one more dollar to see what happens" and thus driving the price up. Most
ebay buyers have educated themselves to know that early bids do not bring
the best prices. Hence the popularity of sniping. A combination of sealed
and open bidding would most likely work out better than the current mess.
10:04 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Oct 1999, Marvin wrote:
John Lawson wrote:
Yes, which is really what "sniping" is; a user-created form of sealed
bidding.
People like me are the reason that bidding the max early is no good. I am
a fool with my money, and I don't know when to say "when." I view a dollar
as something that won't even buy me a cup of coffee most places, so it's
never a big deal to say, "Hmmm...just one more dollar..." to try to top a
bid. That's the biggest reason I bid in the final few seconds, to protect
me from myself. By the time I can reload the page after I bid, the auction
is over and I either won for that amount or lost...
Aaron
My main concern with the eBay auction algorithm is that it is
time-limited, rather than bid-limited.... the aution closes after a
fixed span **no matter what the bidding activity is**.
'Normal' auctions close when **no further bids are recieved** in an
agreed-upon span.
You are forgetting the sealed bid auctions. IMNSHO, it would be far better
for ebay to add the capability to make sealed bids (and yes, I have
suggested that to them.) That would eliminate this inching up just to see
where the high bid is prior to closing.
Ebays suggestion that you just bid your maximum and wait to see what happens
is a good thought. But making that bid early just invites "well, I'll just
bid one more dollar to see what happens" and thus driving the price up. Most
ebay buyers have educated themselves to know that early bids do not bring
the best prices. Hence the popularity of sniping. A combination of sealed
and open bidding would most likely work out better than the current mess. 
18 Oct
18 Oct
4:32 a.m.
On Sun, 17 Oct 1999, Marvin wrote:
> John Lawson wrote:
> > My main concern with the eBay auction algorithm is that it is
> > time-limited, rather than bid-limited.... the aution closes after a
> > fixed span **no matter what the bidding activity is**.
> > 'Normal' auctions close when **no further bids are recieved** in an
> > agreed-upon span.
> You are forgetting the sealed bid auctions.
IMNSHO, it would be far better
> for ebay to add the capability to make sealed bids (and yes, I have
> suggested that to them.) That would eliminate this inching up just to see
> where the high bid is prior to closing.
> Ebays suggestion that you just bid your maximum
and wait to see what happens
> is a good thought. But making that bid early just invites "well, I'll just
> bid one more dollar to see what happens" and thus driving the price up. Most
> ebay buyers have educated themselves to know that early bids do not bring
> the best prices. Hence the popularity of sniping. A combination of sealed
> and open bidding would most likely work out better than the current mess.
Yes, which is really what "sniping" is; a
user-created form of sealed
bidding.
Come on - that would be if you where just allowed to enter one bid.
People like me are the reason that bidding the max
early is no good. I am
a fool with my money, and I don't know when to say "when." I view a dollar
as something that won't even buy me a cup of coffee most places, so it's
never a big deal to say, "Hmmm...just one more dollar..." to try to top a
bid. That's the biggest reason I bid in the final few seconds, to protect
me from myself. By the time I can reload the page after I bid, the auction
is over and I either won for that amount or lost...
In fact, the eBay scheme comes from an overidealistic view of
their users - if all are well defined ethical beeings beting
... ah bidding acording to the idealistic rules, everything
would work fine - just, people are not like that. And by
insisting that their rules are the one and only way, the eBay
guys are just as stubborn as all idiologic kind.
So my solution would be in offering different auction styles,
giving the seller the freedom of choice what kind of auction
he likes:
- classic eBay with fixed end date
- seald bid, you are allowed _one_ bid, the amount is secret
until the final time _and_ the named amount is the amount
to go for (!)
- time driven - every last bid extends the closing time by
60 Minutes (to allow slow line / bussy people to place a
new bid)
Well, the sealed bid could be modified to a seled bid light,
where the mechanics of the classic eBay scheme is used, which
results into paying only the next step after the second highest
bid (unlikely that a seller will select that if he has a choice
between both).
Also the time driven may be enhanced with a final date (unknown
to public) to ensure that there is no endless auction.
Anyway, I don't think we will see such a variety on eBay - Giving
fredom of coice isn't everybodys thing...
Gruss
H.
BTW: this issue even arosed in the new 'eBay' Magazine... No joke,
there is a news stand magazine about eBay (and similar stuff),
licencing their name!
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Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
6:30 a.m.
On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Hans Franke wrote:
Which is exactly what I do, self-imposed.
On Sun, 17 Oct
1999, Marvin wrote:
> John Lawson wrote:
> > My main concern with the eBay auction algorithm is that it is
> > time-limited, rather than bid-limited.... the aution closes after a
> > fixed span **no matter what the bidding activity is**.
> > 'Normal' auctions close when **no further bids are recieved** in an
> > agreed-upon span.
> You are forgetting the sealed bid auctions.
IMNSHO, it would be far better
> for ebay to add the capability to make sealed bids (and yes, I have
> suggested that to them.) That would eliminate this inching up just to see
> where the high bid is prior to closing.
> Ebays suggestion that you just bid your
maximum and wait to see what happens
> is a good thought. But making that bid early just invites "well, I'll just
> bid one more dollar to see what happens" and thus driving the price up. Most
> ebay buyers have educated themselves to know that early bids do not bring
> the best prices. Hence the popularity of sniping. A combination of sealed
> and open bidding would most likely work out better than the current mess.
Yes, which is really what "sniping" is;
a user-created form of sealed
bidding.
Come on - that would be if you where just allowed to enter one bid. People like me
are the reason that bidding the max early is no good.I am
a fool with my money, and I don't know when to say "when." I view a dollar
as something that won't even buy me a cup of coffee most places, so it's
never a big deal to say, "Hmmm...just one more dollar..." to try to top a
bid. That's the biggest reason I bid in the final few seconds, to protect
me from myself. By the time I can reload the page after I bid, the auction
is over and I either won for that amount or lost...
In fact, the eBay scheme comes from an overidealistic view of
their users - if all are well defined ethical beeings beting
... ah bidding acording to the idealistic rules, everything
would work fine - just, people are not like that. And by
insisting that their rules are the one and only way, the eBay
guys are just as stubborn as all idiologic kind.
So my solution would be in offering different auction styles,
giving the seller the freedom of choice what kind of auction
he likes:
- classic eBay with fixed end date
- seald bid, you are allowed _one_ bid, the amount is secret
until the final time _and_ the named amount is the amount
to go for (!)
- time driven - every last bid extends the closing time by
60 Minutes (to allow slow line / bussy people to place a
new bid)
Well, the sealed bid could be modified to a seled bid light,
where the mechanics of the classic eBay scheme is used, which
results into paying only the next step after the second highest
bid (unlikely that a seller will select that if he has a choice
between both).
Also the time driven may be enhanced with a final date (unknown
to public) to ensure that there is no endless auction.
Anyway, I don't think we will see such a variety on eBay - Giving
fredom of coice isn't everybodys thing...
17 Oct
17 Oct
10:03 p.m.
I wonder how much tweaking would be involved on the
part of eBay's
logicians to convert it over to the more familiar "going, going,
gone!" type of format.
I would settle for eBay just staying up, then later on they can work on
refinements.
I and many others have given the issue a LOT of thought, and basically the
idea of a "live" finish is EXTREMELY popular among both buyers and sellers.
Implementing it is not a small or simple problem, especially within the
browser environment which expects the user to ask for updates.
18 Oct
18 Oct
5:44 a.m.
Mike Ford wrote:
I and many others have given the issue a LOT of thought, and basically the
idea of a "live" finish is EXTREMELY popular among both buyers and sellers.
Implementing it is not a small or simple problem, especially within the
browser environment which expects the user to ask for updates.
A live finish is not even slightly a good idea for online auctions. The
whole idea is to not have to be attending your bid at the time the auction
closes. I am not sure your "EXTREMELY" popular statement is true for the
whole of ebay. It may be true for the minority who visit the message boards.
8:12 a.m.
Mike Ford wrote:
Then just bid your max and wait to see if you won in the morning, not a
problem.
I and many others have given the issue a LOT of thought, and basically the
idea of a "live" finish is EXTREMELY popular among both buyers and sellers.
Implementing it is not a small or simple problem, especially within the
browser environment which expects the user to ask for updates.
A live finish is not even slightly a good idea for online auctions. The
whole idea is to not have to be attending your bid at the time the auction
closes. I am not sure your "EXTREMELY" popular statement is true for the
whole of ebay. It may be true for the minority who visit the message boards.
9040
days inactive
9041
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9 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
af-list＠wfi-inc.com -
donm＠cts.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
jpl15＠netcom.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com