2 Mar
2005
2 Mar
'05
11:02 p.m.
Does anyone have the microcode source code for the
PDP11 native instruction set on the LSI-11/2/WD chips?
it purportedly provided with the LSI-11 WCS option (KUV-11 -M8018)
The descriptions I've found in documentation located on bitsavers
say the the kit included the microcode assembler/linker
tools as well as the full ' 11 source .mic code for reference.
Meagan? Alternate anyone have info on reading out the WD PMOS roms?
I've got 3x working M7264 LSI-11/2(quad height) with all the MICROMs loaded as well
as a M7270 LSI-11 (dual height), they all run RT fine. Anyone know
if you can just swap the MICROMS to make a WD Pascal Microegine?
Would be a good set if you already have an 11/23, 11/73 looking to complete the set.
Open to interesting trades.
Heinz
2 Mar
2 Mar
11:53 p.m.
Heinz wrote:
Alternate anyone have info on reading out the WD PMOS
roms?
Reading the MICROMs wouldn't be that difficult. But it's not the
whole story. The control chip has two metal-mask PLAs ("translation
arrays") that can cause PC changes even when the current microinstruction
is not a branch, based on two 8-bit translation registers and various
other inputs.
I can envision two ways to dump the translation arrays.
1: Capture a whole lot of logic analyzer traces covering both the
Qbus and the microinstruction bus while executing a variety
of PDP-11 software. Write software to parse the traces,
identify translation branches, track the expected translation
register contents, and build up logic equations. This is a lot
of work and wouldn't be guarateed to come up with identical
PLA equations, though if you run enough traces through you'd
probably get close.
2: Deencapsulate a control chip with fuming nitric acid, take a
high resolution photomicrograph, and spend a lot of time studying
it to figure out the topology of the PLAs.
I've got 3x working M7264 LSI-11/2(quad height)
with all the MICROMs
loaded as well
as a M7270 LSI-11 (dual height), they all run RT fine. Anyone know
if you can just swap the MICROMS to make a WD Pascal Microegine?
You can't, because the translation arrays are different in the LSI-11,
Pascal Microengine, and WD-16. The data path chip of the Pascal
Microengine and WD-16 are the same, but I'm not 100% certain that it's
the same as that of the LSI-11.
Also, the system-level interface of the LSI-11 and Pascal Microengine
are different. There are four bus control signals from the MICROMs that
get decoded for bus control, and they are not used identically in the
LSI-11, Pascal Microengine, and WD-16. Even if you swap the control
chip along with the MICROMs, the Pascal Microengine doesn't know how to
talk to a Qbus.
Eric
3 Mar
3 Mar
2:20 a.m.
"Eric Smith" <eric at brouhaha.com> replied:
Subject: Re: LSI-11/2 microcode source
darn - I was hoping it was simpler! too bad the PLAs can't
be deduced from the native microinstruction set/ISA..
knowing the binary contents of the first MICROM would be
enough for me.. I guess the addresses need only to be sequenced,
data read (with an analyzer) while providing the odd voltages and
multiphase clocks... unless someone out there has the listing ;)
my M7270 contains a control chip 1611-H 21-16890-00 (8015 date),
and CP1621B14 data chip while my
M7264 has a DEC badged ceramic 1611A 21-11549-01 (7717 date)
The AM100 appears to have a1611B. I assume these are diff. mask sets.
What the WD1600 stock set use? The Pascal Microengine?
regards
h
Heinz wrote:
Alternate anyone have info on reading out the WD
PMOS roms?
Reading the MICROMs wouldn't be that difficult. But it's not the
whole story. The control chip has two metal-mask PLAs ("translation
arrays") that can cause PC changes even when the current microinstruction
is not a branch, based on two 8-bit translation registers and various
other inputs.
You can't, because the translation arrays are different in the LSI-11,
Pascal Microengine, and WD-16. The data path chip of the Pascal
Microengine and WD-16 are the same, but I'm not 100% certain that it's
the same as that of the LSI-11.
Also, the system-level interface of the LSI-11 and Pascal Microengine
are different. There are four bus control signals from the MICROMs that
get decoded for bus control, and they are not used identically in the
LSI-11, Pascal Microengine, and WD-16. Even if you swap the control
chip along with the MICROMs, the Pascal Microengine doesn't know how to
talk to a Qbus.
Eric
11:46 a.m.
Heinz wrote:
my M7270 contains a control chip 1611-H 21-16890-00
(8015 date),
and CP1621B14 data chip while my
M7264 has a DEC badged ceramic 1611A 21-11549-01 (7717 date)
The CP1611 is the data chip, and the CP1621 (23-002C4) is the control
chip. The MICROMs are CP1631B-07 (23-002B5) and CP1631B-10 (23-001B5)
for the standard instruction set, and CP1631B-15 (23-003B5) for EIS/FIS.
The standard instruction set MICROMs may both be packaged onto a
single hybrid, DEC P/N 23-002B6 or 23-003B6.
The AM100 appears to have a1611B. I assume these are
diff. mask sets.
What the WD1600 stock set use? The Pascal Microengine?
The WD16 uses CP1611B-03 for data, CP1661B-03 for control, and
CP1631B-27, -29, and -30 MICROMs.
The WD/9000 Pascal microengine chipset uses CP2151B data, CP2161B-02
control, nd C2161B-14, -15, and -18 for the final version of the
MICROMs, though there were earlier releases that presumably had
other numeric suffixes.
It is known that the CP2151 data chip will work on an AM100 board
(WD-16), so it probably will work on an LSI-11 as well. It is not
yet known whether a CP1611 data chip will work in a Pascal Microengine;
it is possible that the CP2151 has added features, but it is also
possible that they are functionally identical.
None of the control chips and MICROMs are interchangeable.
Eric
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eric＠brouhaha.com -
h.wolter＠sympatico.ca