29 Nov
2009
29 Nov
'09
3:30 p.m.
Hi guys,
I've just got my hands on a HP 16500B logic analyser mainframe,
complete with a few acquisition cards (16530A 2-channel 400Msps
oscilloscope and 16550A 100MHz State/500MHz Timing logic analyser). Now
I'd rather like a keyboard and mouse for it...
I'm aware that the HP-HIL keyboard and mouse used on the 16500B were
HP-proprietary, and that they were also used on a couple of HP
workstations. My question is, does anyone here have a HP-HIL keyboard,
mouse, or (preferably) a mouse and keyboard pair for sale?
(I'd also settle for a PS/2-to-HP-HIL adapter, if such a beast exists)
I've had a quick look on Greed-bay, and it seems the only listings
for HP-HIL kit are from test-and-measurement dealers whose prices are a
bit... well... "out there".
I could also do with the manuals for the 16530A oscilloscope card; at
the least I need the Front Panel Operations Reference, but the Service
Manual would be good too. I can't say I'm too fussed about the
Programmer's Manual (it's on Agilent's website as a PDF), but it would
be nice to have a complete set. I'll take PDF, (good quality) photocopy,
or dead-tree, whatever's easiest.
Thanks,
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
30 Nov
30 Nov
9:04 a.m.
Philip Pemberton wrote:
Hi guys,
I've just got my hands on a HP 16500B logic analyser mainframe,
complete with a few acquisition cards (16530A 2-channel 400Msps
oscilloscope and 16550A 100MHz State/500MHz Timing logic analyser). Now
I'd rather like a keyboard and mouse for it...
My favorite LA. Figuring out the internals of the hardware and software
is on my list of things I'd like to do some day. It was a very flexible
device.
My question is, does anyone here have a HP-HIL
keyboard,
mouse, or (preferably) a mouse and keyboard pair for sale?
They are the same as on 300 series workstations. Send along an address and
I'll send them to you, since the work you're doing on the USB interface is
something I'd like to see finished.
1:29 p.m.
Hi guys,
I've just got my hands on a HP 16500B logic analyser mainframe,
complete with a few acquisition cards (16530A 2-channel 400Msps
oscilloscope and 16550A 100MHz State/500MHz Timing logic analyser). Now
I'd rather like a keyboard and mouse for it...
I'm aware that the HP-HIL keyboard and mouse used on the 16500B were
First thing. You;ve got it right, but a lot of people don't. HP-HIL
(Human IInterface Link) is the interface for keyboards, mice,
twiddleboxes, etc. HPIL (Interface Look) is logivally a serial ersion of
HPIB (IEEE-488) and links up disk drives, printers, etc. There is no such
thing as an HPIL keyboard or mouse (at least notm made by HP), but it's
worth searching for them on E-bay, becasue they're likely to be HP-HIL.
HP-proprietary, and that they were also used on a
couple of HP
workstations. My question is, does anyone here have a HP-HIL keyboard,
They were used on a lot of HP machines (the mice on rather more machines
than the keyboards, actually).
The keyoard comes in at least 3 sizes. The compact keyoard, the full
keyboard (similar to a PC keyboard) and the odd one used on the Integral.
Now, HP-HIL devices can be asked to sned an ID byte back to the host, the
high bits of this encode the type of device (and is different for the 3
keyoard tpyes), in the case of a a keyboard the low bits encode the
country-specifc layout. Note the the keyboard doesn't send ASCII codes --
it's more like a PC keyboard in that it effective sends '3rd key on the
2nd row has been pressed' It's up to the host machine to turn that into a
character (based on the layout determined from the ID byte).
Why am I telling you this? Well, it's possible your analyser will not
handle all types of keybaords (I suspect it will handle all country
versions). Do you hapeen to know waht keyboard was origianlly used?
I have come across 2 HP-HIL keyoard types. The HP46020 is the older one,
It has individual keyswiches soldered to an SRBP PCB. It uses a COP
microcontorller, an HP-HIL slave chip (HP custom) and a few 4000-series
CMOS parts. The ID byte is partially set by diodes soldered on the PCB,
so could be trivially changed.
The HP46021 is the later one, and claims to e compatible. The PCB in that
conyains a large HP custom chip (directly linking to the HP-HIL
connectors) and an E2PROM. I susepct the latter contains the ID byte. The
keyboard matriv is a membrane tpye sandwich and is variable
_capacitance_. No, that supprised me too, but the only change in
electrical properties that I could detect as a capacistance change, and
checking the patent nunbers (helpfully marked on the sandwich) confirmed
this.
There are several versions of the mouse (different shapes, I think maye 2
and 3 utton versions, and different circuits). But I think they're all
pretty mcuh compatible.
mouse, or (preferably) a mouse and keyboard pair for
sale?
I can't promise, and I'll haev to dig a bit, but I may have a UK layout
46021 and a mouse spare.
(I'd also settle for a PS/2-to-HP-HIL adapter,
if such a beast exists)
I beleive it did exist, but I've never seen one.
I've had a quick look on Greed-bay, and it seems the only listings
for HP-HIL kit are from test-and-measurement dealers whose prices are a
bit... well... "out there".
You might find it easier to buy a cheap HP9000/300 series machine (AFAIK
all used the HP-HIL keyoard). I've found old HP9000s sell for very little
money on E-bay.
Let me know if you want me to seriously dig for a 46021...
-tony
2:59 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Why am I telling you this? Well, it's possible
your analyser will not
handle all types of keybaords (I suspect it will handle all country
versions). Do you hapeen to know waht keyboard was origianlly used?
According to the User's Guide for the 16500B:
"This chapter explains how to use the optonal keyboard interface (HP
E2427A Keyboard Kit) and optonal mouse."
So I guess that would be the E2427A. Listed by Agilent as a "HP-HIL
Keyboard that can be used with Agilent instruments".
There are several versions of the mouse (different
shapes, I think maye 2
and 3 utton versions, and different circuits). But I think they're all
pretty mcuh compatible.
The one shown in the 16500B manual looks like someone glued half a
tennis ball to the bottom edge of a cuboid then shoved a cable in the
other end... Very strange.
I can't promise, and I'll haev to dig a bit,
but I may have a UK layout
46021 and a mouse spare.
Al Kossow has already offered me a HP-HIL keyboard (ref: his post at
17:04 in this thread), so thanks for the offer but I think I'm sorted.
What I need to hunt down now are some replacement machine screws for the
mounting feet. Two of the feet have been removed; it looks like the
machine was dropped at some point in its life, and the mounting screws
have been snapped. On top of that, the square-profile metal tabs that
hold the screws have been split apart by the force of the impact.
So basically, what I've got is a pair of feet, no screws, and the metal
the screws screw into is "gone". It extends further into the mainframe a
bit more and there is some more screwthread, but I'm trying to think of
a solution for the lack of metal around what is the main mounting for
the feet.
At this point, my two best solutions are:
- Drill the holes out a bit more (to around M5) and have a local
machine shop make up some threaded inserts -- M5 outside, M3.5 tapped
hole inside, possibly flattened on one end so they can be easily screwed
in. Screw in, build up epoxy putty around the side to replace the
missing metal, reinstall mounting feet.
- Same thing without the threaded inserts. Drive a screw into the
hole, build up the putty and leave it to set (~24 hrs). Remove the
screw, then install the foot and reinsert the screw.
I like #1, it's more effort but likely to produce a stronger result.
What surprises me is that HP only used one M3.5 screw to hold each foot,
and this is on a >20kg machine. My Tek 466 weighs less than that, and
IIRC the screws for the feet on that are around M5-size.
At this point, I would kill for a drill press, a lathe, tap-and-die set,
some metal rod stock and a good book on metalworking...
The screws are listed in the service manual as "Screw, Machine, M3.5 x
0.6, 25.4mm_LG (Back Feet)". Torx T15 head (if memory serves; might be
T10). Naturally the closest I've got is either M3 or M4 and nobody
around here stocks machine screws in small quantities.
Admittedly two broken feet is not the end of the world, but it does make
it something of a pain to angle the front up on the flip-feet...
Ah well. For a few quid under ?140, it's still a steal. Especially
seeing as I got a full set of probes. With HP LAs, documentation and
software can generally be tracked down; probes tend to be rare and
expensive (especially those blasted woven cables).
Thanks,
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
3:37 p.m.
Philip Pemberton wrote:
- Same thing without the threaded inserts. Drive a
screw into the
hole, build up the putty and leave it to set (~24 hrs). Remove the
screw, then install the foot and reinsert the screw.
I suddenly like this solution a lot more :P
I've just removed one of the other feet, and it screws into the broken
metalwork fine (and, crucially, stays in place). Doesn't feel any weaker
than the other foot (which was 100% intact).
Looks like I just need to get my mitts on a bag of 1in-long M3.5 machine
screws and find the pack of epoxy putty that I know is *somewhere*
around here. Might try the local model shop tomorrow, or failing that I
need to find ?30 worth of stuff to buy from Farnell...
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
1 Dec
1 Dec
1:01 p.m.
Looks like I just need to get my mitts on a bag of
1in-long M3.5 machine=20
screws and find the pack of epoxy putty that I know is *somewhere*=20
around here. Might try the local model shop tomorrow, or failing that I=20
Try the electircal wholesalers (if you have nne) -- see my previous message.
need to find =A330 worth of stuff to buy from
Farnell...
I never have problems finding things I can use from Farnell. The problem
is paying for them...
-tony
2:48 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
I never have problems finding things I can use from
Farnell. The problem
is paying for them...
Too true...
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
30 Nov
30 Nov
4:35 p.m.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Philip Pemberton
<classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> wrote:
Ah well. For a few quid under ?140, it's still a steal. Especially seeing as
I got a full set of probes. With HP LAs, documentation and software can
generally be tracked down; probes tend to be rare and expensive (especially
those blasted woven cables).
Finding parts for HP 16500 series analyzer at reasonable prices
shouldn't be a problem for quite a while, at least in the US.
Did your 16500B come with the Ethernet interface, 16500L or 16500H ?
If it did you can use the FTP server to transfer files, grab screen
shots, and send program commands. You can also use an X Window System
Server to remotely control the mainframe, which is an alternative to
using a local HIL keyboard and mouse if you don't have them.
I have PDFs of most of the 16500 series module manuals, but not the
16530/16531 operating manuals. I have manuals and IA/config file
disks for the 8085 (10304B) and Z-80 (10300B) probes. Anyone have the
manual and IA/config file disk for the 68000/68010 (10311B) probe?
-Glen
1 Dec
1 Dec
1 p.m.
There are
several versions of the mouse (different shapes, I think maye=
2=20
and 3 utton versions, and different circuits).
But I think they're all=20
pretty mcuh compatible.
The one shown in the 16500B manual looks like someone glued half a=20
tennis ball to the bottom edge of a cuboid then shoved a cable in the=20
other end... Very strange. What I need to hunt down now are some replacement
machine screws for the=20
mounting feet. Two of the feet have been removed; it looks like the=20
machine was dropped at some point in its life, and the mounting screws=20
have been snapped. On top of that, the square-profile metal tabs that=20
hold the screws have been split apart by the force of the impact.
Ouch.
Mu HP9826 arrived with cracks in the casing. The E-bay seller said it
happened in transit, I am not sure I believe that. But anyway, I ended up
drilling holes and putting self-tappers in to hold some of the cracks
together. It doesn't look perfect, but the machine works. Fortunately,
although the (thick and solid) plastic case was cracked, the internals --
all the PCBs, the disk drive and even the CRT -- were perfect.
It soulds like you've got a similar situation. Case damage, but good
electronics.
So basically, what I've got is a pair of feet, no screws, and the metal=20
the screws screw into is "gone". It extends further into the mainframe a=20
bit more and there is some more screwthread, but I'm trying to think of=20
a solution for the lack of metal around what is the main mounting for=20
the feet.
At this point, my two best solutions are:
- Drill the holes out a bit more (to around M5) and have a local=20
machine shop make up some threaded inserts -- M5 outside, M3.5 tapped=20
If you ask me nicely, I can possibly provide help with doing that. I have
taps and dies...
hole inside, possibly flattened on one end so they can
be easily screwed=20
in. Screw in, build up epoxy putty around the side to replace the=20
missing metal, reinstall mounting feet.
- Same thing without the threaded inserts. Drive a screw into the=20
hole, build up the putty and leave it to set (~24 hrs). Remove the=20
screw, then install the foot and reinsert the screw.
I like #1, it's more effort but likely to produce a stronger result.=20
What surprises me is that HP only used one M3.5 screw to hold each foot,=20
Are you sure it's M3.5? Have you measured it (and checked the pitch,
which IIRC is 0.6mm). On older instruments, HP used UNC screws, and 6-32
UNC (32 tpi) is similar in size to M3.5 (although not identical).
(As an aside, the oriignal jackscrews for HPIB cables were 6-32 UNC.
Later ones (and all you'll find now) are M3.5, They are not
interchangeable, but the M3.5 screw will go into the 6-32 tapped hole and
engage by pehaps half a turn).
At this point, I would kill for a drill press, a
lathe, tap-and-die set,=20
some metal rod stock and a good book on metalworking...
See above :-)
The screws are listed in the service manual as "Screw, Machine, M3.5 x=20
0.6, 25.4mm_LG (Back Feet)". Torx T15 head (if memory serves; might be=20
OK, they are M3.5, I am suprised...
T10). Naturally the closest I've got is either M3
or M4 and nobody=20
around here stocks machine screws in small quantities.
Where is 'here'?
M3.5 threads turun up in 2 main places. One that many classic computer
enthusiasts will come across, and the other in just about every house in
the UK. The former I've already mentioned (HPIB/GPIB/IEEE-488 cables).
The latter is the screws used to fix (UK) light swtiches, sockets, etc to
the backboxes.
Most electrical wholesalers, some DIY shops, and maybe even Maplin, sell
spare (or longer, etc) screws. Yes, I did once use a couple in an
emergency to hold an HPIB cable in place.
The prolem comes if you want to cut them down. An old trick is to run a
nut onto the screw before cutting it, then use it to reform the thread at
the cut end by unscrewing it. But M3.5 nuts are much harder to find than
screws. Given an M3.5" tap, it's easy to make sumething for this, but the
M3.5" tap is not in most sets (I bought them (3 taps) for making HPIB
jackposts, they are available).
3:04 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Ouch indeed.
I've put some epoxy putty on the damaged mounts and pushed the feet on.
In the next 24 hours or so, that epoxy should solidify into more or less
the shape it needs to be in. Backing out the screw should form the
thread fairly nicely. It won't be pretty, but it'll work.
I'll also have to do some panel-beating... the top cover took a bit of a
ding where one of the protrusions on the top-right foot hit it. Hence
why that foot is now a bit loose. Ugh. A few chunks of scrap wood and a
decent-sized hammer should sort that, though.
I've done far worse. I work at a photo-lab. The magazines that feed
paper into the machine have a metal tube and two plastic rounded nuts to
hold the paper reel in place. Some idiot did a paper-change, put the
paper onto the metal tube, then dropped the blasted thing on the deck.
Dented the tube quite badly. For bonus points, he/she/it started
tightening the nut, but didn't get very far.
End result: I ended up fixing it with a screwdriver, a hammer and the
MDF (?) table. Good fun. Thankfully the thread was ~1.5mm pitch. That
screwdriver will never be the same again (though it was rusted to hell
anyway).
The lack of a decent drill press on this end might cause problems. I've
got a Dremel in a Wolfcraft stand (which IIRC can be assembled so the
drill faces sideways), but I use that mainly for drilling PCBs and doubt
it'd put up with me making it drill through the supports. At the very
least I'd need to figure out some method of alignment.
What I need to
hunt down now are some replacement machine screws for the=20
mounting feet. Two of the feet have been removed; it looks like the=20
machine was dropped at some point in its life, and the mounting screws=20
have been snapped. On top of that, the square-profile metal tabs that=20
hold the screws have been split apart by the force of the impact.
Ouch. It soulds like you've got a similar situation.
Case damage, but good
electronics.
Or the electronics /were/ good until I hosed the System software. Tried
to upgrade the OS to v3.14 about an hour ago, now it won't boot off the
hard drive. Seems the floppy drive is either shot or very picky as to
what sort of discs it'll read. Fun.
Anyone care to recommend a good quality brand of 3.5" 1.44MB floppy?
At this point,
my two best solutions are:
- Drill the holes out a bit more (to around M5) and have a local=20
machine shop make up some threaded inserts -- M5 outside, M3.5 tapped=20
If you ask me nicely, I can possibly provide help with doing that. I have
taps and dies... Where is 'here'?
Leeds. West Yorkshire. "Up North" (somewhat).
Most electrical wholesalers, some DIY shops, and maybe
even Maplin, sell
spare (or longer, etc) screws. Yes, I did once use a couple in an
emergency to hold an HPIB cable in place.
I spent most of this morning ringing local DIY shops. Gave up after the
4th one. Turns out everyone's got countersunk M3.5x25 screws, but you're
basically stuffed if you want pan-head or cheese-head.
I've just ordered a bag of 50 from a place called "Precision Technology
Supplies". ?3.74 for the screws, ?2.88 post. Listed as "M3.5 x 25 POZI
PAN A2 ST/ST" in the catalogue, and should be here tomorrow (or Thursday
if Royal Mail decide to be slow).
Now back to finding out why the analyser won't boot from floppy... I
hope it isn't a broken disc drive, that would be a bit of a problem
(though not an unsolvable one: two 34pin IDC crimp-on plugs, some IDC
cable, a floppy drive power connector and a bit of soldering). The
pinouts are in the Service Manual and it looks like a (fairly) standard
300RPM 3.5in slimline drive.
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
5:13 p.m.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Philip Pemberton
<classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> wrote:
Now back to finding out why the analyser won't
boot from floppy... I hope it
isn't a broken disc drive, that would be a bit of a problem (though not an
unsolvable one: two 34pin IDC crimp-on plugs, some IDC cable, a floppy drive
power connector and a bit of soldering). The pinouts are in the Service
Manual and it looks like a (fairly) standard 300RPM 3.5in slimline drive.
What happens when you try to boot from the floppy? I haven't done
that in a while, but remember that it takes a surprisingly long time.
Have you just tried waiting a few minutes?
11:56 p.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
What happens when you try to boot from the floppy? I
haven't done
that in a while, but remember that it takes a surprisingly long time.
Have you just tried waiting a few minutes?
Yeah, I gave up and left it while I made a cup of tea last night -- when
I looked at the screen again, it had booted.
So about 6-7 minutes to boot from floppy. Wow. No wonder HP gave it a
hard drive.
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
2 Dec
2 Dec
3:31 a.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Philip Pemberton
Verzonden: woensdag 2 december 2009 8:57
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: Wanted - HP16530A docs, HP-HIL
keyboard/mouse/PS2 adapter
Glen Slick wrote:
Witch software version do you use ?
When you download the newest version from http://hammycorp.com/hp16500/ or
other sites, and you want to initialize the disks with lifutil keep in mind
you have to set the sector size to 1024 bytes.
The 16500A doesn't read LIF disc witch are initialized at a sector size of
256 bytes.
Lifutil only runs under MSDOS not winxxx.
On disc's 5/6 and 6/6 are the system tests located, you can use that to test
and verify your system.
-Rik
What happens when you try to boot from the
floppy? I haven't done
that in a while, but remember that it takes a surprisingly
long time.
Have you just tried waiting a few minutes?
Yeah, I gave up and left it while I made a cup of tea last
night -- when I looked at the screen again, it had booted.
So about 6-7 minutes to boot from floppy. Wow. No wonder HP
gave it a hard drive.
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
8:29 a.m.
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix at xs4all.nl> wrote:
Witch software version do you use ?
When you download the newest version from http://hammycorp.com/hp16500/ or
other sites, and you want to initialize the disks with lifutil keep in mind
you have to set the sector size to 1024 bytes.
He previously said he is upgrading to V3.14 on a B. The floppies for
that version are plain 1.44MB MS-DOS format, 4 system file disks and 1
pvtest disk.
Once you have the system booted you can also reinitialize the hard
drive and download the system files over the GPIB port. For fun I
wrote some simple utilities to do that using an NatInst GPIB card and
found that to be less painful than waiting for it to read the files
from floppy and shufflling floppies. But most people
would normally
never have a need to reload the system software to the hard drive...
8:54 a.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Glen Slick
Verzonden: woensdag 2 december 2009 17:30
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: Wanted - HP16530A docs, HP-HIL
keyboard/mouse/PS2 adapter
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix at xs4all.nl> wrote:
My fault, I was assuming an 16500A because of the header..
Lost track a little ;-)
-Rik
Witch software version do you use ?
When you download the newest version from
http://hammycorp.com/hp16500/ or other sites, and you want to
initialize the disks with lifutil keep in mind you have to
set the sector size to
1024 bytes.
He previously said he is upgrading to V3.14 on a B. The
floppies for that version are plain 1.44MB MS-DOS format, 4
system file disks and 1 pvtest disk.
11:08 a.m.
If you ask me
nicely, I can possibly provide help with doing that. I ha=
ve=20
taps and dies...
The lack of a decent drill press on this end might cause problems. I've=20
got a Dremel in a Wolfcraft stand (which IIRC can be assembled so the=20
drill faces sideways), but I use that mainly for drilling PCBs and doubt=20
it'd put up with me making it drill through the supports. At the very=20
least I'd need to figure out some method of alignment. Where is 'here'?
Leeds. West Yorkshire. "Up North" (somewhat). Most electrical wholesalers, some DIY shops, and
maybe even Maplin, sel=
l=20
spare (or longer, etc) screws. Yes, I did once
use a couple in an=20
emergency to hold an HPIB cable in place.
I spent most of this morning ringing local DIY shops. Gave up after the=20
4th one. Turns out everyone's got countersunk M3.5x25 screws, but you're=20
basically stuffed if you want pan-head or cheese-head. Now back to finding out why the analyser won't
boot from floppy... I=20
hope it isn't a broken disc drive, that would be a bit of a problem=20
(though not an unsolvable one: two 34pin IDC crimp-on plugs, some IDC=20
At least it's not the Sony full-height 600rpm one (with a 26 pin
connector). I'll say it again -- if you have any HP (or Apricot, etc)
hardware that uses these drives, particularly the double-sided ones, take
them apart (I have some pictures on flickr that might help) and clean the
greas off the eject mechanism. Do it now, before the grease hardens, the
mechanism sticks and the top head is ripped off by an ejecting disk.
cable, a floppy drive power connector and a bit of
soldering). The=20
pinouts are in the Service Manual and it looks like a (fairly) standard=20
300RPM 3.5in slimline drive.
My guess is it has power on the data connector? HP used a DD drive like
that in soem of their machines that was a 600 rpm drive. It shares a lot
of parts (even one of the ASICs) with an Apple 800K drive. Now how did I
find that out...
-tony
1 Dec
1 Dec
1:53 a.m.
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Tony Duell wrote:
I have come across 2 HP-HIL keyoard types. The HP46020
is the older one,
[...]
The HP46021 is the later one, and claims to e
compatible. The PCB in that
[...]
Then there is at least one more very common HP-HIL keyboard, the HP46030.
I have several of them, they are/were used on the HP Vectra PCs. And they
physically work with HP workstations, but the key codes don't match.
Christian
1:07 p.m.
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Tony Duell wrote:
Intereasting. I wonder what its ID byte is.
Is it similar to the HP120/Hp150 keyboard issue (see a thread I started some
months back). Those keyboards are not HP-HIL of course, but they have
much the same interface as each other but a totally different matrix
layoug. I hacked an HP150 keyboard to use on my HP120...
I wonder why HP made an incompatible HP-HIL keyboard for the PC range.
Why not just use the standard one?
-tony
I have come across 2 HP-HIL keyoard types. The
HP46020 is the older one,
[...]
The HP46021 is the later one, and claims to e
compatible. The PCB in that
[...]
Then there is at least one more very common HP-HIL keyboard, the HP46030.
I have several of them, they are/were used on the HP Vectra PCs. And they
physically work with HP workstations, but the key codes don't match.
2:19 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Tony Duell
Verzonden: dinsdag 1 december 2009 22:07
Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Onderwerp: Re: Wanted - HP16530A docs, HP-HIL
keyboard/mouse/PS2 adapter
The PCB in
keyboard, the HP46030.
I'm using a HP 46021A for my HP 16500A.
The feet for the HP 16500 housing are the standard instrument snap feet from
HP/Agilent it should not be very difficult to get them .
The differences between the workstation (HP9000) keyboards and early Vectra
keyboards are the function keys MSDOS needs different functions as HP-UX or
RMB are using.
- Rik
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Tony Duell wrote:
> I have come across 2 HP-HIL keyoard types. The HP46020 is
the older
one,
[...]
> The HP46021 is the later one, and claims to e compatible. that
[...]
Then there is at least one more very common HP-HIL I have several of them, they are/were used on the
HP Vectra
PCs. And
they physically work with HP workstations, but
the key
codes don't match.
Intereasting. I wonder what its ID byte is.
Is it similar to the HP120/Hp150 keyboard issue (see a thread
I started some months back). Those keyboards are not HP-HIL
of course, but they have much the same interface as each
other but a totally different matrix layoug. I hacked an
HP150 keyboard to use on my HP120...
I wonder why HP made an incompatible HP-HIL keyboard for the
PC range.
Why not just use the standard one?
-tony
3:07 p.m.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:19 PM, Rik Bos <hp-fix at xs4all.nl> wrote:
The feet for the HP 16500 housing are the standard instrument snap feet from
HP/Agilent it should not be very difficult to get them .
There are the snap on bottom feet and also the screw on rear feet that
are in some sense really only feet if you stand it up vertically on
end. I assume he is taking about the screw on rear feet here, which
can get their mounting screws broken if the mainframe is mishandled or
poorly packed for shipping.
3:53 p.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
There are the snap on bottom feet and also the screw
on rear feet that
are in some sense really only feet if you stand it up vertically on
end. I assume he is taking about the screw on rear feet here, which
can get their mounting screws broken if the mainframe is mishandled or
poorly packed for shipping.
Yes, I'm talking about the screw-on rear feet.
One missing screw, one bent screw (!), and two OK.
As far as "poorly packed for shipping" goes, it wasn't packed at all for
its last journey. It spent four hours sitting on its side on the back
seat of a Toyota Avensis, secured with the seatbelt (much fun!).
The boot (=trunk) was full of other "junk".
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
2 Dec
2 Dec
10:55 a.m.
The differences between the workstation (HP9000)
keyboards and early Vectra
keyboards are the function keys MSDOS needs different functions as HP-UX or
RMB are using.
Do the letter keys, etc, send the same keycodes on a 46030 and a 46020?
Or are they totally differeent.
What keyoard should an HP150-II use (it has an HP-HIL interface)? I
thought mine came with a 46020, and it seemed to work correctly.
-tony
5274
days inactive
5277
days old
21 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl