Check out
http://www.ecomstation.org as an example of a website supporting
an operating system on an architecture. I was pretty impressed (but then
I'm an OS/2 user) :-)
Regards,
Jeff
In <3BDF80A1.4070900(a)aurora.regenstrief.org>rg>, on 10/30/01
at 11:40 PM, Gunther Schadow <gunther(a)aurora.regenstrief.org> said:
O.K. as I said in the beginning I really don't like
organizational
issues. That's why I'm getting nervous about the goals here.
I do agree that Sellam's thing is perhaps the best
point to
start. However, ...
We certainly don't need another mailing list. With
port-vax
and classiccmp (and occasionally comp.os.vms) we have what we need.
Certainly we don't need a new style online forum ... those are
notoriously non-populated.
I also don't have a sophisticated portal web site
in mind.
Something simple that states the mission of the organization, a few
articles about why preserving classic computing
equipment is good. Something that plays down the collectible asset value
(that's important in many respects!). And most
important a list of people and their collections and activities all over
the country and the world. Linking to their project web sites.
The web site must be simple so it's maintainable.
vintage.org is fairly
simple, but even so some links and features on the front page don't work,
and that shouldn't be. Rather have
less stuff that does the job.
About local chapters and national meetings etc. I'm
sceptical too. It
couldn't hurt for some of us weirdos to come out and have some face to
face interaction with real humans, OTOH, this takes even more time away
for those who are already struggling having a family life and their
collection (aside from making a living.) We don't want to steal people
from their spouses and kids.
I guess that Isildur is right, the non-profit
incorporation would be most
critical. This would actually provide incentives for folks who have stuff
to decommission. Instead of competing against scrap dealers we would have
an advantage of a tax deduction for old stuff. That's also why I think we
must downplay the
collectible asset value. This should be for the fun and curiosity and
public service of preservation, and, if possible, public use of the old
stuff. It should not be to promote a new fad of collectible items in
order to boost a market, issue price guides, promote pocket book driven
collections. The PDP-8 market is already going that way.
BTW: that's also why I appreciate a clear cut
between the
vintage.org and the
vintagetech.com things. I wouldn't ask
Sellam to move any money from his business to the association but the
appearence of a for-profit business next to VCF
should not be confounding the non-profit nature of the
association either.
In terms of the need for funds, I'm mostly
interested in
a "dachorganization" that would make it possible to put
old computers into public use. Help those that do. If you
run a cluster of VAX 11/780, 8600, and couple of 6000s with
full gear, this makes no sense for the privatier to do
24/7 in terms of electricity. Add the costs of a decent
Internet connection too. If you want to show blinkenlights
(like the cyber PDP-8) you need an even better Internet
connection.
The whole point of mainframes is multi-user
applications, so it's only
natural that the 11/780 wants to serve users
through the network. One way of doing this would be a
"vintage-pass" available to the public for a
fee and for members at a discount. The vintage-pass would
give people accounts on the systems of all members. This
could have multiple levels, like dec-pass, vax-pass, pdp-pass, ibm-pass,
etc. It would include various levels of service,
such as guest-account, individual-user account, up to
sysadmin-account. Optional operator services (Joe Jones
mails his old PDP-11 tapes to bring his old work back
to life, etc.) You (or your wife or kids) put the tape in
and go.
There would be some ethics and legal issues involved.
On
the one hand rules of conduct by the users, monitoring
malicious activity (e.g., cool things like the killer-
poke on the PET 2001) to a revival of the worm of 1988.
Certainly special scrutiny applies for operator or sysadmin
accounts. On the other hand the privacy of the user and
his data.
This is kind of the space I was thinking about.
Organizing cyber events, video-conferences, a worm of
1988
revival fest, could be periodic highlights that warrant
press releases and may draw attention. Perhaps more than
an annual meeting that people won't usually attend anyway.
regards
-Gunther
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct
2001, Jeffrey Sharp wrote:
>I think that what is needed most is an international organization that
>covers *all* vintage computers, software, and docs. We need something
>that's implemented well enough that most of us would be convinced to
join.
>The best starting point I can think of is
Sellam's VCF organization:
>
>* He already has one of the largest inventories of us all. That's a
good
start
towards a "Noah's ark" collection, which I think should be one
function of the organization.
This is in fact one of my missions. I know I won't be able to get
every
single model of every single computer, but I can
get close. And this
has
applications of both practicality and posterity.
>* He's got
www.vintage.org, which would be a primo domain name for the
> organization.
>
>* He's got
www.vintagetech.com, which would be the fundraising part of
the
organization. Dues could be another.
Um, for now, the funds that VintageTech generates are intended for the
Sellam Ismail organization of getting by ;)
* He's got experience running VCFs.
True dat.
>Of course, Sellam would have to be interested in being the
organization's
fearless
leader!
I appreciate being nominated for this lofty organization. In fact,
what
you've described is what I've been
working towards for the past 4-5
years.
It's just gone much slower and taken much
longer than anticipated due
to
distractions and detours in my life. And this is
hard work,
especially
for one guy.
>Other things the organiztion could do:
>
>* A central, Yahoo-like web site that would become the world's
foremost
> resource for vintage computer information.
It would try to
replicate
> all available information for preservation.
Individual members
would
> also be given a mechanism to have their
collection hosted on the
site
> under a uniform interface. Those who resist
assimilation could
still
> have their sites linked to. You could get
to info either by
> collector name or a category/manufacturer/series/model tree. It
would
be
wonderful...
One day the VCF website will be this portal.
>* SIGs would, of course, solidify according to demand. I imagine the
VAX
> SIG (VSIG?) would be quite well represented.
Each SIG could have
its
own
mailing list. The whole thing would be not unlike the FreeBSD
mailing list system.
One of the next things on the agenda (after finishing the VCF
Marketplace)
is a messaging system. Of course, I don't
know how useful this will
be in
the face of this list and other very active and
strong lists. I'll
put
the tools out there, it'll be up to folks to
put them to good use.
* Rename itself from VCF to IVCA.
"International Vintage Computing
Association" to outsiders, "International Vintage Computing Asylum"
for insiders. :-)
The VCF will eventually become an international "society" dedicated to
the
preservation of old computers and computer
history. The VCF events
are to
be yearly gatherings that cap off activities that
occur throughout the
year. My desire for the past couple years has been to sponsor local
computer collector clubs throughout the world, to create local
interest
that then grows into a connected network of
clubs.
>* I don't know... other stuff.
>
>As you can see, I'm all about grandiose ideas. Now won't someone rise
up
and
implement them? :-)
Me too. If I could get organized enough to create an actual
organization
then things would move faster. Of course it
would require the
sacrifices
of other people interested in seeing this vision
implemented.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
>
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Jeffrey S. Worley
Asheville, NC USA
828-6984887
UberTechnoid(a)Home.com
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