30 Dec
2008
30 Dec
'08
12:21 a.m.
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ
<gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
Alexandre Souza wrote:
> The SBC6120 is a **real nice** SBC...
Yes it is, and it's back in "print"!
... [I] wish I had saved a T-11 (was it?)
> processor from many of the arcade boards I saw going to trash...I do not
> even know how to operate a PDP, but it would be something fun to learn :o)
T-11s aren't terribly rare. Perhaps not as common as other 40-pin
CPUs from the 1980s but they can be found on DEC boards and in at
least one DEC terminal. The issue of using one in a modern
SBC6120-like board has been brought up from time to time, and one of
the limitations I think I recall is that they don't have a MMU and,
unlike the F-11, there wasn't one for it, severely limiting your OS
choices. Between that and it not being simple to emulate DEC
interfaces down to the CSR level, turning a T-11 into a bootable
PDP-11 isn't easy at all. Making a 64KB board that runs PDP-11
instructions isn't hard - but then what do you do for software? It's
a harder problem to solve than on the PDP-8 since there really is only
one dominant OS there (plus a lot of OS-less paper-tape software).
Writing _a_ disk driver for one OS for your new disk (such as with the
SBC6120) isn't a terrible obstacle. For the PDP-11, you have to
consider that folks would be interested in RT-11, RSX, RSTS, and
several varieties of UNIX.
The T-11 would make a fun little board if you happen to know or want
to learn the PDP-11 instruction set and have a use in mind for some
configuration smaller than a console line and a disk/disk emulator.
I think I asked the question a couple of years ago,
about which "classic"
non-typical CPUs turned up in arcade machines. I seem to recall someone
saying that the T-11 was used in Paperboy.
Yeah... I remember reading about the T-11 in Paperboy some time back
and was quite surprised. Large quantities of video games spanned the
progression over the years from 8080 to Z-80 and 6809 to 68000 as
complexity and sound and color advanced, and there were a few games
here and there with something odd like a 6502, but the rare appearance
of a T-11 really stood out for me. I never played Paperboy much, and
I haven't seen too many of the machines in the wild since I learned
they hid a T-11 inside.
-ethan
30 Dec
30 Dec
12:40 a.m.
On 29 Dec 2008 at 19:21, Ethan Dicks wrote:
The T-11 would make a fun little board if you happen
to know or want
to learn the PDP-11 instruction set and have a use in mind for some
configuration smaller than a console line and a disk/disk emulator.
On the other hand, the Russians used their clone of a PDP-11
microprocessor in a bunch of products--even a pocket calculator.
Cheers,
Chuck
1:58 a.m.
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 29 Dec 2008 at 19:21, Ethan Dicks wrote:
True! A calculator or hand-held electronic game is just the sort of
thing a T-11 would be good for.
It should be as easy to design in as a 68000, and a lot of fun to program.
Hmm... a T-11-based PDA... just stick an LCD on it, add a keypad and
some flash...
-ethan
The T-11 would make a fun little board if you
happen to know or want
to learn the PDP-11 instruction set and have a use in mind for some
configuration smaller than a console line and a disk/disk emulator.
On the other hand, the Russians used their clone of a PDP-11
microprocessor in a bunch of products--even a pocket calculator. 
2:25 a.m.
True! A calculator or hand-held electronic game is
just the sort of
thing a T-11 would be good for.
It should be as easy to design in as a 68000, and a lot of fun to program.
Heck, Atari Games used the T-11 heavily.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Space is limited/In a haiku so it's hard/To finish what you - Tristan Miller
31 Dec
31 Dec
4 a.m.
On the other hand, the Russians used their clone of a
PDP-11
microprocessor in a bunch of products--even a pocket calculator.
You are refering to the bk1011 series of machines if i recall
correctly, which are instructionset wise equivelant to a baseline
pdp11/23+ without CIS or float, but with a 22bit adress bus, there are
essentially 2 variants of this machine (with some subvariations in
amount of memory), the first is a wedgestyle (think C64 etc.)
homecomputer, which has their implementation of the 11/23 chipset,
with very very slow DRAM, running at 3.58MHz. and memory mapped bitmap
graphics, which also has a inrom emulation of a console device for the
RT-11 derived (presumedly from stolen or reverse
engineered/disassembled code), the interesting part of this machine is
though, is that it has a QBUS connector on the back of the machine,
which allows for a wide variation of (homebrewn!) addons for the
machine, i think it also has a custom local network protocol (non
rs4xx) for connecting several together to a larger soviet produced
minicomputer (i do not know what one would be used for that).
The second variant is architecturally the same, and used the same
microprocessor implementation of the -11, but is in the format of a
large graphing calculator, and is functionally equivelant to say, a
Ti81, but with very slow graphics plot from what i recall from a
ukrainian telling me about it :-), it is not freely programmable
though, and you can only run some simple BASIC-esque interpreter on
it, together with the calculator software in ROM.
the Homecomputer versions are actually not that hard to get, and go
for fairly reasonable prices on ebay (i paid 80 euros for mine
including shipping from ukraine), but the graphing calculator version
of the machine will sell for up to 500 euros, of special interest is,
that the graphing calculator was possibly the last produced consumer
computer from soviet design (it was released in 1991 from what i
recall), altough its not completely soviet from what i read, the LCD
screen was actually a western imported part.
All the best, a very very sleepy Locutus.
4:47 a.m.
On the other hand, the Russians used their clone of a
PDP-11
microprocessor in a bunch of products--even a pocket calculator.
You are refering to the bk1011 series of machines if i recall
correctly, which are instructionset wise equivelant to a baseline
pdp11/23+ without CIS or float, but with a 22bit adress bus, there are
essentially 2 variants of this machine (with some subvariations in
amount of memory), the first is a wedgestyle (think C64 etc.)
homecomputer, which has their implementation of the 11/23 chipset,
with very very slow DRAM, running at 3.58MHz. and memory mapped bitmap
graphics, which also has a inrom emulation of a console device for the
RT-11 derived (presumedly from stolen or reverse
engineered/disassembled code), the interesting part of this machine is
though, is that it has a QBUS connector on the back of the machine,
which allows for a wide variation of (homebrewn!) addons for the
machine, i think it also has a custom local network protocol (non
rs4xx) for connecting several together to a larger soviet produced
minicomputer (i do not know what one would be used for that).
The second variant is architecturally the same, and used the same
microprocessor implementation of the -11, but is in the format of a
large graphing calculator, and is functionally equivelant to say, a
Ti81, but with very slow graphics plot from what i recall from a
ukrainian telling me about it :-), it is not freely programmable
though, and you can only run some simple BASIC-esque interpreter on
it, together with the calculator software in ROM.
the Homecomputer versions are actually not that hard to get, and go
for fairly reasonable prices on ebay (i paid 80 euros for mine
including shipping from ukraine), but the graphing calculator version
of the machine will sell for up to 500 euros, of special interest is,
that the graphing calculator was possibly the last produced consumer
computer from soviet design (it was released in 1991 from what i
recall), altough its not completely soviet from what i read, the LCD
screen was actually a western imported part.
All the best, a very very sleepy Locutus.
4:47 a.m.
On the other hand, the Russians used their clone of a
PDP-11
microprocessor in a bunch of products--even a pocket calculator.
You are refering to the bk1011 series of machines if i recall
correctly, which are instructionset wise equivelant to a baseline
pdp11/23+ without CIS or float, but with a 22bit adress bus, there are
essentially 2 variants of this machine (with some subvariations in
amount of memory), the first is a wedgestyle (think C64 etc.)
homecomputer, which has their implementation of the 11/23 chipset,
with very very slow DRAM, running at 3.58MHz. and memory mapped bitmap
graphics, which also has a inrom emulation of a console device for the
RT-11 derived (presumedly from stolen or reverse
engineered/disassembled code), the interesting part of this machine is
though, is that it has a QBUS connector on the back of the machine,
which allows for a wide variation of (homebrewn!) addons for the
machine, i think it also has a custom local network protocol (non
rs4xx) for connecting several together to a larger soviet produced
minicomputer (i do not know what one would be used for that).
The second variant is architecturally the same, and used the same
microprocessor implementation of the -11, but is in the format of a
large graphing calculator, and is functionally equivelant to say, a
Ti81, but with very slow graphics plot from what i recall from a
ukrainian telling me about it :-), it is not freely programmable
though, and you can only run some simple BASIC-esque interpreter on
it, together with the calculator software in ROM.
the Homecomputer versions are actually not that hard to get, and go
for fairly reasonable prices on ebay (i paid 80 euros for mine
including shipping from ukraine), but the graphing calculator version
of the machine will sell for up to 500 euros, of special interest is,
that the graphing calculator was possibly the last produced consumer
computer from soviet design (it was released in 1991 from what i
recall), altough its not completely soviet from what i read, the LCD
screen was actually a western imported part.
All the best, a very very sleepy Locutus
31 Dec
31 Dec
12:29 a.m.
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Gordon JC Pearce
MM3YEQ
<gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
Wait, what's this?! It's back?! Holy cow! OK, I just ordered one.
I missed my chance last time, I won't miss it again!
(Where on EARTH did Bob find a new supply of 6120s?)
-Seth
Alexandre Souza wrote:
> The SBC6120 is a **real nice** SBC...
Yes it is, and it's back in "print"! 
5858
days inactive
5859
days old
10 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
locutus＠puscii.nl -
sethm＠loomcom.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com