7 Jul
2006
7 Jul
'06
9:31 a.m.
I'm just about to stick an OS on the newly-acquired NeXT Slab (thanks to local
Freecycle list for providing, and Witchy for picking it up!)
Questions:
CDROM - do I need a 2048 bytes/sector one or 512 bytes/sector? (I have both
available, but it just saves me guessing the type!)
SCSI bus - in order to hang a (terminated, obviously) CDROM off the external
SCSI connector, do I need to enable/disable termination on the system board
somewhere, and/or enable/disable termination on the internal drive? (I'm not
sure if the internal drive is one end of the SCSI bus, or just a short spur
off the bus)
Memory - Can these things take more than 32MB? Purely curious - I don't even
know if such a thing as an 8MB 30 pin SIMM exists (this Slab currently has 8 x
4MB modules in it)
(I did get manuals with this, but they're right at the bottom of everything
else that's in the car!)
cheers
Jules
7 Jul
7 Jul
11:30 a.m.
You need one with 512 byte/sector capability. A good rule of thumb,
if it will boot a Sgi or Sun box, it will boot a NeXT. I use Toshiba's
on my NeXT equipment. The external SCSI chain will auto sense the
presence of the external device, so just terminate the external drive
and everything will be cool. I've always used SCSI ID 6 for my CD-ROM
- why I don't know but it's always worked for me. The default SCSI ID
of the internal drive is 1.
The internal drive is on the internal leg of the bus, so it's
termination is seperate from the external leg of the bus.
I've never tried to run more than 32mb in a non-Turbo chipset slab. I
recently got some 16mb SIMMS. Maybe I should experiment.
On 7/7/06, Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I'm just about to stick an OS on the newly-acquired NeXT Slab (thanks to local
Freecycle list for providing, and Witchy for picking it up!)
Questions:
CDROM - do I need a 2048 bytes/sector one or 512 bytes/sector? (I have both
available, but it just saves me guessing the type!)
SCSI bus - in order to hang a (terminated, obviously) CDROM off the external
SCSI connector, do I need to enable/disable termination on the system board
somewhere, and/or enable/disable termination on the internal drive? (I'm not
sure if the internal drive is one end of the SCSI bus, or just a short spur
off the bus)
Memory - Can these things take more than 32MB? Purely curious - I don't even
know if such a thing as an 8MB 30 pin SIMM exists (this Slab currently has 8 x
4MB modules in it)
(I did get manuals with this, but they're right at the bottom of everything
else that's in the car!)
cheers
Jules
--
www.blackcube.org - The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers
www.blackcube.org/personal/index.html - Personal web page
11:32 a.m.
All,
On 7/7/06, Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Questions:
CDROM - do I need a 2048 bytes/sector one or 512 bytes/sector? (I have both
available, but it just saves me guessing the type!)
512 bytes/sector.
SCSI bus - in order to hang a (terminated, obviously)
CDROM off the external
SCSI connector, do I need to enable/disable termination on the system board
somewhere, and/or enable/disable termination on the internal drive? (I'm not
sure if the internal drive is one end of the SCSI bus, or just a short spur
off the bus)
I think the slab needs external termination. It was many years ago
that I had access to one - but I seem to remember a terminator on the
external SCSI connector even with no external devices.
Memory - Can these things take more than 32MB? Purely
curious - I don't even
know if such a thing as an 8MB 30 pin SIMM exists (this Slab currently has 8 x
4MB modules in it)
Pass.
Simon
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, an engineer is not concerned with the truth; that is left to
philosophers and theologians: the prime concern of an engineer is
the utility of the final product."
Lectures on the Electrical Properties of Materials, L.Solymar, D.Walsh
12:34 p.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
CDROM - do I need a 2048 bytes/sector one or 512
bytes/sector?
512 it would seem... I guessed and stuck my old Apple-branded CDROM on there,
didn't change any of the SCSI termination, booted the floppy, and off it went.
It's now got NeXTSTEP 3.2 running on there, with the developer tools
installing as we speak....
I love it when hardware and software just works like that - such a rare thing!
Memory - Can these things take more than 32MB?
Still not got to the bottom of that one, though. There are only 8 30-pin
sockets on the system board (websites lead me to believe that some slab models
had 72-pin sockets instead), but the memory info option in the boot firmware
curiously shows 32MB in two 16MB banks, and in addition reports half the banks
as empty - as though the *system* can physically address more memory, but that
the system board just doesn't have the physical sockets to put any more in...
Bloody nice machines, though.
cheers
Jules
11:49 a.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
Still not got to the bottom of that one, though. There
are only 8 30-pin
sockets on the system board (websites lead me to believe that some slab
models had 72-pin sockets instead), but the memory info option in the
boot firmware curiously shows 32MB in two 16MB banks, and in addition
reports half the banks as empty - as though the *system* can physically
address more memory, but that the system board just doesn't have the
physical sockets to put any more in...
I have a Turbo Color Slab which takes 72-pin SIMMs. If I had to guess,
I'd probably guess that only the '040 slabs have 72-pin sockets.
If memory serves, there are four sockets in my slab.
Peace... Sridhar
11:50 a.m.
On 7/7/06, Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
All Turbo chip set models had 72 pin sockets. There were a few
non-Turbo (25mhz) machines that had the Turbo chip set and 72 pin
sockets but ran at 25mhz. I have one of those odd ball machines. I
have heard of a slab with a Turbo chip set and 30 pin SIMM sockets but
have not seen one. That may be what you have. Interesting.
Jules Richardson wrote:
I love it when hardware and software just works like that - such a rare thing!
That was one of the beautiful things about NeXT's. Usually everything
just works.
Memory - Can these things take more than 32MB?
Still not got to the bottom of that one, though. There are only 8 30-pin
sockets on the system board (websites lead me to believe that some slab models
had 72-pin sockets instead), but the memory info option in the boot firmware
curiously shows 32MB in two 16MB banks, and in addition reports half the banks
as empty - as though the *system* can physically address more memory, but that
the system board just doesn't have the physical sockets to put any more in...
Bloody nice machines, though.
Agreed. My first love is still the Cube, but the slabs are very nice.
cheers
Jules
--
www.blackcube.org - The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers
www.blackcube.org/personal/index.html - Personal web page
1:07 p.m.
James Rice wrote:
I was at least expecting some sort of disaster about the 1.2GB hard disk that
I dropped in there - having googled a bit it seems people had a hell of a job
adding drives to the system post-install and crafting the appropriate geometry
entries. Appears that there isn't a problem at OS install-time though; it
figured it all out for me happily (and has given me usable space about 40
blocks shy of the full disk capacity).
I'd love to find a Cube. Or even a colour slab. But considering I've been
searching for *any* NeXT for the last 3 years, I'm happy :-)
That display's probably the most clear and crisp I've ever used on any system
(no doubt it benefits from being mono - but it even beats all the mono systems
I've ever used hands-down)
cheers
Jules
I love it when
hardware and software just works like that - such a rare
thing!
That was one of the beautiful things about NeXT's. Usually everything
just works. All Turbo chip set models had 72 pin sockets. There
were a few
non-Turbo (25mhz) machines that had the Turbo chip set and 72 pin
sockets but ran at 25mhz. I have one of those odd ball machines. I
have heard of a slab with a Turbo chip set and 30 pin SIMM sockets but
have not seen one. That may be what you have. Interesting.
Hmm, well this machine is an '040 @ 25MHz, but with the 30 pin sockets. I'm
not sure if that's a Turbo or not? I always thought the Turbo was exclusively
an '040 @ 33MHz - but quite possibly it's *any* '040 slab regardless of
speed?
Bloody nice
machines, though.
Agreed. My first love is still the Cube, but the slabs are very nice.
12:47 p.m.
On 7/7/06, Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I was at least expecting some sort of disaster about
the 1.2GB hard disk that
I dropped in there - having googled a bit it seems people had a hell of a job
adding drives to the system post-install and crafting the appropriate geometry
entries. Appears that there isn't a problem at OS install-time though; it
figured it all out for me happily (and has given me usable space about 40
blocks shy of the full disk capacity).
Most of the time, drives <2.1gb just work. I did have some issues
with some Compaq ROMed Seagates but most others were seamless. Above
2gb you need a disktab.
Hmm, well this machine is an '040 @ 25MHz, but with the 30 pin sockets. I'm
not sure if that's a Turbo or not? I always thought the Turbo was exclusively
an '040 @ 33MHz - but quite possibly it's *any* '040 slab regardless of
speed?
Only those with the later chip set are Turbo machnies, even if they
run at 25mhz. The 25mhz slabs with the Turbo chip set are not real
common and were kind of a transitional thing.
I'd love to find a Cube. Or even a colour slab.
But considering I've been
searching for *any* NeXT for the last 3 years, I'm happy :-)
Are they that rare in the UK? I still find them for free around here
(Dallas). Now Turbo Cubes and Dimension boards are another story. I
sold my spare Dimension board this spring within the first hour of
listing it in a users forum. I still have a spare 25mhz '040 Cube to
sell later this fall.
--
www.blackcube.org - The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers
www.blackcube.org/personal/index.html - Personal web page
3:36 p.m.
Right,
Next question ;)
I've stuck NeXTStep 3.2 on the machine, but it seems to have configured the
box to boot straight into a default user called 'me' rather than offering me a
login dialog (NeXT's equivalent to XDM).
I'm *assuming* that there aren't any post-install steps that NeXT are
expecting me to do as the 'me' user, prior to using the box as a complete
system. (I don't have docs for 3.2)
Purely for the purposes of installing other software, I'd quite like to change
the system to prompt for a login name at startup though - anyone recall how to
do this?
That way I can log in as root and have the full desktop environment available,
rather than having to drop to a shell and issuing 'su', working out the
locations / names of the file browser etc. that I need, figuring out CDROM
mounting and all that other fun stuff.
I'll get to the manuals tomorrow, but I'm almost certain they won't cover OS
setup, and even if they did would be the wrong version anyway :-)
Initial (and only, so far) irritation: the mouse is too darn slow. Even on
maximum speed setting, it's still sluggish compared to what I'm used to, and
needs far too much desk movement to get it across the screen. Funnily enough I
found exactly the same thing with the BeBox - so it's possibly a trait of
early 90's GUIs...
cheers
Jules
2:44 p.m.
Purely for the purposes of installing other software,
I'd quite like to change
the system to prompt for a login name at startup though - anyone recall how to
do this?
That way I can log in as root and have the full desktop environment available,
rather than having to drop to a shell and issuing 'su', working out the
locations / names of the file browser etc. that I need, figuring out CDROM
mounting and all that other fun stuff.
IIRC, you simply tell it you want to install additional software and it
prompts you for the root password. Of course it's been 5+ years since I
gave my NeXT slab away so I might be remembering wrong.
Zane
4:12 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Rats, not in this case :-) It got about 90% of the way through installing the
developer stuff then started complaining about permissions problems. I can
only assume that it tried running as 'me' and then died doing on some of the
filesystem modification steps.
cheers
Jules
Purely for the
purposes of installing other software, I'd quite like to change
the system to prompt for a login name at startup though - anyone recall how to
do this?
That way I can log in as root and have the full desktop environment available,
rather than having to drop to a shell and issuing 'su', working out the
locations / names of the file browser etc. that I need, figuring out CDROM
mounting and all that other fun stuff.
IIRC, you simply tell it you want to install additional software and it
prompts you for the root password. Of course it's been 5+ years since I
gave my NeXT slab away so I might be remembering wrong.
3:42 p.m.
As I recall, open a terminal window and set the password for the "me"
user. Then log out. When you log back in it will ask for the user
name and password. You can then log in as root and set the root
password. most of the NeXT unix shell commands are pure 3.x BSD. Or
was it 2.x, I can't remember.
--
www.blackcube.org - The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers
www.blackcube.org/personal/index.html - Personal web page
7 p.m.
On Fri, July 7, 2006 8:36 pm, Jules Richardson said:
change
the system to prompt for a login name at startup though - anyone recall
how to
do this?
Hm, no real answer from me; my slab came with a root user already built
in, and for the life of me I can't remember how I got root access when I
did a total reinstall onto a new disk. I'm fairly sure James Rice was a
help here.
I'll get to the manuals tomorrow, but I'm
almost certain they won't cover
OS
setup, and even if they did would be the wrong version anyway :-)
If I can do it blind then you can too. I even patched mine with the y2k
install and did other stuff without help, pity I'm 250 miles away from
mine right now.
needs far too much desk movement to get it across the
screen. Funnily
enough I
found exactly the same thing with the BeBox - so it's possibly a trait of
early 90's GUIs...
Yep, that's an irritation for me too.
--
adrian/witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection?
6585
days inactive
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12 comments
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participants (6)
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fryers＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
james.rice＠gmail.com -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk