30 Jan
2015
30 Jan
'15
4:33 a.m.
Has anyone used this software
ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/README against a real pdp11? I'm
trying to use it to install a disk image on my 11/34, now, and after keying
in the initial code, it appears to happily upload the first file
(standalone 'copy') quite successfully, but then hangs. Since Warren has
no real pdp11s, I'm wondering if the emulators he used whilst authoring
this VTserver do something different than a real '11 that keeps the program
from proceeding.
thx
jake
30 Jan
30 Jan
5:10 a.m.
Has anyone used this software
ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/README against a real
pdp11?
I have, and I know others have.
I had to fiddle with the boot code to get it to work properly with my
/93. I may have also fiddled with the expect/send bits of vtserver
itself where it's uploading the boot code; it's been a while, and the
first thing to go is the kidney between the ears.
De
5:27 a.m.
Thanks Dennis. Did you, perchance, modify it to speak to the old 11/34
console emulator (unlikely since you mention an 11/93 (Lucky!)) ? I think
maybe that device doesn't speak proper "ODT," or perhaps a dialect of it
that VTserver may not have been expecting as mine won't auto-feed the
initial stuff to the '11 and I have to key it all in manually (ugh). I
might write code to mitigate this if I get really motivated.
Then again, I tried to use vtserver on a modern macintosh, which may have
been my folly. Trying again with a nice old OpenSolaris SPARC next before
diving into hard debugging...
tips / suggestions (other than "run Linux") welcome.
thx
jake
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:10 AM, Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> wrote:
Has anyone
used this software
ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/README against a real
pdp11?
I have, and I know others have.
I had to fiddle with the boot code to get it to work properly with my
/93. I may have also fiddled with the expect/send bits of vtserver
itself where it's uploading the boot code; it's been a while, and the
first thing to go is the kidney between the ears.
De
6:38 a.m.
Sweet, recompiling VTserver on a rather ancient version of OpenSolaris
(Illumos) did the trick. Still not sure why I ever "switched" to the $#%^$
Mac, although I have to admit that the candy colors (especially in the
pinwheel) sure are pretty.
Man, it feels good to be back on the old workhorse Sun.
Big thanks to Warren, if you're listening out there, for writing this
clever little program!
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>
wrote:
Thanks Dennis. Did you, perchance, modify it to speak
to the old 11/34
console emulator (unlikely since you mention an 11/93 (Lucky!)) ? I think
maybe that device doesn't speak proper "ODT," or perhaps a dialect of it
that VTserver may not have been expecting as mine won't auto-feed the
initial stuff to the '11 and I have to key it all in manually (ugh). I
might write code to mitigate this if I get really motivated.
Then again, I tried to use vtserver on a modern macintosh, which may have
been my folly. Trying again with a nice old OpenSolaris SPARC next before
diving into hard debugging...
tips / suggestions (other than "run Linux") welcome.
thx
jake
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:10 AM, Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> wrote:
Has
anyone used this software
ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/README against a real
pdp11?
I have, and I know others have.
I had to fiddle with the boot code to get it to work properly with my
/93. I may have also fiddled with the expect/send bits of vtserver
itself where it's uploading the boot code; it's been a while, and the
first thing to go is the kidney between the ears.
De
2:04 p.m.
I have used it quite a bit, and it always "just worked" for me. Wonderful piece
of software. I should do something similar for the 21MX :)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Ritorto
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 10:34 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Warren's 'VTserver'
Has anyone used this software
ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/README against a real pdp11? I'm trying to
use it to install a disk image on my 11/34, now, and after keying in the initial code, it
appears to happily upload the first file (standalone 'copy') quite successfully,
but then hangs. Since Warren has no real pdp11s, I'm wondering if the emulators he
used whilst authoring this VTserver do something different than a real '11 that keeps
the program from proceeding.
thx
jake
3:34 p.m.
I too have used VTserver many times. It's a delightfully clever tool. And
don't forget, that for PDP-8 there's David Gesswein's dumprest, which also
works very well. I've used VTserver to build RK05s for Unix 6th Ed. on my
11/34 and dumprest to build RK05s for OS/8 on LCM's 8/e.
Jacob, I don't know why it would have hung for you unless the copy program
is buggered. I used VTserver without modification and without problem. --
Ian
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Jay West <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I have used it quite a bit, and it always "just
worked" for me. Wonderful
piece of software. I should do something similar for the 21MX :)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jacob
Ritorto
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 10:34 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Warren's 'VTserver'
Has anyone used this software
ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/README against a real pdp11?
I'm trying to use it to install a disk image on my 11/34, now, and after
keying in the initial code, it appears to happily upload the first file
(standalone 'copy') quite successfully, but then hangs. Since Warren has
no real pdp11s, I'm wondering if the emulators he used whilst authoring
this VTserver do something different than a real '11 that keeps the program
from proceeding.
thx
jake
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS
Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School
University of Washington
An optimist sees a glass half full. A pessimist sees it half empty. An
engineer sees it twice as large as it needs to be.
7:11 p.m.
As I mentioned some hours ago, compiling it on a real unix machine instead
of the Mac cleared up the problem and now it's working, as you put it,
"delightfully."
It literally does delight me to just watch it run and blink the lights,
etc. :)
Honestly, my first inclination is that there was a problem with the cheap
usb-to-serial dongle I was using mangling characters. I've seen it
senselessly corrupt output from the pdp11 before.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Ian S. King <isking at uw.edu> wrote:
I too have used VTserver many times. It's a
delightfully clever tool. And
don't forget, that for PDP-8 there's David Gesswein's dumprest, which also
works very well. I've used VTserver to build RK05s for Unix 6th Ed. on my
11/34 and dumprest to build RK05s for OS/8 on LCM's 8/e.
Jacob, I don't know why it would have hung for you unless the copy program
is buggered. I used VTserver without modification and without problem. --
Ian
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Jay West <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I have used it quite a bit, and it always
"just worked" for me. Wonderful
piece of software. I should do something similar for the 21MX :)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jacob
Ritorto
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 10:34 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Warren's 'VTserver'
Has anyone used this software
ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/README against a real pdp11?
I'm trying to use it to install a disk image on my 11/34, now, and after
keying in the initial code, it appears to happily upload the first file
(standalone 'copy') quite successfully, but then hangs. Since Warren has
no real pdp11s, I'm wondering if the emulators he used whilst authoring
this VTserver do something different than a real '11 that keeps the
program
from proceeding.
thx
jake
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS
Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School
University of Washington
An optimist sees a glass half full. A pessimist sees it half empty. An
engineer sees it twice as large as it needs to be.
7:18 p.m.
There is something odd in getting the Mac to talk through a USB ->serial
cable.
I was having similar problems trying to get my MBP->USB->serial setup
working with my Sun v880.
The biggest problem seems to be that all the funky cables each have their
own special drivers, and the manufacturers don't keep the drivers up to
date with all the OS X releases.
I eventually broke down and got a program called 'Serial' - the company
that makes it seems to have a business model of getting the serial cables
from any and all manufacturers working.
It was $20, but I'd rather have one laptop that can talk to all my boxes
and do my other work as well.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>
wrote:
As I mentioned some hours ago, compiling it on a real
unix machine instead
of the Mac cleared up the problem and now it's working, as you put it,
"delightfully."
It literally does delight me to just watch it run and blink the lights,
etc. :)
Honestly, my first inclination is that there was a problem with the cheap
usb-to-serial dongle I was using mangling characters. I've seen it
senselessly corrupt output from the pdp11 before.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Ian S. King <isking at uw.edu> wrote:
I too have used VTserver many times. It's a
delightfully clever tool.
And
don't forget, that for PDP-8 there's
David Gesswein's dumprest, which
also
works very well. I've used VTserver to build
RK05s for Unix 6th Ed. on
my
11/34 and dumprest to build RK05s for OS/8 on
LCM's 8/e.
Jacob, I don't know why it would have hung for you unless the copy
program
is buggered. I used VTserver without
modification and without problem.
--
Ian
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Jay West <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I have used it quite a bit, and it always "just worked" for me.
Wonderful
> piece of software. I should do something
similar for the 21MX :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jacob
> Ritorto
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 10:34 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Warren's 'VTserver'
>
> Has anyone used this software
> ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/README against a real pdp11?
> I'm trying to use it to install a disk image on my 11/34, now, and
after
> keying in the initial code, it appears to
happily upload the first file
> (standalone 'copy') quite successfully, but then hangs. Since Warren
has
no real
pdp11s, I'm wondering if the emulators he used whilst authoring
this VTserver do something different than a real '11 that keeps the
program
from proceeding.
thx
jake
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS
Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School
University of Washington
An optimist sees a glass half full. A pessimist sees it half empty. An
engineer sees it twice as large as it needs to be.
7:25 p.m.
Yeah, why is serial so dodgy on Mac? I had to manually load kernel
extensions for the PL2303 usb/serial uart, and now it works for normal
stuff. Code was on github or something. Nice and hackerly.
I think when things get weird, like 7-bit ASCII or weird stuff that's not
even normal characters, the thing just falls over. I get totally normal
behaviour when using it with RT-11, RSX-11M, XXDP, but as soon as I boot
2.9BSD, the thing goes wild.
Using my old SPARC workstation (with it's REAL serial port) to run VTserver
has solved the problem (and has also given me an excuse to have ANOTHER
neat old machine in the library and out of storage :)
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Todd Killingsworth <
killingsworth.todd at gmail.com> wrote:
There is something odd in getting the Mac to talk
through a USB ->serial
cable.
I was having similar problems trying to get my MBP->USB->serial setup
working with my Sun v880.
The biggest problem seems to be that all the funky cables each have their
own special drivers, and the manufacturers don't keep the drivers up to
date with all the OS X releases.
I eventually broke down and got a program called 'Serial' - the company
that makes it seems to have a business model of getting the serial cables
from any and all manufacturers working.
It was $20, but I'd rather have one laptop that can talk to all my boxes
and do my other work as well.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>
wrote:
Jacob
file
authoring
As I mentioned some hours ago, compiling it on a
real unix machine
instead
of the Mac cleared up the problem and now
it's working, as you put it,
"delightfully."
It literally does delight me to just watch it run and blink the lights,
etc. :)
Honestly, my first inclination is that there was a problem with the cheap
usb-to-serial dongle I was using mangling characters. I've seen it
senselessly corrupt output from the pdp11 before.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Ian S. King <isking at uw.edu> wrote:
wrote:
I too have used VTserver many times. It's a
delightfully clever tool.
And
don't forget, that for PDP-8 there's
David Gesswein's dumprest, which
also
works very well. I've used VTserver to build
RK05s for Unix 6th Ed. on
my
11/34 and dumprest to build RK05s for OS/8 on
LCM's 8/e.
Jacob, I don't know why it would have hung for you unless the copy
program
is buggered. I used VTserver without
modification and without problem.
--
> Ian
>
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Jay West <jwest at classiccmp.org>
> I have used it quite a bit, and it always "just worked" for me.
Wonderful
> > piece of software. I should do something similar for the 21MX :)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > > Ritorto
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 10:34 PM
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > Subject: Warren's 'VTserver'
> >
> > Has anyone used this software
> > ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/README against a real
pdp11?
>
I'm trying to use it to install a disk image on my 11/34, now, and
after
> > keying in the initial code, it appears to happily upload the first >
(standalone 'copy') quite successfully, but then hangs. Since Warren
has
> > no real pdp11s, I'm wondering if the emulators he used whilst this VTserver do something different than a real
'11 that keeps the
program
from proceeding.
thx
jake
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS
Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School
University of Washington
An optimist sees a glass half full. A pessimist sees it half empty. An
engineer sees it twice as large as it needs to be.
3399
days inactive
3399
days old
11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
drb＠msu.edu -
imp＠bsdimp.com -
isking＠uw.edu -
jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
killingsworth.todd＠gmail.com