21 Sep
2014
21 Sep
'14
7:18 a.m.
A lot will depend on what you want to do.
<snip>
I was able to make a 8" DOS 6.22 boot disk, but you have to play around with
the 77 vs 80 tracks issue when spoofing a 1.2M 5 1/4" drive. Or just ignore
the errors at the end of the format, as it will still work enough to get by.
I told the computer BIOS I had a 1.2M 5 1/4" drive in A, and used the DBIT
adapter to connect to the 8" drive. It may matter what side of the twisted
drive cable the adapter is placed, so you'll have to play around with it.
I am assuming your drive controller and computer are compatible with the
hardware.
Format complete, use SYS command from DOS to move boot files to the disk to
make it bootable. Once you have the disk formatted it seems to work just
fine as a DOS diskette like any other, at least in my disk imaging system.
You can walk around and tell people you have a 8" boot drive on your PC, but
it's not as exciting to others as you might think.....ug. Anyway I made a
thread on my site about my adventures with imaging disks et al
http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=561
Bill
21 Sep
21 Sep
10:34 a.m.
On 09/21/2014 08:18 AM, Bill Degnan wrote:
Format complete, use SYS command from DOS to move boot
files to the disk to
make it bootable. Once you have the disk formatted it seems to work just
fine as a DOS diskette like any other, at least in my disk imaging system.
You can walk around and tell people you have a 8" boot drive on your PC, but
it's not as exciting to others as you might think.....ug. Anyway I made a
thread on my site about my adventures with imaging disks et al
http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=561
Exactly. Except for the 77 vs. 80 cylinder issue, there should be no
problem using an 8" in place of a 5.25" HD drive.
Even Apple IIs had 8" third-party 8" drives available.
--Chuck
11:16 a.m.
Chuck,
It seems to me that what I am trying to achieve is very straight forward
plain vanilla disk imaging. I.E. no fancy encoding or protection schemes, no
super exotic formats, etc. The real issue is how to most easily (and
economically) achieve it.
While I appreciate the compliment (it was a compliment right?) building an
Arduino board to make the 51TD work with an IBM controller is not something
that is even realistic for me without tons of guidance and training. My best
bet would be to get a drive that works directly (after building an adapter
for the cabling) with an IBM controller. If that is a Shugart SA900 or
QumeTrack 242 or whatever might get me from point A to point B faster. I was
hoping the 51TD would work just as easily as I have 4 of them lying around
but that is my luck...
-Ali
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:34 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Using an 8" drive on a PC (WAS RE: "Smartcom II" package
Exactly. Except for the 77 vs. 80 cylinder issue, there should be no
problem using an 8" in place of a 5.25" HD drive.
Even Apple IIs had 8" third-party 8" drives available.
--Chuck
12:10 p.m.
On Sep 21, 2014, at 12:16 , Ali <cctalk at fahimi.net> wrote:
While I appreciate the compliment (it was a compliment
right?) building an
Arduino board to make the 51TD work with an IBM controller is not something
that is even realistic for me without tons of guidance and training. My best
bet would be to get a drive that works directly (after building an adapter
for the cabling) with an IBM controller. If that is a Shugart SA900 or
QumeTrack 242 or whatever might get me from point A to point B faster. I was
hoping the 51TD would work just as easily as I have 4 of them lying around
but that is my luck...
Yup, I can understand why inquiring about using the 51TD was your first impulse, since
that's what you happen to have sitting around. Something with a Shugart interface will
be easier to hook up to either a PC or to dedicated imaging hardware like a KryoFlux.
Whether you choose to use a PC or specialized hardware is a matter of personal preference
and convenience; I use a KryoFlux since my daily-driver computer is a Mac, while you might
find it easier to use a PC if you already have a suitable PC system. If you don't
already have one, an FDADAP board from D-Bit will come in handy. D-Bit also sells a power
supply adapter that may come in handy; I didn't buy one of those since the drive I set
up for 8" imaging came in a powered enclosure.
Regarding which floppy drive to pick out, I don't think that will be terribly
critical. I'd say, pick out the first suitable drive that comes along at a price
you're willing to pay (that's the clincher, since 8" drives seem to get
listed at silly prices on eBay lately). I'd suggest a double-sided drive since your
System/23 boxes have double-sided drives. I use a Tandon TM-848E since that's what I
happened to buy off eBay.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
1:23 p.m.
Mark,
Thanks for the recommendation. I have tons of PCs sitting around so building
a dedicated imaging system out of one is not an issue. In regards to buying
the first 8" drive that comes my way, well I am not sure how well that will
work out given my experience with the 51TD. :) What I need to do is come up
with a list of drives that support DD, DS 8" disks and have a Shugart
interface and then bid my time finding a good price on one of them.
-Ali
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Mark J. Blair
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 1:10 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Using an 8" drive on a PC (WAS RE: "Smartcom II" package
On Sep 21, 2014, at 12:16 , Ali <cctalk at fahimi.net> wrote:
While I appreciate the compliment (it was a compliment
right?)
building an Arduino board to make the 51TD work with an IBM controller
is not something that is even realistic for me without tons of
guidance and training. My best bet would be to get a drive that works
directly (after building an adapter for the cabling) with an IBM
controller. If that is a Shugart SA900 or QumeTrack 242 or whatever
might get me from point A to point B faster. I was hoping the 51TD
would work just as easily as I have 4 of them lying around but that is my
luck...
Yup, I can understand why inquiring about using the 51TD was your first
impulse, since that's what you happen to have sitting around. Something with
a Shugart interface will be easier to hook up to either a PC or to dedicated
imaging hardware like a KryoFlux. Whether you choose to use a PC or
specialized hardware is a matter of personal preference and convenience; I
use a KryoFlux since my daily-driver computer is a Mac, while you might find
it easier to use a PC if you already have a suitable PC system. If you don't
already have one, an FDADAP board from D-Bit will come in handy. D-Bit also
sells a power supply adapter that may come in handy; I didn't buy one of
those since the drive I set up for 8" imaging came in a powered enclosure.
Regarding which floppy drive to pick out, I don't think that will be
terribly critical. I'd say, pick out the first suitable drive that comes
along at a price you're willing to pay (that's the clincher, since 8" drives
seem to get listed at silly prices on eBay lately). I'd suggest a
double-sided drive since your System/23 boxes have double-sided drives. I
use a Tandon TM-848E since that's what I happened to buy off eBay.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
12:55 p.m.
On 09/21/2014 12:16 PM, Ali wrote:
While I appreciate the compliment (it was a compliment
right?) building an
Arduino board to make the 51TD work with an IBM controller is not something
that is even realistic for me without tons of guidance and training. My best
bet would be to get a drive that works directly (after building an adapter
for the cabling) with an IBM controller. If that is a Shugart SA900 or
QumeTrack 242 or whatever might get me from point A to point B faster. I was
hoping the 51TD would work just as easily as I have 4 of them lying around
but that is my luck...
Okay, yes, the 51TD is a bit too dumb. Get a Shugart SA-800 interface
type drive then. Remember that they all require a 24 volt supply. The
choices are numerous. My drives of choice are Qume DT/8 and Siemens
FDD-200; other people like Shugart SA-801s and the like, but there were
many producers of 8" drives. Some of the Japanese-origin drives (e.g.
NEC) can be a little strange with very little information available, so
stick with something that has a manual available. Very often, there are
many jumpers and it's best to know what they're for.
Most are interfaced via a 50-line edge connector; there are a few that
use other schemes, such as early Calcomp drives (40 pin header) but
they're pretty rare now.
Also, make certain to get a double-sided drive--not all 8" drives are.
--Chuck
1:16 p.m.
Chuck,
Thanks for the info. Any reason you like the Qume DT/8 or the Siemens
FDD-200 (As opposed to the Shugarts)? I have been reading up on the Shugarts
and it seems the 800s came later then the 900s even though they were
produced concurrently. The 801s seem to be popular but although they support
SD and DD they are SS drives, is this correct? If so the 801s would not work
for my application and I would need to look at 850s.
-Ali
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 1:56 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Using an 8" drive on a PC (WAS RE: "Smartcom II" package
Okay, yes, the 51TD is a bit too dumb. Get a Shugart SA-800 interface type
drive then. Remember that they all require a 24 volt supply. The choices
are numerous. My drives of choice are Qume DT/8 and Siemens FDD-200; other
people like Shugart SA-801s and the like, but there were many producers of
8" drives. Some of the Japanese-origin drives (e.g.
NEC) can be a little strange with very little information available, so
stick with something that has a manual available. Very often, there are
many jumpers and it's best to know what they're for.
Most are interfaced via a 50-line edge connector; there are a few that use
other schemes, such as early Calcomp drives (40 pin header) but they're
pretty rare now.
Also, make certain to get a double-sided drive--not all 8" drives are.
--Chuck
11:29 a.m.
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Exactly. Except for the 77 vs. 80 cylinder issue,
there should be no
problem using an 8" in place of a 5.25" HD drive.
SOME BIOSes can be a right PITA, particularly as drive A:
(Silly attempts to determine drive type at boot?)
Even Apple IIs had 8" third-party 8" drives
available.
Sorrento Valley Associates is the main one that I remember.
Doctor Marty put some effort into reverse engineering the Flagstaff
Engineering modifications to the 5150 FDC board for 8". I may still have
a box somewhere of his efforts.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
11:24 a.m.
> A lot will depend on what you want to do.
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014, Bill Degnan wrote:
I was able to make a 8" DOS 6.22 boot disk, but
you have to play around with
the 77 vs 80 tracks issue when spoofing a 1.2M 5 1/4" drive. Or just ignore
the errors at the end of the format, as it will still work enough to get by.
I told the computer BIOS I had a 1.2M 5 1/4" drive in A, and used the DBIT
adapter to connect to the 8" drive. It may matter what side of the twisted
drive cable the adapter is placed, so you'll have to play around with it.
I am assuming your drive controller and computer are compatible with the
hardware.
Format complete, use SYS command from DOS to move boot files to the disk to
make it bootable. Once you have the disk formatted it seems to work just
fine as a DOS diskette like any other, at least in my disk imaging system.
In general, I prefer using drive B: instead of A: for such things, to keep
the "experimental" side separate from the "normal" DOS booting, etc.
Unless I am TRYING to make a boot disk, I'd rather boot from the
"ordinary" disk, and not have to worry about removing the disk before
rebooting, etc. On stable systems, once they are working reliably, then I
may switch special drives to the third and fourth floppy of the system.
I also used a TM848-2 most of the time, but some people have had
difficulties with them, so the SA850 is more popular.
And, I dislike the Qume 142 drive, for various bad personal experience
reasons.
You can walk around and tell people you have a 8"
boot drive on your PC, but
it's not as exciting to others as you might think.....ug.
You're just hanging out with the wrong "others". WE are excited to hear
about it, and impressed with any successes.
Anyway I made a
thread on my site about my adventures with imaging disks et al
http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=561
Nice!
Notice that it is traditional for disk imaging and conversion systems to
not have a lid on the case of the computer nor cases for the drives.
3576
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billdeg＠buzz1.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cctalk＠fahimi.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
nf6x＠nf6x.net