On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 10:20 AM Chris Long via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: OK, Boomer. - Josh

On Sat, Dec 4, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: How dare LEGO(tm) remind me that women exist? This is clearly communism. - Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA web at loomcom.com

I actually created an account to support this but I think it already has enough votes to get it made. I ended up giving private feedback. I like vintage computing legos and I have a few of Chris McVeigh's sets before he went to work for LEGO. I would like to see these sets get made. These sets were designed and proposed by an individual and unless someone takes the time to do one for people like Babbage, Mauchly, Eckert, or Englebart then you won't see it. Someone designed one for Alan Turing, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. If you want to see ones for people who you admire, you need to make it or ask for it.

On 12/4/21 12:37, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: There's really no call to be nasty about it. To those of us who are baby boomers, that usage is extremely offensive. Doc

The fact I don?t think it is necessary for a Lego set specifically endorsing the role of women in computing is unpleasant or mean spirited? Get a life Liam. I simply expressed my view. Are we really at a state on this list where when someone posts mentioning something, that anyone who expresses any alternative view is behaving unacceptably? Talk about snowflakes. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Liam Proven via cctalk Sent: 05 December 2021 15:17 To: Doc Shipley <doc at vaxen.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Women of Computing On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 16:09, Doc Shipley via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: I suspect that was the plan. Chris Long's email was nasty, unpleasant and a mean-spirited and unpleasant thing to say. The fact that they felt the need to say it on a public forum indicates either that they do not care what other people feel, or that they wanted to cause offence. When someone is so insensitive that they do not understand that their words can hurt others, then sometimes, an effective way to show to them that words can be hurtful and that they shouldn't say mean things, is to say something that is hurtful to them. This can illustrate to people who do not normally care about others' feelings that they do not like it when their own feelings are hurt. It is, sadly, a common attribute of a certain age group, especially of old white straight men, to give little regard to others' feelings like this. They typically consider a waste of time any kind of affirmative action that helps, boosts, or engages with people who are not old, white, straight and men. This is a bad way to behave. Nobody should act like that. It violates Wheaton's Law, which is a basic principle of how to be a civilised human being. "OK, Boomer" is just a succinct and clear way of saying "you are an unpleasant old man and we do not need to listen to your useless hurtful opinions." If that sounds like you, then my advice to you is not to complain about it, but to engage with it, and learn how not to be such a person, and then go and teach other such folk how to be better people. If it doesn't sound like you, then you should not be bothered by it. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

Did not see what Liam even said.? I tend to skip anything he posts. As what he says do not relate to what I am working on or are corrosive? Guess I will have to check out the archive!?Ed# Sent from the all new AOL app for Android On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 9:57 AM, Chris Long via cctalk<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: The fact I don?t think it is necessary for a Lego set specifically endorsing the role of women in computing is unpleasant or mean spirited? Get a life Liam. I simply expressed my view. Are we really at a state on this list where when someone posts mentioning something, that anyone who expresses any alternative view is behaving unacceptably? Talk about snowflakes. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Liam Proven via cctalk Sent: 05 December 2021 15:17 To: Doc Shipley <doc at vaxen.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Women of Computing On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 16:09, Doc Shipley via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: I suspect that was the plan. Chris Long's email was nasty, unpleasant and a mean-spirited and unpleasant thing to say. The fact that they felt the need to say it on a public forum indicates either that they do not care what other people feel, or that they wanted to cause offence. When someone is so insensitive that they do not understand that their words can hurt others, then sometimes, an effective way to show to them that words can be hurtful and that they shouldn't say mean things, is to say something that is hurtful to them. This can illustrate to people who do not normally care about others' feelings that they do not like it when their own feelings are hurt. It is, sadly, a common attribute of a certain age group, especially of old white straight men, to give little regard to others' feelings like this. They typically consider a waste of time any kind of affirmative action that helps, boosts, or engages with people who are not old, white, straight and men. This is a bad way to behave. Nobody should act like that. It violates Wheaton's Law, which is a basic principle of how to be a civilised human being. "OK, Boomer" is just a succinct and clear way of saying "you are an unpleasant old man and we do not need to listen to your useless hurtful opinions." If that sounds like you, then my advice to you is not to complain about it, but to engage with it, and learn how not to be such a person, and then go and teach other such folk how to be better people. If it doesn't sound like you, then you should not be bothered by it. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven at gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: For those unfamiliar, Weaton's Law: "Don't be a dick." More importantly, it's shorter to type. ;) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Using the term ?woke? these days is a great way to render any point you are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you seriously. He may as well have just come out and said, ?It triggers me and I don?t like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.? ? Brie

See, if it had been presented like that, it would likely have not elicited the same response. It?s sad, but I understand the reason why they are doing it. Lego has always been a bit progressive - even going as far as in commercials that girls can play with legos too. Unfortunately, the ones that throw the term ?woke? around like that tend to have pretty strong feelings about a ?woman?s place in society?. Sent from my iPhone

Lego puts poly pocket to shame. I agree with urwife and thank her for her work lobbying lego plz keep it up itsthe truly universal toy of everything On Sat., Dec. 4, 2021, 5:24 p.m. Alan Perry via cctalk, < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

Yea Lego is finicky with lugs Mostly for access to the lug bulk though no? On Sat., Dec. 4, 2021, 5:53 p.m. Alan Perry via cctalk, < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:

I accept that far less women than men work in computing. I believe however that this is large due to their own perception of the industry and their career choices. Almost all the women I know would describe working in it as "sad" or "geeky" and several of them are married men who do work in IT. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Toby Thain via cctalk Sent: 04 December 2021 22:24 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Women of Computing On 2021-12-04 2:55 p.m., Chris Long via cctalk wrote: False. Women still do not play 'an equal role' in STEM today, and did not in the 20th C either. Have you ever reflected on why not? It is a systemic issue that has been well studied and documented, and most relevantly, described by women.

On Sat, 4 Dec 2021, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: It's not "perception". It's the rampant sexual harassment, "dudebro" culture, etc. It takes a strong person to work in an industry that demonstratedly treats them like second class citizens. If you've got an issue with Lego promoting women in STEM fields, ya'll should probably go sit in the corner until you've come to grips with the fact that you've got a dramatic flaw in your perception of reality. Five bucks says all or most of them were denigrated or humiliated in some fashion after showing an early interest in those things. If I were you, I'd go back to shouting at clouds and chasing kids off your lawn. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Mike Begley via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: Especially in the context of historic computing. We aren't stopping anyone repair, sourdough starters, quidditch, or the evolution of the mantis shrimp here either. Warner

On Sat, Dec 04, 2021 at 06:20:33PM -0000, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: To annoy people who use dogwhistles.