3 Nov
2005
3 Nov
'05
11:22 a.m.
Hi Julian,
you have at least response from the console ... never mind :-)
When you press EXAM (or DEP) the M7859 must do a UNIBUS access.
Grant problems will turn on BUS ERR, so there lies you first
point of interest to check out.
You say "I get that BUS ERR no matter what I do".
Please tell exactly what "no matter ..." actions are.
I have no experience with core based 11/34's, so I can not tell
anything more about your board placement. The manual will tell!
However, (not sure), if you have some G7273's, replace the G727's
and put the G7273 in position C-D.
BTW, I am not sure of "All grant cards are installed where you
could read FLIP CHIP from the processor side". I am not near my
11/34. If "FLIP CHIP" is in the etch on the side where the 4
BR contacts are, then they might be installed wrong in the slot!
AFAIR, it should be like this (seen from above towards the
backplane, I can check that this evening):
slot X slot 2 slot 1 <[most right]
__ M8265 M8266
| | position | | | |
| | D | | | |
| | ........... | | | |
| | | | | |
----> | | | | | |
|_| G727 | | | |
this side | | | |
has the | | | |
contact | | | |
fingers
- Henk, PA8PDP.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Julian Wolfe
Sent: donderdag 3 november 2005 10:44
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: 11/34a issues
Okay, so I FINALLY worked out my BA11-K power supply issues
and got everything sorted out and installed again.
However, I'm back to where I started when I got this thing
(which I never got past) - I turn it on, the display comes up
at 173536. However, whenever I try to EXAM anything, it
displays 000000 and the BUS ERR light comes on.
I can clear, but I get that BUS ERR no matter what I do. I
haven't got a serial console connected to it yet - I got this
info by going through the
11/34 diagnostics in the manual.
Here's my setup:
BA11-K box
DD11-PK backplane
UNIBUS layout:
A B C D E F
M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 1
M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 2
M9301 M9301 M7800 M7800 M7800 M7800 3
H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A 4
blank blank blank GRANT blank blank 5
H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A 6
blank blank blank GRANT blank blank 7
M7850 M7850 M7859 M7859 M7859 M7859 8
M9302 blank blank GRANT blank blank 9
I've tried switching some boards around, no help.
All grant cards are installed where you could read FLIP CHIP
from the processor side.
I have NO idea what's wrong. Is the memory possibly bad?
That's the only thing I could think of.
Any help, as always, would be much appreciated.
TIA
Julian
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under applicable law.
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distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by
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Thank you for your cooperation.
8 Nov
8 Nov
10:18 p.m.
Is there any good way to test the unit piece by piece?
Also, I noted in the manual, it says BUS ERR only denotes a bus error on the
console, not on the processor, whatever that means.
I have now confirmed that my grant cards are in correctly (facing the
correct direction).
When is it exactly that I need a grant card? Do I need them whenever
position D isn't occupied? Or is there a stipulation to that?
I'm thoroughly confused.
Mind you, I have not yet connected a console to it. Maybe I'll do that
tonight.
Henk (or anyone else) if you can offer further assistance with this, I'd
really appreciate it.
TIA
Julian
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Gooijen, Henk
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:22 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: 11/34a issues
Hi Julian,
you have at least response from the console ... never mind :-)
When you press EXAM (or DEP) the M7859 must do a UNIBUS access.
Grant problems will turn on BUS ERR, so there lies you first
point of interest to check out.
You say "I get that BUS ERR no matter what I do".
Please tell exactly what "no matter ..." actions are.
I have no experience with core based 11/34's, so I can not tell
anything more about your board placement. The manual will tell!
However, (not sure), if you have some G7273's, replace the G727's
and put the G7273 in position C-D.
BTW, I am not sure of "All grant cards are installed where you
could read FLIP CHIP from the processor side". I am not near my
11/34. If "FLIP CHIP" is in the etch on the side where the 4
BR contacts are, then they might be installed wrong in the slot!
AFAIR, it should be like this (seen from above towards the
backplane, I can check that this evening):
slot X slot 2 slot 1 <[most right]
__ M8265 M8266
| | position | | | |
| | D | | | |
| | ........... | | | |
| | | | | |
----> | | | | | |
|_| G727 | | | |
this side | | | |
has the | | | |
contact | | | |
fingers
- Henk, PA8PDP.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Julian Wolfe
Sent: donderdag 3 november 2005 10:44
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: 11/34a issues
Okay, so I FINALLY worked out my BA11-K power supply issues
and got everything sorted out and installed again.
However, I'm back to where I started when I got this thing
(which I never got past) - I turn it on, the display comes up
at 173536. However, whenever I try to EXAM anything, it
displays 000000 and the BUS ERR light comes on.
I can clear, but I get that BUS ERR no matter what I do. I
haven't got a serial console connected to it yet - I got this
info by going through the
11/34 diagnostics in the manual.
Here's my setup:
BA11-K box
DD11-PK backplane
UNIBUS layout:
A B C D E F
M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 1
M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 2
M9301 M9301 M7800 M7800 M7800 M7800 3
H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A 4
blank blank blank GRANT blank blank 5
H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A 6
blank blank blank GRANT blank blank 7
M7850 M7850 M7859 M7859 M7859 M7859 8
M9302 blank blank GRANT blank blank 9
I've tried switching some boards around, no help.
All grant cards are installed where you could read FLIP CHIP
from the processor side.
I have NO idea what's wrong. Is the memory possibly bad?
That's the only thing I could think of.
Any help, as always, would be much appreciated.
TIA
Julian
This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the
addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or
otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for
delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message.
Thank you for your cooperation.
11:33 p.m.
On 11/8/05, Julian Wolfe <fireflyst at earthlink.net> wrote:
When is it exactly that I need a grant card? Do I
need them whenever
position D isn't occupied? Or is there a stipulation to that?
In order for devices to be able to have their interrupt request seen
by the CPU, the "grant chain" must be preserved. Unlike an Amiga or
PC or other architecture that has IRQ-like lines that a card pulls
true to request an interrupt, on the Unibus and Qbus, each peripheral
is responsible for keeping each BR signal connected (there are several
grant chains on each bus, not just one) so that each card behind it
can be "seen" by the CPU. To request attention from the CPU, a
particular card breaks that connection. If, prior to the interrupt
being serviced, another card closer to the CPU also breaks the
connection, then the closer card will be serviced first. Any card to
the rear will not be seen until it is the front-most card with the
interrupt chain broken.
The consequence of this technique is that if there is no card in the
slot, then a passive device, a "grant card" must be installed, to
preserve the chain past the "empty" slot to any cards that are
installed further away from the CPU. You can easily see what the
grant card does by inspecting one - it bridges two adjacent pins in
the same slot, and _that_ is what keeps the chain intact.
On the Unibus (not Qbus), to make things a little more complicated, in
a different part of the backplane is the DMA request pin - NPR
(Non-Processor Request). Because originally, it was expected that a
DMA device would be an entire backplane, the NPR signal is chained
across a DD11DK backplane with wire-wrap wires, requiring a
single-slot DMA device, an RL11, say, to have the NPR jumper removed
from the bottom before it will be able to request the
bus. When
removing such a peripheral, one must either replace the NPR wire
manually on the pin-side of the backplane, _or_ use a more modern
dual-height grant card that grants _both_ the interrupt chains _and_
NPR.
If you really have an empty 11/34 backplane, save for CPU and mem, I'd
check your NPR wires, too. If they are missing, you will need a
larger grant card, not the tiny, square, single-height G727 cards. I'd
tell you exactly what pin to check, but I don't have that info right
here... visually inspect a dual-height grant card and see where the
one lone jumper is on the other slot - that will tell you where the
NPR wire goes. If you don't have any dual-height grant cards, I'd
recommend tracking down one or two - they are as useful while
debugging as an extender card - you can pull a DMA peripheral and not
have to fiddle with the backplane.
Since I used to work for a place that _made_ dual-height grant cards,
we *always* loaded our Unibus backplanes with them - we never had to
worry if slots 4 and 6 had the NPR wire out - we just jumpered all 9
slots. Naturally, if you lack a pile of dual-height grant cards, that
won't work for you, but it was an easy thing back in the day.
-ethan
6997
days inactive
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days old
2 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
fireflyst＠earthlink.net -
henk.gooijen＠oce.com