20 Nov
2012
20 Nov
'12
1:11 p.m.
I've recently restored a DEC TU58 dual-transport tape system but am
finding that 30+ year old DC100A cartridges are perhaps past the end of
their useful life.
The belts in many of them have rotted and broken.
There are still some places you can get new cartridges, but they are
more than $40 a piece.
Has anyone found a way to source and replace the broken belts?
I am not interested in preserving the data on the tapes as much as I
am interested in just having working tapes... so I don't get ahead by
moving a belt from a "good" cartridge to a bad one. I'm interested in
trying to repair the bad cartridges.
I've seen the writeup here, for the HP 9845 and its DC100As,
http://www.hp9845.net/9845/tutorials/savetapes/index.html
but that doesn't tell us what to do about broken belts other than to
steal them from other cartridges...
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
20 Nov
20 Nov
4:14 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
Namens Chris Elmquist
Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2012 19:11
Aan: Classic Computer Talk
Onderwerp: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?
I've recently restored a DEC TU58 dual-transport tape system but am
finding
that 30+ year old DC100A cartridges are perhaps past
the end of their
useful life.
The belts in many of them have rotted and broken.
There are still some places you can get new cartridges, but they are more
than
$40 a piece.
Has anyone found a way to source and replace the broken belts?
I am not interested in preserving the data on the tapes as much as I am
interested in just having working tapes... so I don't get ahead by moving
a
belt
from a "good" cartridge to a bad one.
I'm interested in trying to repair
the bad
cartridges.
I've seen the writeup here, for the HP 9845 and its DC100As,
http://www.hp9845.net/9845/tutorials/savetapes/index.html
but that doesn't tell us what to do about broken belts other than to steal
them
from other cartridges...
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
I used the belts from QIC40 tapes, the 3M types worked ok for me.
You need to look that the belt are small enough they're two types of QIC40
belts on small the other a little wider, you need the small ones.
-Rik
4:47 p.m.
hardware emulator...
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Rik Bos <hp-fix at xs4all.nl> wrote:
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
]
Namens Chris Elmquist
Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2012 19:11
Aan: Classic Computer Talk
Onderwerp: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?
I've recently restored a DEC TU58 dual-transport tape system but am
finding
that 30+ year old DC100A cartridges are perhaps
past the end of their
useful life.
The belts in many of them have rotted and broken.
There are still some places you can get new cartridges, but they are more
than
$40 a piece.
Has anyone found a way to source and replace the broken belts?
I am not interested in preserving the data on the tapes as much as I am
interested in just having working tapes... so I don't get ahead by
moving
a belt
from a "good" cartridge to a bad one.
I'm interested in trying to repair
the bad
cartridges.
I've seen the writeup here, for the HP 9845 and its DC100As,
http://www.hp9845.net/9845/tutorials/savetapes/index.html
but that doesn't tell us what to do about broken belts other than to
steal
them
from other cartridges...
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
I used the belts from QIC40 tapes, the 3M types worked ok for me.
You need to look that the belt are small enough they're two types of QIC40
belts on small the other a little wider, you need the small ones.
-Rik
5:01 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
Namens Adrian Stoness
Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2012 22:47
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?
hardware emulator...
Which is a solution, but doesn't restores the information on the tapes...
And isn't at much fun as the real thing.
-Rik
21 Nov
21 Nov
1:10 a.m.
true but takes up less space
speaking of witch i need to get around to hooking mine up just need to
figure out a power source
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Rik Bos <hp-fix at xs4all.nl> wrote:
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
]
Namens Adrian Stoness
Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2012 22:47
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?
hardware emulator...
Which is a solution, but doesn't restores the information on the tapes...
And isn't at much fun as the real thing.
-Rik
3:23 a.m.
On 11/20/2012 10:10 PM, Adrian Stoness wrote:
true but takes up less space
speaking of witch i need to get around to hooking mine up just need to
figure out a power source
You might try using a Plastiband from Baumgartens as a replacement.
They come in 3 sizes--approximately 2", 4" and 6". I've never used
one
on a DC100A, but have used them on DC600 and DC2000 carts with some
success. They're made of polyurethane, just like the original tension
bands, but lack the lubricant. I find that a bit of dry silicone lube
helps out in that respect.
The technical support guy at Imation told me that the original tension
bands were stamped as rings from a sheet, then twisted and applied with
a special machine. He tried to find the manual version of the machine
used in the 3M QA lab, but came up empty.
--Chuck
8:54 a.m.
On Wednesday (11/21/2012 at 12:23AM -0800), Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 11/20/2012 10:10 PM, Adrian Stoness wrote:
OK. I'll look into that. Thanks.
It seems like the actual tape media is still good (at least visually seems
OK; not flaking or wrinkled or anything ugly) so seems worth a shot to
try to replace the band (at some nominal cost) and see what life is left.
I appreciate Rik's input on the QIC40 belts too. That is also worth a
shot as I do know where I can get a supply of those to sacrifice.
true but takes up less space
speaking of witch i need to get around to hooking mine up just need to
figure out a power source
You might try using a Plastiband from Baumgartens as a replacement.
They come in 3 sizes--approximately 2", 4" and 6". I've never used
one on a DC100A, but have used them on DC600 and DC2000 carts with
some success. They're made of polyurethane, just like the original
tension bands, but lack the lubricant. I find that a bit of dry
silicone lube helps out in that respect. The technical support guy at Imation told me that the
original
tension bands were stamped as rings from a sheet, then twisted and
applied with a special machine. He tried to find the manual version
of the machine used in the 3M QA lab, but came up empty.
Very interesting. I should just go over there and poke around in their
dumpsters. Imation (and 3M) are within 5 miles of where I live :-)
Not much left of anything data recording related there anymore though.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
6:53 a.m.
On Tuesday (11/20/2012 at 11:01PM +0100), Rik Bos wrote:
Yes. Exactly. The whole point is the restoration of the real, original
thing.
--
Chris Elmquist
hardware emulator...
Which is a solution, but doesn't restores the information on the tapes...
And isn't at much fun as the real thing. 
4:09 p.m.
New subject: TU58 tape formatter (was Re: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?)
Chris Elmquist wrote:
I've recently restored a DEC TU58 dual-transport
tape system but am
finding that 30+ year old DC100A cartridges are perhaps past the end of
their useful life.
[...]
I am not interested in preserving the data on the
tapes as much as I
am interested in just having working tapes...
To have working tapes, you MUST preserve at least some of the "data" on
the tapes. The TU58 is not capable of formatting a blank or non-TU58 tape.
There apparently was some non-standard TU58 firmware that could format
tapes, but no one seems to actually have it.
The hardware is simple enough that I've considered writing formatter
firmware myself, but that's one of a zillion projects that I haven't
gotten around to.
4:35 p.m.
New subject: TU58 tape formatter (was Re: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?)
On Wednesday (11/21/2012 at 02:09PM -0700), Eric Smith wrote:
Chris Elmquist wrote:
ooh. That is a really good point that I had overlooked. Particularly,
when thinking about buying a couple $50 non-DEC tapes! Thank you.
I've recently restored a DEC TU58
dual-transport tape system but am
finding that 30+ year old DC100A cartridges are perhaps past the end of
their useful life.
[...]
I am not interested in preserving the data on the
tapes as much as I
am interested in just having working tapes...
To have working tapes, you MUST preserve at least some of the "data"
on the tapes. The TU58 is not capable of formatting a blank or
non-TU58 tape. There apparently was some non-standard TU58 firmware
that could
format tapes, but no one seems to actually have it.
The hardware is simple enough that I've considered writing formatter
firmware myself, but that's one of a zillion projects that I haven't
gotten around to.
Now that I have known working transports, I could go down this path too--
but then I'm back to needing some working blank tapes again :-)
I have (4) unopened tapes and a few "beaters" that seem to still work
so this may be all I can work with going forward-- unless a replacement
belt scheme pans out.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
4:42 p.m.
New subject: TU58 tape formatter (was Re: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?)
I have (4) unopened tapes and a few
"beaters" that seem to still work
so this may be all I can work with going forward-- unless a replacement
belt scheme pans out.
Chris, what is the problem with recovering a DC100A for service? If I'm
not mistaken I have some tens of these tapes stored...Is it expensive where
you live? Shipping from Brazil would be expensive for a free pack of 10 or
20 tapes?
22 Nov
22 Nov
10:11 a.m.
New subject: TU58 tape formatter (was Re: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?)
On Wednesday (11/21/2012 at 07:42PM -0200), Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote:
Alexandre,
Thank you for the reply and the offer-- Here in the US, these tapes
are now very rare. There are a few sellers that have old stock and are
selling them for US $40 or more each. And, unfortunately, they are not
DEC formatted-- they are just raw DC100A-- so will not work directly in
the TU58 drive.
If you have DEC formatted DC100A for the TU58, I would be interested in
making a deal with you. I don't much much experience shipping to/from
Brazil but I don't think the issue will be weight-- only customs/tariffs,
etc.
So, let me know if you have DC100A that are intended for the TU58 and we'll
see if we can make a plan.
Thank you again!
Chris
St. Paul, MN USA
--
Chris Elmquist
I have (4) unopened tapes and a few
"beaters" that seem to still work
so this may be all I can work with going forward-- unless a replacement
belt scheme pans out.
Chris, what is the problem with recovering a DC100A for service?
If I'm not mistaken I have some tens of these tapes stored...Is it
expensive where you live? Shipping from Brazil would be expensive
for a free pack of 10 or 20 tapes?
10:31 a.m.
New subject: TU58 tape formatter (was Re: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?)
No, mine are the "plain" type and not TU-58 formatted...Sorry for being
of no help :(
---
Enviado do meu Motorola PT550
Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Elmquist" <chrise at pobox.com>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: TU58 tape formatter (was Re: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?)
On Wednesday (11/21/2012 at 07:42PM -0200), Alexandre
Souza - Listas
wrote:
Alexandre,
Thank you for the reply and the offer-- Here in the US, these tapes
are now very rare. There are a few sellers that have old stock and are
selling them for US $40 or more each. And, unfortunately, they are not
DEC formatted-- they are just raw DC100A-- so will not work directly in
the TU58 drive.
If you have DEC formatted DC100A for the TU58, I would be interested in
making a deal with you. I don't much much experience shipping to/from
Brazil but I don't think the issue will be weight-- only customs/tariffs,
etc.
So, let me know if you have DC100A that are intended for the TU58 and
we'll
see if we can make a plan.
Thank you again!
Chris
St. Paul, MN USA
--
Chris Elmquist
I have (4) unopened tapes and a few
"beaters" that seem to still work
so this may be all I can work with going forward-- unless a replacement
belt scheme pans out.
Chris, what is the problem with recovering a DC100A for service?
If I'm not mistaken I have some tens of these tapes stored...Is it
expensive where you live? Shipping from Brazil would be expensive
for a free pack of 10 or 20 tapes? 
21 Nov
21 Nov
11:01 p.m.
I have 15 DC100A's in excellent condition. Depending on where you are
located
You could have them for the cost of postage cheaply..
Dan Snyder
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Elmquist" <chrise at pobox.com>
To: "Classic Computer Talk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:11 PM
Subject: rebuilding DC100A cartridges?
I've recently restored a DEC TU58 dual-transport
tape system but am
finding that 30+ year old DC100A cartridges are perhaps past the end of
their useful life.
The belts in many of them have rotted and broken.
There are still some places you can get new cartridges, but they are
more than $40 a piece.
Has anyone found a way to source and replace the broken belts?
I am not interested in preserving the data on the tapes as much as I
am interested in just having working tapes... so I don't get ahead by
moving a belt from a "good" cartridge to a bad one. I'm interested in
trying to repair the bad cartridges.
I've seen the writeup here, for the HP 9845 and its DC100As,
http://www.hp9845.net/9845/tutorials/savetapes/index.html
but that doesn't tell us what to do about broken belts other than to
steal them from other cartridges...
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
4260
days inactive
4262
days old
13 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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cclist＠sydex.com -
chrise＠pobox.com -
ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl -
pu1bzz.listas＠gmail.com -
tdk.knight＠gmail.com