12 Feb
1998
12 Feb
'98
4:52 a.m.
John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote:
If I then came across a higher version for that
product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it
takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay
the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original
set of install disks, that I rightfully own.
You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will surely
tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of transfer,
they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been upgraded,
they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department.
I look at it this way: If someone throws away the
disks, they are giving up
their license to use the product.
Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for the sake
of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact the
way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-)
I'm sure any cold blooded lawyer worth his salt
could tear down my logic
and send me to the big house for having those disks and running them, but
how many would take the time, effort and money to try?
That doesn't sit right with me. I don't think I should be able to
reproduce someone else's software just because they can't catch me.
If you have that lawyer's phone number, ask about if there are
any conditions under which copyright can expire apart from the
mandated number of years of protection.
To help keep this on-topic, I have tried to persuade the UCSD licensing
department to allow me to reproduce the Terak version of the P-System.
They did once grant a right to a TI-99 user group to reproduce a
P-System cartridge. I didn't have much luck because they didn't
want to offend the current sole non-exclusive license holder, who
is trying to sell the P-System as an alternative to Java in set-top
boxes. Good luck, guys. :-)
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
12 Feb
12 Feb
6:44 a.m.
;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw John Foust typed:
You're both right, in a way.
John H.: Chuck the disks, give up license. Yup.
John F.: The upgrade disks require a license to previous software -- you
now essentially have two linked licenses - you cannot legally give up 1/2
of that license, so: "Don't throw the original media away." - to do so
could be asking for trouble.
So here's a question: Let's say you find dox & stuff for Lotus V.2 in the
dumpster, but with only the original disk 1 of the 3-disk set (IIRC). Do
you in fact have the license, or not. Is the license bound to *all* of the
media?
If this is the case, then that version of Autocad cannot be split. To xfer
the license, you need to xfer *all* the media involved - to throw away half
would be wrong, the way it seems to me.
Just my $0.00000000002 (that's what it's worth, anyway... ;-)
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed,
Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not*
zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.
John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote:
Yes, but to own a version upgrade versus an actual standalone product, you
*must* keep the original version. If you own V9, and upgrade to
V10/11/12/13/14 on that basis, you cannot toss your V9 media -- or you are
chucking the license that allows you to own just the upgrade and not the
real thing.
Methinks Autodesk's anti-piracy department would set up a conference call
between them, you and the folks who threw away the older media, because the
company doing the pitching is wrong as well, for without proof of the
original, they have essentially pirated the upgrade version.
If I then came across a higher version for that
product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it
takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay
the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original
set of install disks, that I rightfully own.
You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will surely
tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of transfer,
they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been upgraded,
they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department. I look at it
this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are giving up
their license to use the product.
Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for the sake
of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact the
way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-) 
6:13 a.m.
At 11:44 AM 2/12/98, you wrote:
So here's a question: Let's say you find dox
& stuff for Lotus V.2 in the
dumpster, but with only the original disk 1 of the 3-disk set (IIRC). Do
you in fact have the license, or not. Is the license bound to *all* of the
media?
I'd say you have the right to purchase a "previous version 1st disk
required" upgrade of the product. You have the disks and the manuals, and
the imaginary license laying right next to it, that the previous owner of
the software threw away along with his right to upgrade.
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
8:26 a.m.
At 11:44 AM 2/12/98, you wrote:
You're both right, in a way.
John H.: Chuck the disks, give up license. Yup.
John F.: The upgrade disks require a license to previous software -- you
now essentially have two linked licenses - you cannot legally give up 1/2
of that license, so: "Don't throw the original media away." - to do so
could be asking for trouble.
So here's a question: Let's say you find dox & stuff for Lotus V.2 in the
dumpster, but with only the original disk 1 of the 3-disk set (IIRC). Do
you in fact have the license, or not. Is the license bound to *all* of the
media?
When I did software audits, they had to have the complete set of disks.
Also if they had an upgrade they had to have the original disk for the
upgrade lincense ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^ "ownership" to be valid. (I don't like
the term license. A license is different from legal ownership of a software
package. Just like a driver's license is different from legal ownership of
a car.) If someone threw out their original disks and keep only the upgrade
disks, they were throwing out their ownership of that SW package. If
someone else found and keep the original set of disks, then he became the
owner of that SW. But only the version that was on the disks). In this
case, the original owner had no right to continue to use the software even
if he still had the upgrade disk!
And yes, we have talked to lawyers about this, at LOT of them! We have
also talked to ASP (not SPA!) about it.
Joe
;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw John Foust
typed:
>John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote:
>>If I then came across a higher version for that
>>product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it
>>takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay
>>the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original
>>set of install disks, that I rightfully own.
>
>You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will surely
>tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of
transfer,
they won't
sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been upgraded,
they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department.
Yes, but to own a version upgrade versus an actual standalone product, you
*must* keep the original version. If you own V9, and upgrade to
V10/11/12/13/14 on that basis, you cannot toss your V9 media -- or you are
chucking the license that allows you to own just the upgrade and not the
real thing.
Methinks Autodesk's anti-piracy department would set up a conference call
between them, you and the folks who threw away the older media, because the
company doing the pitching is wrong as well, for without proof of the
original, they have essentially pirated the upgrade version.
I look at
it this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are giving up
their license to use the product.
Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for the sake
of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact the
way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-)
If this is the case, then that version of Autocad cannot be split. To xfer
the license, you need to xfer *all* the media involved - to throw away half
would be wrong, the way it seems to me.
Just my $0.00000000002 (that's what it's worth, anyway... ;-)
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed,
Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not*
zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.
10:02 a.m.
Roger Merchberger wrote:
;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw John
Foust typed:
surely
the sake
AutoDesk requires you to trade the original disks from the previous
version at the dealer to order the upgrade.
John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net>
wrote:
>If I then came across a higher version for that
>product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version
(say it
>takes the older version disk to upgrade to
newer, then I'd expect to
pay
>the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the
program found on my
original
set of
install disks, that I rightfully own.
You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will tell you that you have someone else's copy,
and without a letter of
transfer,
they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the
copy had already been
upgraded,
they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy
department.
Yes, but to own a version upgrade versus an actual standalone product,
you
*must* keep the original version. If you own V9, and upgrade to
V10/11/12/13/14 on that basis, you cannot toss your V9 media -- or you
are
chucking the license that allows you to own just the upgrade and not
the
real thing.
Methinks Autodesk's anti-piracy department would set up a conference
call
between them, you and the folks who threw away the older media,
because the
company doing the pitching is wrong as well, for without proof of the
original, they have essentially pirated the upgrade version.
>I look at it this way: If someone throws away
the disks, they are
giving up
their
license to use the product.
Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for of argument that these disks came from a dumpster,
but that's in fact
the
way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-)
You're both right, in a way.
John H.: Chuck the disks, give up license. Yup.
John F.: The upgrade disks require a license to previous software --
you
now essentially have two linked licenses - you cannot legally give up
1/2
of that license, so: "Don't throw the original media away." - to do so
could be asking for trouble.
So here's a question: Let's say you find dox & stuff for Lotus V.2 in
the
dumpster, but with only the original disk 1 of the 3-disk set (IIRC).
Do
you in fact have the license, or not. Is the license bound to *all* of
the
media?
If this is the case, then that version of Autocad cannot be split. To
xfer
the license, you need to xfer *all* the media involved - to throw away
half
would be wrong, the way it seems to me.
Just my $0.00000000002 (that's what it's worth, anyway... ;-)
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed,
Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not*
zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.
9638
days inactive
9638
days old
4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
higginbo＠netpath.net -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jrice＠texoma.net -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
zmerch＠northernway.net