26 Mar
2002
26 Mar
'02
12:53 p.m.
In a message dated 3/26/02 5:47:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ernestls(a)attbi.com writes:
What size floppy disks does the HP 9114B drive use? Is
it 720k or 1.44 meg?
To quote the 1988 HP Catalog "the HP9114B provides up to 710 Kbytes of
formatted capacity in a lightweight, battery-operated package. The 3.5" disk
drive reads, writes and initializes double-sided media in both single-sided
and double-sided formats.
Paxton
Astoria,
Oregon
26 Mar
26 Mar
11:48 p.m.
At 09:53 PM 3/26/02 EST, Paxton wrote:
In a message dated 3/26/02 5:47:58 PM Pacific Standard
Time,
ernestls(a)attbi.com writes:
What size floppy disks does the HP 9114B drive use? Is it 720k or 1.44 meg?
To quote the 1988 HP Catalog "the HP9114B provides up to 710 Kbytes of
formatted capacity in a lightweight, battery-operated package. The 3.5"
disk drive reads, writes and initializes double-sided media in both
single-sided and double-sided formats.
SOME of HP 3.5" drives would support high density 1.44mb disk but the 9114 would
not. In fact, I haven't been able to get the 9114 to work at all with any 1.44Mb
disks. They might work if they were bulk erased first, I haven't tried that. But
standard 720k disks work fine in them. I've found the same to be true in the 9121 and
several other HP 3.5" drives. In fact, IIRC the 9122 C (emphasize C) is the only
drive that I'll found that will use the 1.44mb disks.
The capacity of the disk is dependent on the machine it's being used with and what
optional parameters that you give the Format (or Initialize) command. It's generally
about 710k but on the HP-41 it's only about 270k due to the small size of the 41
memory and limited disk DIR, FAT (actually LIF) and other disk info that the 41 can hold.
Joe
27 Mar
27 Mar
7:52 a.m.
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11:50 a.m.
At 09:52 PM 3/27/02 +0000, you wrote:
I've never looked the internals of the drive but that certainly makes sense since
the error message returned says that there is no media in the drive.
128K is a HUGE space for a HP 41! The 41 only has 2.2k of RAM!
Joe
SOME of HP
3.5" drives would support high density 1.44mb disk but the
9114 would not. In fact, I haven't been able to get the 9114 to work at
all with any 1.44Mb disks. They might work if they were bulk erased
first, I haven't tried that. But standar d 720k disks work fine in them.
I've found the same to be true in the 9121 and several other HP 3.5"
The 9114A, 9121, 9122 (not C, I guess), 9123, 9133, etc use a full-height
Sony disk mechanism. This one will not work with HD disks because the
disk-inserted sensor (a spring-loaded flag and a slotted optoswitch on
the motor PCB) lines up with the density select hole on the HD disk. The
result is that the drive thinks no disk is inserted.
I've not tried covering the hole in an HD disk so the sensor is
triggered. Some people have, and report it works 'sometimes'. But I stick
to real 720K disks...
Ditto! I tried covering the hole but it didn't work for me.
drives. In fact, IIRC the 9122 C (emphasize C) is
the only drive that I'll
found that will use the 1.44mb disks.
The capacity of the disk is dependent on the
machine it's being used
with and what optional parameters that you give the Format (or Initialize)
command. It's generally about 710k but on the HP-41 it's only about 270k
due to the small size of the 41 m emory and limited disk DIR, FAT
(actually LIF) and other disk info that the 41 can hold.
The HP41 is intersting. When the 82160 HPIL module ROM was written, the
_only_ mass storage device was the 82161 cassette drive with a capacity
of 128K. Moreover, the 82161 does not respond to the 'extra' DDL/DDT
commands that the 9114 responds to that cause the latter to report the
capacity. So the HP41 assumes that all mass storage devices are 128K (512
'blocks') long.
If you use a 9114 drive with an HP41, then it'll report 'MDM FULL' (or
whatever the medium full message is) when you try to put more than 128K
on the disk. _Unless_ you manage to artificially create a file that spans
the 128K boundary, when it seems to work properly. There's an HP program
for this, and a modified verison in PPC journal. It uses the Extended I/O
ROM to send DDL and DDT commands to the 9114 to create such a file. I've
not bothered -- 128K on a single disk is still plenty of space for an HP41...
28 Mar
28 Mar
5:40 a.m.
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10:28 a.m.
New subject: Questions for HP1000 collectors & emulation users...(long)
I have a few questions, a sort of informal survey for people with running HP 1000
hardware in their collections, or people playing with the SIMH (or other) emulation
of these machines.
If you have these machines, please send me a reply off-list. Please tag the subject
line so (any) replys can be found in my inbox.
Why the questionns?
As many HP collection know, HP1000 machines don't have the huge base of software
thats enjoyed by PDP-8 or PDP-11 machines. For people with a working CPU, their
options are limited to stand-alone software (HP BASIC) or getting working HP drives
and running some flavor of RTE.
As many HP collectors know, the HP 1000 machines do not enjoy the range of software
that is available for other machines like the PDP-8 or PDP-11. Today the HP 1000
collector is left with little choice other than stand-alone HP BASIC or attempting
to install and run some flavor of RTE on HP or aftermarket drives.
Another option will soon be available.
I'm currently working with a small group of people to develop a small, highly
portable, modular software package for HP1000 machines from the 2114/5/6 up through
the 21MX E and F series machines. This package will allow people to bootstrap their
HP processors with a minimum of peripherals. A PC-link and upload/download
application will also be provided as freeware.
(host interface is only for actual HP hardware, not emulation)
In order to support the range hardware collectors actually have, I'd like anyone
with a HP 1000 to drop me an off-list email with the following info:
1. What HP 1000 Processors or emulation system do you have running?
2. What method do you currently use to load programs into your processor, if any?
3. What software are you running?
4. What interface boards do you have installed?
5. What periperhals devices do you have, and do you have any documentation on their
hardware interface and programming?
6. Are you familiar with HP 1000 assembler?
7. Are you up for any (light) hardware work, or would you prefer a turn-key
approach?
8. Would you be interested in installing and using a small, extensible programming
environment and operating system on your HP hardware?
10:57 a.m.
At 07:40 PM 3/28/02 +0000, you wrote:
I am wondering how on earth you can cure the 'classic' dried up grease
fault on the loading mechanism and _not_ look at the internals of a
drive. You have had that fault I trust. If not, you're the only owner of
such drives who hasn't....
Actually I've never had that problem on a 9114, only on the double sided drives.
That must be due to the difference in climate. But to get to your point, I have taken
drives out and cleaned and regreased them but I never looked at the electronics that
closely. In fact, I take the easy way out when cleaning the drives, I hold the bare drive
up and pour alcohol over the mechanical section then go over it with cottom swabs to
remove the grease then rinse with alcohol and let dry. After it's dry I regrease the
pivots and wear points. Then I clean the heads and reinstall the drive. Removing and
reinstalling the drive takes longer than cleaning it does.
The 9114A, 9121, 9122 (not C, I guess), 9123, 9133, etc
use a full-height
Sony disk mechanism. This one will not work with HD disks because the
disk-inserted sensor (a spring-loaded flag and a slotted optoswitch on
the motor PCB) lines up with the density select hole on the HD disk. The
result is that the drive thinks no disk is inserted.
I've never looked the internals of the drive but that certainly
makes sense since the error message returned says that there is no media
in the drive.
But yes, you get a No Medium (or similar) message, for the obvious reasons...
Agreed. 128K will hold a lot of HP41 (or HP67-converted-to-HP41)
programs.
It's the same capacity as the 82161 tape drive, of course. Just that the
disk drive is faster, and more importantly the media is easier and
cheaper to obtain. The fact that you can read the 9114 disks in a PC with
the right software is an added bonus.
Agreed. Once you've used a 9114 you'll never willing touch a tape drive again
IMO!
Joe
ROM to
send DDL and DDT commands to the 9114 to create such a file. I've
not bothered -- 128K on a single disk is still plenty of space for an HP41...
128K is a HUGE space for a HP 41! The 41 only has 2.2k of RAM!
-tony
11:24 a.m.
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