Greetings to the List - My very sincere THANKS for the enlightening responses from Chuck Guzis, Brent Hilpert and Jay West on mounting the HP 7970 tape drive Beasts. I am out of town on business for a couple days and will inspect things when I return. Chuck is, of course, 100% correct on the Tipping Factor. I learned that very quickly - If you open the front of the Drive and swing out the door with the electronics, drive motors etc, it is definitely heavy enough to tip a rack. I bolted the destination 19" rack down to the concrete floor with 3/8" bolts. It will not, I hope, soon go anywhere. Jay makes a very valid point - these things are heavy at 130-pounds each and are real Beasts to deal with especially by yourself. I got both drives into the rack this past weekend and I am an old guy (67) - I carefully stared at the thing before I started and finally figured out that I could, in fact, lift the drive from a waist high cart for a few seconds, but definitely could not lift it or lower it vertically with my arms - no way - and I would have one shot at getting the drives into the rack on the rails. I used heavy and very wide aluminum angle stock for the rails and very carefully measured everything so that I got the rails installed correctly at the right height inside the rack so the screw holes on the front of the drives would mate to the rack and the drives would not overlap or gap and so as to be level. In addition, I slathered a bit of Orange Oil onto the rails to reduce friction when sliding in as there is a lot of friction - 130-pounds of steel on aluminum. Anyway, I finally figured out after staring at it for a few minutes that I should be able to step up carrying the Beast onto a step that I built out of scrap wood - I needed about eight inches in additional height after picking up the thing - so, I took a deep gulp and did that - picked up the drive Beast and stepped up on the step with my left foot - got my left knee under the front of the Beast to raise it a bit and was able to slide the rear of the Beast onto the rails - once I had support on the back of the drive, I was able to then lift the front and slide the thing in. The #2 drive Beast went into the lower part of the rack similarly except that I had the exact opposite problem - I could not possibly pick up the drive and lower it vertically with my arms to align it with the bottom bay - I finally figured out to use a wooden ammunition box (strong with dove tail joints) of the correct matching height on end - I was able to lower the Beast to sit on that in front of the rack - and then slide the thing in. That worked! Hooray! I actually got the things in without hurting myself - DOUBLE HOORAY! I celebrated with a shot of nice Cognac :) Jay is also 100% correct - these things are real bears to deal with - do NOT try it on your own - I was lucky! Anyway, I somehow managed to get everything aligned correctly to within 1/32" or so - the drives look great! :) Remaining tasks: Figure out how to get the mounting screws into the left sides of the drives (the right screws are in); mount a fan on the bottom rear of the rack - I think that should blow in through a filter for positive pressure - is that correct? - and make the rack at least almost air tight to keep the dust out. See http://frobenius.com/190203%20Tape%20Drive1.jpg http://frobenius.com/190203%20Tape%20Drive2.jpg http://frobenius.com/190203%20Tape%20Drive3.jpg for a couple of snapshots. I thought about a photo of me partially soused with my celebratory shot of Cognac, but decided otherwise :) Best, Jack (Hello from the Rockies - we have two-feet of snow forecast overnight :) t 11:25 PM 2/4/2019, you wrote: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper, President Secure Outcomes Inc 2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300 Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA 303.670.8375 303.670.3750 (fax) http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info.

On 05/02/2019 20:59, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Some years ago, Jay recommended a Genie Load Lifter to me (thank you!), and I was fortunate enough to get two of them as "new old stock" for about half price. They're relatively inexpensive and absolutely invaluable. Put a 200lb unit into the top of a full height rack? No problem. Shame I had to leave both behind when I left that employment (especially since they bought a third one but never used it)! -- Pete Pete Turnbull

At 01:59 PM 2/5/2019, you wrote: Thank You Chuck - You are correct - I would never try that again. I appreciate the offer on the retension levers on the HP 7970. Best, Jack in the Rocky Mountains (cold and snowy day here at a forecast -2F :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper, President Secure Outcomes Inc 2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300 Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA 303.670.8375 303.670.3750 (fax) http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info.

On 2/6/19 10:09 AM, Jay West wrote: The HP disk array rack is a pretty standard 19" EIA rack, with some extra slots for mounting the disk drive slides. Looking at the 7970, without the mounting kit, it's a standard 19" wide. The right side flange has holes for mounting; the left side (the side with the support hinges for the works) has a similar flange, but without holes. Since mounting holes on an 19" rack are 18" apart, I could see where just boring a couple of holes in the hinge-side flange and countersinking them for flathead bolts would work to secure the drive. On the DA cabinet, however, the side "skins" project about an inch forward of the mounting rails, so you'd probably have to remove one to get clearance to open the drive up for servicing. On the other hand, a "naked" rack would probably work just fine. My Fujitsu drive was new when I got it and so came with its own mounting slides. Still is a heavy bugger, though. --Chuck

On 2/6/19 11:25 AM, Jay West wrote: Okay, here's what I'm talking about. Take a look at PDF page 6 from this document: http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/hp/tape/7970/07970-90383_7… This shows very clearly the naked "box" without the transport works. Said box is aluminum, with 1/8" or so thick flanges on each side. Note that the right side has 3 mounting slots (and the transport has 3 "notches" to make room for bolt heads and washers. Now look at the right side of the drive box. Note that the hinges for the transport are secured to a similar flange, but without any mounting holes. I propose that drilling a couple of mounting holes to match rack spacing and countersinking said holes so that they don't interfere with the transport body would do the trick. My rack uses cage nuts on the rails, so there would be no fiddling with nuts and bolts. I'd probably also feel better if the rear of the drive were secured to the rack also, but I haven't worked that one out yet--nor am I likely too, as my current setup works just fine without the danger of hernia. --Chuck

On 2/6/19 2:29 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: Well, you know, my *other* right... :) Swing the drive assembly out from the back cover--you'll note that the pivot points on the two hinges are about 1" away from the cover flange. You've got plenty of room to drill your mounting holes from the *rear* of that flange. You might even have enough clearance for a countersink--but that may not be necessary--the frame casting only extends in from the left about a half-inch--you may even clear some oval-headed screws or get away with some truss-head screws. Alternatively, could mill a slight relief in the casting to clear the heads. I think it's doable without removing the drive from the cover. I tend to agree--the force is mostly downward on the front of the drive. I suppose that you could reinforce the aluminum housing with some steel bar backing up the mounting flanges, but that seems like overkill to me. --Chuck

On 2/6/19 6:33 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: Nah, there's plenty of room to get a screwdriver in there. I've had much tighter spots. --Chuck

On 2/6/19 10:42 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: Looking at it, it may be easier to do with a regular screwdriver if the drive is opened at 45 degrees rather than 90. Ratchet right-angle screwdrivers are also an option, as are ball-end allen wrenches or offset-head screwdrivers. None are particularly dear. In any case, as I've said, I'm not about to hoist my 7970 into a rack. I lost enough skin just getting it out of the truck into the shop. I may, however, go prowling for a lowboy EIA rack... --Chuck

On 2/7/19 2:01 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: In a pinch, I've used one of my made-in-China 1/4" ratchet wrench and a screwdriver bit. It's about as slim as they come. My set (from 1983 is real Chinese--"Laughing Swan" brand or some such. Looks something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Tools-DT1212-Ratcheting-5-Piece/dp/B002OHDXYM/ But I like the idea of just supporting the thing from the bottom. Can't get better than that from a mechanical standpoint. --Chuck

Brent wrote... There's no way you're angling a regular shafted screwdriver in there to adequately tighten screws. One could undo the catch that limits the angle of swing, but I still don't expect it's going to swing far enough to get the frame out of the way, let alone the PCBs and motors still in the way. ----- See? It's impossible to mount it without severe danger! In an effort to promote public safety, just send all your 7970E's to me and I will keep them somewhere that no one can get hurt on them! ;) J

On 2/7/19 9:16 AM, Jack Harper via cctalk wrote: That makes a lot of sense and doesn't look too difficult to fab up from stock. Or if you're not handy with metalworking, these would do the same job: https://www.hammfg.com/dci/products/accessories/raab That way, the right-side bolts serve to keep the thing in the rack. The Fujitsu drive that I use weighs more than the HP and doesn't even have "ears" to mount to the rack rails--it uses a sliding arrangement like many large disk drives. Fasten one part of the slides to the rack and the other to the drive and just slide the drive in--there are bolts to secure the slide position once the drive is in place. --Chuck

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019, Jack Harper via cctalk wrote: A few hundred pounds slid all the way out will topple it. If the center of gravity is NOT within the perimeter of the base, . . . Need to bolt the rear to the floor, or something SOLID, and extend the "footprint" of the front to include where the center of gravity is when fully extended. And a bit more, so that setting a tool or elbow on it doesn't topple it.

At 10:16 AM 2/11/2019, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: I agree 100% Fred... ...and once 300+ pounds of heavy ancient computer iron begins to topple, life becomes more exciting :) I bolted the 19" rack with the two HP7970 drives down to a 3/4" thick plywood base about 36" square or so and then anchored that to the concrete floor - before I installed the drives. See http://frobenius.com/190203%20Tape%20Drive5.jpg for yet another exciting photo :) Best to the List - Jack in the Rocky Mountains. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper, President Secure Outcomes Inc 2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300 Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA 303.670.8375 303.670.3750 (fax) http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info.

At 11:48 AM 2/11/2019, Tapley, Mark wrote: Well, amazing indeed Mark - I can see the headline now: "Local Computer Nerd Squished and Killed Instantly by Collapsing Rack of Ancient Electronics of Unknown Purpose. Body Mangled Horribly beyond Recognition. Nerd asked to be Buried with Ashes of Cat and Thumb Drive of what appears to be Software from the 1970's". I did not know that about concrete and wood. I will definitely keep an eye on the thing. The Good News is that it is extremely dry with very low humidity here at 8,000-feet (2,300 meters) elevation. Best to the List - Jack in the Rocky Mountains. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Harper, President Secure Outcomes Inc 2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300 Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA 303.670.8375 303.670.3750 (fax) http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info.

On 2/11/19 10:48 AM, Tapley, Mark via cctalk wrote: Yup, the first thing done to the concrete floor of my shop was to apply a sealer, then a layer of mastic and vinyl tile. (tile, not sheet goods, as it's simple to replace a damaged tile). It's held up well for almost 30 years, with no trace of moisture damage here in the soggy Pacific Northwest. The concrete walls were similarly isolated with a layer of 30 lb. roofing telt, with an insulated stud wall and sheetrock over it. --Chuck

I'm sure there is a post in the archives about this... There is a special custom HP bracket on the left. It is a heavy piece of steel - and it MUST be, due to the weight and movement (swing out) of the unit. I'm used to finding ways for one person to do a two man job when mounting things in racks, but just don't do it with the 7970 - you will get hurt. I had to get someone to help mainly because it's not just sliding in on some kind of rails. You have to literally hold the unit in place in mid air in the rack while getting to bolts and holes to align that you can't even get to from your side of the swingout. ISTR it's around 150# or so. Even with two people, there was a lot of huffing and straining - and that is with the special bracket that is designed to sort of hold it in place (it doesn't really) while you bolt it in. I've probably had around ten 7970's go through my shop, and only one of them ever came with that bracket. It is almost always lost. So... I had a friend of mine that owns a machine shop fabricate a new mounting bracket for the 7970. I think I had him make around 8 or so, and I sent them off to other collectors for the cost of having them made or shipping or smth. These brackets are 100% identical to the originals and made from steel that is at least as strong as the original, probably more. I think I may have an extra one of those brackets that was made, will check. J