27 Dec
2012
27 Dec
'12
10 a.m.
I wonder what the state of the art in Atari emulation is?
I'm an old Amiga person rather than Atari one so every so often I get
an urge to go buy an Amiga 4000. Instead I fire up my copy of E-UAE
running AmigaDOS 3.9 and the urge goes away. It runs some old games
better than my A500 ever did and I can run the AGA stuff my older
machines never could without massive modifications.
My eventual goal is to get an old netbook and dedicate it to just
running WinUAE.
Perhaps the OP might find an Atari emulator the same way?
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 20:09:30 +0100
From: Jonas Otter <jonas at otter.se>
On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:33:36 -0800, "Zane H. Healy"
<healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
William
--
Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
At 7:54 PM -0800 12/25/12, Tom Sparks wrote:
They are fairly common on auction sites here in Sweden, I got my
1040STFM a couple of years ago for about 50 Euro, with 2 joysticks, a
custom-built flight case and about 200 floppies with pirated games on.
If you are prepared to pay for shipping from Europe, you could have a
look on ebay.de (Germany) for example, or one of the other European
national ebay sites. I got mine from Tradera which is owned by ebay
(www.tradera.com), they turn up there every now and then, mostly 520s
and 1040s. Shipping would probably be quite expensive though.
Jonas >I am looking at buying an Atari ST, witch
model should I look into buying?
The TT030 is nice very nice and takes a VGA
monitor, but I rather
wish I'd gone for a Falcon. Of course I got my TT030 nearly 15 years
ago, it was hard to get then, I hate to think how hard it might be to
get any Atari ST now, or what any Atari computer might cost.
Zane 
28 Dec
28 Dec
1:28 a.m.
I'm an old Amiga person rather than Atari one so
every so often I get
an urge to go buy an Amiga 4000. Instead I fire up my copy of E-UAE
running AmigaDOS 3.9 and the urge goes away. It runs some old games
better than my A500 ever did and I can run the AGA stuff my older
machines never could without massive modifications.
Even the demos? I doubt you can play with a Video Toaster :o)
1:53 a.m.
Since we're discussing STs, does anyone have a spare ST mouse kicking
around? I'd like to re-wire one for use on my AT&T 6300.
--Chuck
2:28 a.m.
Amiga mice are equal or very similar (circuit-wise), AFAIK.
---
Enviado do meu Motorola PT550
Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: buying an Atari ST
Since we're discussing STs, does anyone have a
spare ST mouse kicking
around? I'd like to re-wire one for use on my AT&T 6300.
--Chuck
3:52 a.m.
On 28/12/2012 06:53, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Since we're discussing STs, does anyone have a
spare ST mouse kicking
around? I'd like to re-wire one for use on my AT&T 6300.
--Chuck
Getting a good one is getting hard(er). Folks often use an Eiffel board,
which allows both the Atari Keyboard and Mouse to be replaced, or a
simpler PIC based adaptor which allows a normal PC mouse to be plugged
into an Atari. If its just a matter of re-wiring then could you use one
of these adaptors to put a PC mouse on the 6300?
By the way, on the Atari ST thread there are several good emulators
about but its not the same as a real ST.
As for the ColdFire it has issues with much Atari software as some
instructions just aren't compatible. The big problem with Atari clones
(And all the machines that don't use an 8mhz 68000 chip, so TT & Falcon)
is that many games won't work on them and for many Games were the whole
reason for using an ST. In fact there are games that won't run on the
STe ...
Dave
10:18 a.m.
At 10:53 PM -0800 12/27/12, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Since we're discussing STs, does anyone have a
spare ST mouse
kicking around? I'd like to re-wire one for use on my AT&T 6300.
--Chuck
A long time ago (circa 1998) it was possible to buy a mouse that you
could use on either the Amiga or the Atari. You might look for 3rd
party Amiga and Atari mice.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
10:44 a.m.
Are you looking for a 9-pin or a 25-pin serial mouse? We have both.
Some are new, some used.
Cindy Croxton
Electronics Plus
1613 Water Street
Kerrville, TX 78028
(830)792-3400 phone (830)792-3404 fax
AOL IM elcpls
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 9:18 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; General Discussion:
Subject: Re: buying an Atari ST
At 10:53 PM -0800 12/27/12, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Since we're discussing STs, does anyone have a
spare ST mouse kicking
around? I'd like to re-wire one for use on my AT&T 6300.
--Chuck
A long time ago (circa 1998) it was possible to buy a mouse that you could
use on either the Amiga or the Atari. You might look for 3rd party Amiga
and Atari mice.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
-----
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1 p.m.
On 12/28/2012 07:44 AM, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus wrote:
Are you looking for a 9-pin or a 25-pin serial mouse?
We have both.
Some are new, some used.
Neither, Cindy. I've got plenty of PC serial mice. What I'm looking
for is a "brain dead" mouse with the button and encoder outputs
realized at the plug. PC mice (save for the old bus mice) all have
active components contained within the mice. Atari ST mice are
essentially "brain dead" which is what you want for the AT&T PC6300.
--Chuck
1:06 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:01 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: buying an Atari ST
On 12/28/2012 07:44 AM, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus wrote:
Are you looking for a 9-pin or a 25-pin serial mouse?
We have both.
Some are new, some used.
Neither, Cindy. I've got plenty of PC serial mice. What I'm looking
for is a "brain dead" mouse with the button and encoder outputs realized at
the plug. PC mice (save for the old bus mice) all have active components
contained within the mice. Atari ST mice are essentially "brain dead" which
is what you want for the AT&T PC6300.
--Chuck
Learn something new every day! We do have a few bus mice, but I am holding
onto them right now to test the bus cards we have here.
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5991 - Release Date: 12/27/12
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5991 - Release Date: 12/27/12
8:46 p.m.
On 12/28/12 10:00 AM, "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 12/28/2012 07:44 AM, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus
wrote:
Aren't they called 'quadrature' mice or something like that?
Are you looking for a 9-pin or a 25-pin serial
mouse? We have both.
Some are new, some used.
Neither, Cindy. I've got plenty of PC serial mice. What I'm looking
for is a "brain dead" mouse with the button and encoder outputs
realized at the plug. PC mice (save for the old bus mice) all have
active components contained within the mice. Atari ST mice are
essentially "brain dead" which is what you want for the AT&T PC6300.
--Chuck
9:10 p.m.
On 12/28/2012 05:46 PM, Geoffrey Reed wrote:
Aren't they called 'quadrature' mice or
something like that?
Exactly. each has two outputs, spaced slightly out of phase with each
other. By detecting edges, you can determine direction. Think "rotary
encoders" used in place of pots nowadays for simulated analog controls.
--Chuck
9:56 p.m.
Aren't
they called 'quadrature' mice or something like that?
Exactly. each has
two outputs, spaced slightly out of phase with
each other.
11:08 p.m.
On 12/28/2012 06:56 PM, Mouse wrote:
More than slightly. Most versions ideally place them 90 degrees out of
phase with one another. This has two advantages: (1) it maximizes the
minimum time between seeing one edge and seeing the next, and (2) if
you count all four edges per cycle instead of two or one, using 90
degrees of phase shift gets you more regular counting.
(1) is admittedly not very relevant if you're using a real mouse and
even vaguely modern electronics, since on even a high-res mouse edges
are very far apart on digital logic timescales.
Did you catch the ID in EDN about 6 months ago for a circuit using a
single 4538 on a rotary encoder that provides pulses on either of two
lines depending on direction? I thought it was very clever--much better
than the usual flip-flop decoder.
--Chuck
Aren't they called 'quadrature' mice or
something like that?
Exactly. each has two outputs, spaced slightly out of phase
with
each other. 
11:32 p.m.
On 12/28/2012 11:08 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Did you catch the ID in EDN about 6 months ago for a
circuit using a
single 4538 on a rotary encoder that provides pulses on either of two
lines depending on direction? I thought it was very clever--much better
than the usual flip-flop decoder.
Did you mean a "DI"? What issue was that in? That sounds like a
great hack.
The trick I always use, which assumes use with a microcontroller, is
to interrupt with one line and check the state of the other line in the
ISR. That works nicely. But pulses on one or the other of two lines
would make a really nice drive mechanism for tap-up/tap-down-interface
digipots.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
29 Dec
29 Dec
12:31 a.m.
On 12/28/2012 08:32 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Did you mean a "DI"? What issue was that
in? That sounds like a
great hack.
The trick I always use, which assumes use with a microcontroller, is
to interrupt with one line and check the state of the other line in the
ISR. That works nicely. But pulses on one or the other of two lines
would make a really nice drive mechanism for tap-up/tap-down-interface
digipots.
It was ED, not EDN (whoops), but here's the article:
http://tinyurl.com/ckznjw7
I love those things--like the one that allows you to drive a chain of
LEDs with only a single I/O on an MCU.
--Chuck
30 Dec
30 Dec
8:57 p.m.
On 12/29/2012 12:31 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Ahh! I like it!! Thanks!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Did you
mean a "DI"? What issue was that in? That sounds like a
great hack.
The trick I always use, which assumes use with a microcontroller, is
to interrupt with one line and check the state of the other line in the
ISR. That works nicely. But pulses on one or the other of two lines
would make a really nice drive mechanism for tap-up/tap-down-interface
digipots.
It was ED, not EDN (whoops), but here's the article:
http://tinyurl.com/ckznjw7
I love those things--like the one that allows you to drive a chain of
LEDs with only a single I/O on an MCU.
29 Dec
29 Dec
12:31 a.m.
> Most versions ideally place them 90 degrees out of
phase with one
> another. This has two advantages: [...]
> (1) is admittedly not very relevant if you're
using a real mouse and
> even vaguely modern electronics, since on even a high-res mouse
> edges are very far apart on digital logic timescales.
Did you catch the ID in EDN about 6 months ago
No. What's EDN? It doesn't look like an obvious acronym to me
offhand. But, in any case, it's unlikely to be anything I follow.
for a circuit using a single 4538 on a rotary encoder
that provides
pulses on either of two lines depending on direction?
Well, when I built my Tempest setup, I used two 74123s (or similar,
such as 74LS123 or some such - I don't recall). You can find a GIF of
the schematic for what I built in
ftp.rodents-montreal.org:/mouse/misc/quadrature-counter.gif. Chip
numbers are 74xx-series numbers, choice driven largely by what I
happened to have on hand at the time. The pin numbers at the bottom
edge are a DB25 interface to connect it to a dumb peecee parallel port.
I thought it was very clever--much better than the
usual flip-flop
decoder.
However, it does depend on the count edges not occurring too close
together (faster than the one-shots can generate pulses), which is
where my (1) is relevant.
I spent a while thinking about other alternatives and was unable to
come up with anything better that would count every edge (which was
important in my application, since the rotary shaft encoder I used had
128 cycles per rotation and I needed to use all 512 countable edges or
it wasn't as sensitive as I wanted).
It should be possible to instead use each signal as clock with the
other as enable, with various combinations of inverters, driving
edge-triggered counters. That avoids the one-shots, but requires four
different counters, which pushed it into impracticality for my purposes
("buildable with the chips at hand" was pretty close to a sine qua non
at the time, and I was lacking either '161s or '83s, I forget which).
Using dual-clock up/down counters instead would have fixed this, but
I'm pretty sure I didn't have (enough of) those on hand either. It
might be possible to use direction-and-clock up/down counters; I'd have
to think about it. I don't recall whether I didn't have them, decided
I couldn't do it, or just didn't think of it then.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
30 Dec
30 Dec
11:19 p.m.
On 27 December 2012 15:00, William Barnett-Lewis <wlewisiii at gmail.com> wrote:
I wonder what the state of the art in Atari emulation
is?
Very good, I believe. There are various emulators for gamers which can
emulate different early/original models with great fidelity so that
you can run demos and so on - this is the main focus.
There are also some emulators for those who wish to run desktop TOS apps.
Also, x86 PC GEM itself is now GPL open-source:
http://www.deltasoft.com/Default.htm
(The FreeGEM community is where I first "met" CCmper Gene Buckle.)
There have been efforts to bring across some of the Atari
improvements, but development largely stalled quite a few years ago.
On the Atari side, various people wrote replacements of various bits
of TOS - the VDI, the AES, the desktop and so on - and some of these
parts were FOSS.
Eventually, the result was a complete FOSS Atari OS, containing almost
no original Atari code but highly compatible. It's called AFROS and it
runs best on an emulator called ARANYM, which is designed for running
TOS and TOS apps on PCs, rather than games.
http://aranym.org/
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
11:27 p.m.
At 4:19 AM +0000 12/31/12, Liam Proven wrote:
On 27 December 2012 15:00, William Barnett-Lewis
<wlewisiii at gmail.com> wrote:
Now that is seriously interesting! I knew there was a reason I was
keeping up with this thread!
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
I wonder what the state of the art in Atari
emulation is?
Very good, I believe. There are various emulators for gamers which can
emulate different early/original models with great fidelity so that
you can run demos and so on - this is the main focus.
There are also some emulators for those who wish to run desktop TOS apps.
Also, x86 PC GEM itself is now GPL open-source:
http://www.deltasoft.com/Default.htm
(The FreeGEM community is where I first "met" CCmper Gene Buckle.)
There have been efforts to bring across some of the Atari
improvements, but development largely stalled quite a few years ago.
On the Atari side, various people wrote replacements of various bits
of TOS - the VDI, the AES, the desktop and so on - and some of these
parts were FOSS.
Eventually, the result was a complete FOSS Atari OS, containing almost
no original Atari code but highly compatible. It's called AFROS and it
runs best on an emulator called ARANYM, which is designed for running
TOS and TOS apps on PCs, rather than games.
http://aranym.org/
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18 comments
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participants (10)
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cclist＠sydex.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
geoffr＠zipcon.net -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
pu1bzz.listas＠gmail.com -
sales＠elecplus.com -
wlewisiii＠gmail.com