24 May
2005
24 May
'05
6:36 p.m.
its really driving up the price of stuff
unnecessarily.
--
This (dkdkk, ed sharpe, sassyscottie, et al.) has started to
really impact what I can get to scan. I have to carefully
consider if this is the only copy of a document I know of,
or if there are other sources that I might have access to
in the future.
It makes me feel really great to be giving this stuff away
too, after having paid through the nose for it (the latest
example being the IBM 1410 CE manual).
25 May
25 May
6:08 p.m.
> its really driving up the price of stuff
unnecessarily.
Al replied:
This (dkdkk, ed sharpe, sassyscottie, et al.) has
started to
scan. [...] It makes me fee really great to be giving this stuff
away too, after having paid through the nose for it.
Well, I can testify that I appreciate it being available for free.
I have to wonder: is the availability for so much old documentation for
free:
1. Driving down E-bay prices for documentation because so many similar
things are available for free?
2. Driving up E-bay prices for documentation because so many are
"hooked" into the hobby by the bitsavers archive?
3. Driving up E-bay prices for physical items because appropriate
documentation is available for free at bitsavers?
It's one thing to be a small player in the market, it's another to
try to figure out what your big moves do to the market!
Tim.
6:23 p.m.
shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com wrote:
I have to wonder: is the availability for so much old
documentation for free:
1. Driving down E-bay prices for documentation because so
many similar things are available for free?
In the late 1990s I used to pay maybe ?5-?10 for a handbook
or manual that I wanted. Prices there don't seem to have
moved much. When I sell excess tech books/manuals now they
seem to go for about that sort of price (except when there
is an inexplicable blip and something goes for ?20).
2. Driving up E-bay prices for documentation because
so many
are "hooked" into the hobby by the bitsavers archive?
I don't see that happening. _Some_ docs go for way more than
I want to pay right now. Then again, I don?t have a PDP-11/60
that I absolutely need the printset for right now, so maybe
my need is not great enough.
3. Driving up E-bay prices for physical items
because
appropriate documentation is available for free at
bitsavers?
You would think so, but this does not seem to happen (much).
I've even answered bidders' quiestions pointing them to
online copies of whatever they are bidding on and they still
continue to bid (sometimes). I imagine that if I were trying
to resurrect a PDP-11/60 I would prefer to have a paper
printset to stare at rather than flicking from page to page
on a computer screen. But I might change my mind if I had
to pay ?50+ for the privilege :-)
Antonio
--
---------------
Antonio Carlini arcarlini at iee.org
6:36 p.m.
From: <shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 5:08 PM
I'm sure Herb Johnson will pipe in and possibly agree with part of what I
say:
Many collectors want original manuals and will pay big $ for some, while
this doesn't apply to the guy selling a photo copy it still drives up prices
in general.
Many people want printouts that they can hold in their hands and don't have
a cheap way of getting decent printouts, inkjet printing is both expensive
and is not as durable as laser/photo copies.
Many people are unaware of the PDF's.
Many people still use dial-up accounts and would rather pay someone to snail
mail them docs.
Many PDF's are harder to read than photo-copies (I always try to proof mine
after scanning).
Many purchases are spur of the moment without even loopking for free copies.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
> its really
driving up the price of stuff unnecessarily.
Al replied:
This (dkdkk, ed sharpe, sassyscottie, et al.) has
started to
scan. [...] It makes me fee really great to be giving this stuff
away too, after having paid through the nose for it.
Well, I can testify that I appreciate it being available for free.
I have to wonder: is the availability for so much old documentation for
free:
1. Driving down E-bay prices for documentation because so many similar
things are available for free?
2. Driving up E-bay prices for documentation because so many are
"hooked" into the hobby by the bitsavers archive?
3. Driving up E-bay prices for physical items because appropriate
documentation is available for free at bitsavers?
It's one thing to be a small player in the market, it's another to
try to figure out what your big moves do to the market!
Tim. 
7:47 p.m.
I'm sure Herb Johnson will pipe in and possibly
agree with part of what I
say:
Many collectors want original manuals and will pay big $ for some, while
this doesn't apply to the guy selling a photo copy it still drives up prices
in general.
Many people want printouts that they can hold in their hands and don't have
a cheap way of getting decent printouts, inkjet printing is both expensive
and is not as durable as laser/photo copies.
Many people are unaware of the PDF's.
Many people still use dial-up accounts and would rather pay someone to snail
mail them docs.
Many PDF's are harder to read than photo-copies (I always try to proof mine
after scanning).
Many purchases are spur of the moment without even loopking for free copies.
I certainly prefer paper copies. The only ways I have of reading pdfs are
the local internet cafe or my parent's Mac. The latter has a printer, an
old Apple LW2NT, but it takes about 5 minutes to transfer a full page
bitmap to it over localtalk. Not exactly practical for a large printset!
YEs, I can view the pdfs on-screen. But firstly I can't do that at my
workbench or when stuck behind a PDP11 rack, or in bed, or... And
secondly it takes a lot longer to display a page on the mac (and on every
PC I've ever used, I am not talking about my slow PC here) than it takes
me to flip through a paper manual. Sure I can't read the manual that
fast, but I can tell if a page contains text, or a source listing, or a
binary dump, or a schematic, or what. If I am looking, say, for a
schematic, I can quickly skip over pages that contain other sorts of
information. This I can't do on-screen.
I am grateful for things like bitsavers. and I have asked a friend with a
CD burner and broadband to burn the odd manual to a CD for me (don't
worry, I haven't, and won't, ask him to grab everything, it's just
the odd manual for machinss that I am actually interested in). But I
certainly won't being giving up my collection of paper manuals,
schematics, etc any time soon either.
-tony
6999
days inactive
7000
days old
4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cctalk＠randy482.com -
shoppa_classiccmp＠trailing-edge.com