LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax 6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)
24 Nov
1999
24 Nov
'99
6:01 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard W. Schauer <rws(a)enteract.com
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Date: Thursday,
November 25, 1999 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: Made a deal to get a Vax 6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and
TOPS10???
I agree with you, Dave- it seems that recently there's been a surge of
"this or that computer is junk, it's only worth scrap for metals content.
I'll enjoy scrapping this one" As I recall, indiscriminate bashing of any
particular computer is prohibited by this list's FAQ and Rules (and I'd
definitely say that calling a whole class of machines junk would be
bashing).
When some of us go hunting in Dumpsters and scrapyards for measly old
micros, while working minis are being gleefully hauled to the shredder for
gold content, it kind of makes you wonder if it's all worth it.
Richard
First, I have never brought any kind of mini/micro to a gold reclaimer... If
I get a system I really don't want I either take the boards out and have the
rest crushed or ask one of my scrapper friends to cut it up. "I'll get what
gold I can out of it"... is an expression meaning I will try and get as many
Ebay dollars out of the boards as I can to offset the purchase and shipping
of the lot.
We should resolve this issue... What is a collectable computer?? I think
there are enough COCO-2s in collections to cover all of Toronto... should I
still hoard and buy every unit I see? I realize this is a touchy issue so I
will try to explain where I am coming from and I would appreciate opinions.
I have taken a leave of absence for 1 year to restore and cycle through as
many minis as I can for private collectors (kind of an *early retirement* if
I get the right ones). I have quite a "wish list" and a "want list"..
On
average I usually have access to at least 40-50 minis/year. I usually send
40+ to the chopper. I can't possibly store so many units (especially when
most collectors don't want them). I expect a few hundred over the next year
was:
On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Dave McGuire wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, John B wrote:
> >As for the systems, I will probably scrap the Vax6000 (for EBay
souvenirs).
>
> >I saw one of the Fujitsu boards last year.... nice... most of the chips
had
> >heat sinks on them (ram board).. and they were
huge.. Again too new and
too
big to deal with.. I'll get what gold I can out of
it.
Grrrrrr. from auctions, scrappers, factories, and trade-ins....
I have gotten
together with quite a few scrappers (through the ones I know) and
other
contacts to dig out as many possible sites that would have the kind of minis
I am looking for. For the most part I will get stuck dealing with a lot of
VAX 11/78Xs, IBMs, some Supercomputers (like the Fujitsu) and a lot of
PDP-11s. None of these computers are rare in any way and are quite abundant
among collectors. They are heavy, difficult to deal with and not profitable.
The documentation and software are everywhere for these computers and *more*
weight I have to deal with.
I can't possibly keep every Vax, Fujitsu, IBM, PDP and most people in this
group cannot deal with such large systems...
So what do I do????
One idea is to pull the boards out and hope to dump them on EBay... [I am
paying for this equipment]. That would help people fix their own minis if
they needed the boards...
There will be systems *worth* restoring (that's why I am doing this), IE:
alot of PDPs 8s, transistor PDPs, and maybe some 18 bits,, I expect an IBM
360 along with at least one 1401... and a lot of spares , docs, and
software.
The fujitsu is *HUGE*... I doubt anyone here would want to even try and run
it. Its worth more in parts than whole. It's not old (6 maybe 7 years).. so
what does one do?? The boards are nice, they look great.. Collectors are
looking for this kind of stuff to hang on their walls... can't possibly run
it.
and the Vax 6000. The last one didn't even fetch $300 on EBay. There are
thousands of Vaxes and I am sure millions of RA81/90s (whatever) out there.
No one wants the stuff [well, maybe the boards]
I agree with you on one thing.. I will refrain from calling certain
minis/micros *junk*.. but put yourself in my shoes.. If you had cabinets of
minis/mainframes coming in every month and *very* limited time/space what
would you do with them ? ... [and of course consider the fact that you
*paid* for them].
I will at least mention them here for parts before I have them shredded.
Basically, any mini I get that does not *like* paper tape will probably get
chopped up for parts.
P.S. I asked about 2 months ago if anyone wanted a free RH11 boards. I got
no responses - none. What should I do with them? Upset my wife more by
keeping them or toss them in the dump?
Suggestions?
25 Nov
25 Nov
8:21 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2557 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991125/2e1efbf0/at…
11:22 a.m.
On Thu, 25 Nov 1999, John B wrote:
The fujitsu is *HUGE*... I doubt anyone here would want
to even try and run
it. Its worth more in parts than whole. It's not old (6 maybe 7 years).. so
what does one do?? The boards are nice, they look great.. Collectors are
looking for this kind of stuff to hang on their walls... can't possibly run
it.
That's a big assumption. I know someone who would want it...and want to
*run* it...and has the heat/power/space capabilities to do so. I can't speak
for him of course, but I'll be he'd be interested right now.
But was anyone ever given the chance?
Supercomputers rarely have high resale value because of the specificity of
their applications. That translates to "worthless", or relatively so when
compared with their often-multimillion-dollar new cost. The important thing to
note, however, is that WORTHless != USEless. Somewhere, there will be someone
who would peel off their fingernails to get their hands on such a machine.
-Dave McGuire
12:06 p.m.
John,
Would it be correct to say that you define "collectible computer" as a
computer with "high resale value" ? If so then I think I understand the
problem here.
There are many people on this list who willingly buy machines that have
zero resale value just because they want to run them and use them. The
list's definition of collectible might be "Any computer that any person
might want to posses." and by that definition damn near everything is
"collectible."
You mention that you used to "scrap 8/Es and 8/Ms, but now you will keep
them." I presume you will "keep them" because some people on Ebay have paid
over $1000 each for them. Think about what it means that people on this
list have been collecting PDP-8s even when they were still being built.
That should tell you something.
You're plan to mention things you are thinking about scrapping on the list
first is a good one. Since they are "worthless" to you, and since you are
"scrapping" them, you should not have any objection to selling them to
someone on the list who will pay to have it transported for the same price
that the scrapper would give you, right? Logically this should be true,
since you profess that you don't care about these systems, and yet somehow
given your other postings I think that if someone actually expressed an
interest in something you were scrapping you might want to get much more
for it. I can't know so you will have to tell us what the "scrap value" of
the machine is.
You've also mentioned that MicroVaxes are "worthless" but I can tell you
that for the people running NetBSD and VMS on them they are a lot of fun.
The BA23/BA123's are more interesting to me personally but the later ones
are interesting to others.
From a sociology point of view, people on this list will regret it when
you say "I've got a VAX 8000 coming that I've got no room for, so unless
someone wants to come pick it up by X/X/XX I'll send it to the scrap yard."
People on the list will actually get angry when you say, "I just picked up
a load of stuff but quickly jettisoned a couple of VAX 8000s to the
scrappers, whoee what pigs." Everyone knows that all machines can't be
saved, but many of us would go to extraordinary lengths to save machines we
really wanted. For example I would fly to Canada and drive out a PDP-11/55
if I could find one. But I wouldn't leave the San Francisco bay area to
save an IBM 1401. I know another person who is completely the opposite, he
would jump immediately to save an old IBM box and leave the DEC machine to
the vultures.
So if you want to be popular (and I concede that there is no profit per se
in being so), give the list a heads up on the "40 - 50 minis" you go
through every year. It may be that only an additional 10 or 20 a year get
saved but that would be something.
--Chuck
9079
days inactive
9080
days old
3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
dylanb＠sympatico.ca -
mcguire＠neurotica.com