22 May
2009
22 May
'09
4:24 a.m.
On Thu May 21 11:52:08, Ethan Dicks wrote -
* In my experience, lots of people used to sit on
BA-123s, especially
people who were large enough that they should have known better.
While I do agree that they should not be used as seating,
they do make nice occasional tables, nightstands, and end tables. ;-)
T
22 May
22 May
4:32 a.m.
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:24 PM, <tiggerlasv at aim.com> wrote:
While I do agree that they should not be used as
seating,
they do make nice occasional tables, nightstands, and end tables. ? ;-)
That's what mine is doing now, aside from housing a MicroVax II that I
need to get around to testing one of these days. It's also got the
crumbling caster problem, and has left big black streaks on my wood
floors :(
4:47 a.m.
At 11:32 PM -0500 5/21/09, Jason T wrote:
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:24 PM, <tiggerlasv at
aim.com> wrote:
The one housing my PDP-11/73 spent time doing dual duty as a PDP-11
and Nightstand/endtable before I got married. Now it's just a
computer.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
While I do agree that they should not be used as
seating,
they do make nice occasional tables, nightstands, and end tables. ;-)
That's what mine is doing now, aside from housing a MicroVax II that I
need to get around to testing one of these days. It's also got the
crumbling caster problem, and has left big black streaks on my wood
floors :( 
7:41 a.m.
On Fri, 22 May 2009 00:24:26 -0400
tiggerlasv at aim.com wrote:
Please note 8. in the "Top 10 Signs that You are a VAX
Geek" below.
At this verry moment I am sitting at a desk build out of a Sun
3/260 and a BA440 DSSI disk box. My work bench in the machie room is supported by a
VAX4000-200 and a HP900-750.
Brian Chase, bdc at world.std.com
05 Oct 1997
__________________________________________________________________
Key traits identifying individuals tendencies towards abnormal
preoccupation with VAX computer systems
__________________________________________________________________
9. When talking about building software you make reference to
compilation times in weeks and days instead of minutes and seconds.
8. You stopped purchasing new furniture when you realized that
your computers work just as well.
7. Your electricity bill is more than your monthly rent payment.
6. You've been hospitalized with muscle strain injuries after
performing some routine hardware maintenance on your computer.
5. You don't have an SO, but it's okay because your computer keeps
you warm at night.
4. While doing laundry, you occassionaly have a mental lapse and try to
wash your socks and underwear in your 11/750.
3. Friends who visit you want to know why there are old-time movie reels
stuck on your refridgerator(s).
2. Your house is pleasantly warm in the dead of winter, even with the
air conditioning turned all the way up.
1. The lights in your home dim or flicker when you reboot.
0. It doesn't matter to you if someone else's computer is faster because
you know your system could smash theirs flat if it fell over on it.
And always remember, no matter what anyone else says. Bigger *IS*
better.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
* In my
experience, lots of people used to sit on BA-123s,
especially people who were large enough that they should have known
better.
While I do agree that they should not be used as seating,
they do make nice occasional tables, nightstands, and end
tables. ;-) 
8:05 a.m.
Jochen Kunz wrote:
On Fri, 22 May 2009 00:24:26 -0400
tiggerlasv at aim.com wrote:
Please note 8. in the "Top 10 Signs that You are a VAX Geek"
below.
At this verry moment I am sitting at a desk build out of a Sun
3/260 and a BA440 DSSI disk box. My work bench in the machie room is supported by a
VAX4000-200 and a HP900-750.
When my wife moved in to my house (newly wed) in 1993, I had a running
PDP 11/15 as the endtable in my living room. She didn't see the
fireplace till we moved out, had a set of racks in front of it.
Jim
* In my
experience, lots of people used to sit on BA-123s,
especially people who were large enough that they should have known
better.
While I do agree that they should not be used as seating,
they do make nice occasional tables, nightstands, and end
tables. ;-)
7:33 p.m.
New subject: Washing machine drives, was Re: BA123's as furniture. . .
Jochen Kunz wrote:
4. While doing laundry, you occassionaly have a mental lapse and try to
wash your socks and underwear in your 11/750.
I'd think this is more of a danger with the RM05 or RP06, if you happen
to have one located too close to your laundry area.
So has anybody come across any plausible stories about having to clean
washing detergent out of free-standing pack-based disk drives?
This as opposed to the comparatively common case of having a badge on an
actual dishwasher or refrigerator. I'm thinking of a pdp-11/23 badge on
a dishwasher at a group house in Alston, MA for starters...
--S.
8:14 p.m.
New subject: Washing machine drives, was Re: BA123's as furniture. . .
Steven M Jones wrote:
Jochen Kunz wrote:
No, but I thought I was going to have to pay for laundering my
neighbor's pants, the first time he heard an RA60 spin up.
He was appropriately awed at the size of the 11/84, the RA60, and the
drive packs, and interested as hell watching me load the pack and start
the machine.
When the RA60 started spooling up he started looking at it sort of
funny (they wind up like a jet turbine if you never heard one). When
the heads unlocked, he made the other end of the garage in one jump. :-)
Doc
4. While doing laundry, you occassionaly have a mental lapse and try to
wash your socks and underwear in your 11/750.
I'd think this is more of a danger with the RM05 or RP06, if you happen
to have one located too close to your laundry area.
So has anybody come across any plausible stories about having to clean
washing detergent out of free-standing pack-based disk drives? 
23 May
23 May
1:46 p.m.
New subject: Washing machine drives, was Re: BA123's as furniture. . .
On Fri, 22 May 2009 15:14:19 -0500 (CDT), Doc wrote:
> So has anybody come across any plausible stories
about having to clean
> washing detergent out of free-standing pack-based disk drives?
No, but I thought I was going to have to pay for
laundering my
neighbor's pants, the first time he heard an RA60 spin up.
He was appropriately awed at the size of the 11/84,
the RA60, and the
drive packs, and interested as hell watching me load the pack and start
the machine.
When the RA60 started spooling up he started
looking at it sort of
funny (they wind up like a jet turbine if you never heard one). When
the heads unlocked, he made the other end of the garage in one jump. :-)
Many years ago while on a service call at the Detroit Free Press, I witnessed a head
crash
on the composing room system, the drive spun up, the heads unlocked, than there was a big
Boom
when the pack turned to a large cloud of dust and set off the Halon system.
Luck for me I was around the corner working on an Autocon scanner and outside of the
blast.
After that I always took a few steps back when one spun up near me.
This earned me some strangs looks from time to time.
I would respond to these looks with the questions, Have you ever seen a pack blow up?
I have and was very happy I was not standing close to it at the time !
Many years later when I tried to put too much horsepower through a clutch, and it blewup
at about 8k rpm.
When asked what it was like, I said it went off like a head crash on an old washing
machine style disk rive.
Very few had any idea what I was talking about.
But they are the two bigest booms, I have ever seen that only involved kenitic energy with
no oxidizer or
combustion to assist.
The other Bob
2:26 p.m.
New subject: Washing machine drives, was Re: BA123's as furniture. . .
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 09:46:59AM -0400, Bob Bradlee wrote:
I have never seen them head crash, but I was lucky enough to see the
aftermath. I walked in one morning to see the technician with a set of
heads on the table and a voice coil actuator in his arms, I think the
voice coil was about as big as my arm or leg. It looked huge to me.
I am afraid I don't remember which drive it was, but it was one
of the large CDC drives with umpteen many platters. It was about the
largest around at the time.
- Diane
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
On Fri, 22 May 2009 15:14:19 -0500 (CDT), Doc wrote:
...
the heads
unlocked, he made the other end of the garage in one jump. :-)
Many years ago while on a service call at the Detroit Free Press, I witnessed a head
crash
on the composing room system, the drive spun up, the heads unlocked, than there was a big
Boom
when the pack turned to a large cloud of dust and set off the Halon system.
Luck for me I was around the corner working on an Autocon scanner and outside of the
blast.
2:35 p.m.
New subject: Washing machine drives
Many years ago while on a service call at the Detroit
Free Press, I
witnessed a head crash
One of my first jobs was as a weekend operator for Tektronix' CDC Cyber
73 computer.
The machine was powered off at night. At around 9PM each night, the
entire system was powered down. Weekend operations started up a 8AM on
Saturday until 6PM, then Sunday from 9AM until 6PM.
When I'd come in, the machine was turned off, and I had to go through
the long rows of CDC "washing machine" type disk drives and power them
up one at a time. Couldn't power up more than one at a time, as the
surge load would cause breakers to pop, and that was definitely not a
good thing as a drive is spinning up. I'd have to hit the power on the
drive, and wait about 45 seconds for the drive to spin up enough that
the main surge was over with before I could hit the power switch for the
next drive.
It was New Year's Day (don't remember the exact year..probably late
'70's...maybe 1978). It was a Saturday or Sunday, can't remember for
sure. Anyway, I came in and started the power up routine. I had
powered up four or five of the drives when suddenly, the first drive
that I'd powered up started making a very strange shrieking noise,
followed very quickly by a very loud BANG!, then what sounded like the
aftermath of an auto accident. I looked back at the drive (I was perhaps
6 feet from it when this happened), and it was engulfed in a cloud of
smoke. Immediately thereafter, the klaxon went off indicating that a
Halon dump was imminent. I didn't know if the smoke was from something
on fire in the drive, or just from the headcrash, so I bolted out of the
room as fast as I could and let the Halon dump. I didn't want to take
the chance that there was a fire, and have it spread. When the Halon
dumped, the fire system automatically contacted the fire station that
was next door to the Tektronix campus. I waited outside the room until
the firemen showed up, less than 2 minutes from when the Halon dumped.
They went in with respirators and checked to make sure that there was no
fire. Everything was OK, although the area around the disk drive had
small shards of a metallic substance on the floor. They set up fans and
aired out the room. I was then able to go back in. My Lord, what a
mess. It appeared that the disk pack suffered a catastrophic failure.
Don't know if it was because of a head crash, bearing failure, or simply
a pack failure. Whatever it was, it completely destroyed the drive.
The CDC drive (can't remember the model number, unfortunately) was very
well-built. The enclosure for the pack was a huge metal casting with
very thick walls, acting as a scattershield for the pack. The shards
of metal around the drive were not from the pack, but apparently from
the motor, which stopped very violently and broke its mounts. The pack
was reduced to bits, which were all contained within the drive
enclosure. The smoked Plexiglas window in the lid of the drive that
allowed a view of the pack looked like it had been shot with a shotgun,
but didn't break. It was very thick Plexiglas.
I called our CDC rep -- we had two onsite engineers that were devoted to
the support of our system. Come to think of it, it was a Sunday (so it
had to be 1978), because one of them was at church and couldn't be
reached, though he was paged. I also called my boss, who had partied
the night before as a result of the New Year's holiday. He said to hold
off trying to do anything until he got there. After about an hour, one
of the CDC guys showed up, followed shortly thereafter by my boss, who
looked a little worse for the wear :-). The CDC tech. removed the drive
from the chain, cleaned up the mess, and made sure that
the other drives
were OK. The drive that failed had the boot pack on it, so we had
to
change the switch-based boot program (an array of toggle switches that
contained the PPU code to coldstart the machine from tape, which then
read in a disk book loader to boot from disk), and mount a backup boot
pack on one of the other drives. We were able to bring up the system
just fine, and do normal operations for the day. Later in the day, a
replacement disk drive was received, the system downed, the new drive
put in place, and we resumed normal operation. According to the CDC
rep., the failed drive was a total loss.
Thank God that the drives were so well-built. I can't imagine what
would have happened to me if pieces flew out of containment. I always
had a lot more respect for these drives after that event.
Rick Bensene
5:36 p.m.
New subject: Washing machine drives
On 23 May 2009 at 7:35, Rick Bensene wrote:
Whatever it was, it completely destroyed the drive.
The CDC drive
(can't remember the model number, unfortunately) was very well-built.
Given the time, it sounds like an 844; the only other pack drive
that I can recall from that period was the 854, which was more the
size of an IBM 2311 (not used much on 6000/Cyber 70 because it had
256 8-bit byte-sized sectors hard-wired onto it and standard sector
size for the CDC gear was 644 6-bit characters. Two 854 sectors for
one 6000 sector left much of the drive empty).
We were on a project that used farms of the 844s (over 100 was
typical) when they were still very new. (The contract had originally
been spec-ed for the new, but ill-fated 821 4-spindle fixed-disk
drive, along the lines of an 808, but the 821 performed so unreliably
and cost so much that it was scrapped. I used to have a platter from
one, but still have a head).
I used to have a memo from one of the Comsource night operators
detailing his experience with running our benchmark. It started off
something like this "I mounted all of the packs and started the
benchmark, but then got an error on unit xx. When I went to the
drive it was making a funny sound, so I moved the pack to unit yy,
which then started making a funny sound, so I got the backup pack and
mounted it on unit xx...") The eventual toll was something like 11
packs and 7 drives. The blow-by-blow account of the disaster
reminded me of the Gerard Hoffnung story about the workman filing an
accident report after he'd tried to lower a barrel of bricks from a
rooftop.
--Chuck
6:04 p.m.
New subject: Washing machine drives
When I'd come in, the machine was turned off, and
I had to go through
the long rows of CDC "washing machine" type disk drives and power them
up one at a time. ?Couldn't power up more than one at a time, as the
surge load would cause breakers to pop, and that was definitely not a
good thing as a drive is spinning up. ?I'd have to hit the power on the
drive, and wait about 45 seconds for the drive to spin up enough that
the main surge was over with before I could hit the power switch for the
next drive.
CDC installations were not power sequenced? Or just Teks?
--
Will
7:14 p.m.
New subject: Washing machine drives
The University of Missouri, Rolla data center's 2314's were taken out
one night when a pack was changed. They had a system with 9 drives and
a 360/50. The positioner was hydraulic in the 2314's and it decided
when it loaded the heads to fire them on thru the pack out into the
machine room. The resulting cloud of debris and hydraulic fluid crashed
the remining 8 drives and fried the control unit.
The datacenter was on IBM maintainence and was back up in a week. There
was an army of IBM'ers in suits there for the entire time.
I don't know if Jay recalls this, but it was in either 1972 or 1973.
Jim
William Donzelli wrote:
When I'd
come in, the machine was turned off, and I had to go through
the long rows of CDC "washing machine" type disk drives and power them
up one at a time. Couldn't power up more than one at a time, as the
surge load would cause breakers to pop, and that was definitely not a
good thing as a drive is spinning up. I'd have to hit the power on the
drive, and wait about 45 seconds for the drive to spin up enough that
the main surge was over with before I could hit the power switch for the
next drive.
CDC installations were not power sequenced? Or just Teks?
--
Will
24 May
24 May
12:06 a.m.
New subject: Washing machine drives
Will wrote:
CDC installations were not power sequenced? Or just
Tek's?
Don't know if sequencing was the norm for CDC machines of this vintage
or not. At Tek, there was no automation that powered things up in the
correct order. The motor-generator in the basement was left running all
the time, but during non-operation times, everything else was powered
off. I know it made a big difference in the electricity bill to power
down during off hours versus leaving the system running. The room also
had two Modcomp communications processors that served as the serial
front-ends for the Cyber, and a VAX 11/780 that ran VMS during the day,
and Berkeley Unix (4.x) during the night. The Modcomps and the VAX ran
all the time. The Modcomp and VAX serial lines hooked to some kind of
port contender that had a massive panel of serial connections patched
into it for all of the terminals scattered around the campus. Also in
the room was a huge Calcomp flat-bed plotter that was an offline device.
It had a 9-track tape drive attached to it, so any plotter runs required
that a tape be cut, put on the Calcomp, and then run. The plotter used
pressurized ink (red, green, blue & black), which was a bit of a mess to
top off. It made beautiful plots on Mylar, though. I still have a
"spirograph" plot that I made with a Fortran program on the Cyber. I
think that there were a number of PDP 11 systems in there too...I think
that there was an 11/70 or two, and maybe an 11/45. I didn't do
anything with the DEC stuff, my job centered around the Cyber.
IIRC, the sequence for bringing up the Cyber was: First the CPU chiller
was powered up, then the disk drives, then the printer & controller,
then the magtape drives (one 7-track and three 9-tracks) and controller,
then the punched card reader/punch and controller, then the CPU. The
boot magtape was mounted, the deadstart panel checked to make sure that
the bootstrap routine was correct, then the coldstart button (located in
the center of the console (with the two round vector tubes), beneath the
CRT's) was pressed. If all went well, the tape drive ran for a bit,
then the boot pack would hammer for a while, and then KRONOS would be
running. There were a few operator commands necessary to put the
machine into multiuser mode, and that was it. All told, the process
took about 45 minutes or so.
Funny how people complain today when their computers take a minute to
boot up.
Rick
23 May
23 May
4:25 p.m.
New subject: Washing machine drives, was Re: BA123's as furniture. . .
On Fri, 22 May 2009 15:14:19 -0500 (CDT)
Doc <doc at vaxen.net> wrote:
When the RA60 started spooling up he started looking
at it sort of
funny (they wind up like a jet turbine if you never heard one).
Once I listened to
the startup of the 400 Hz motor-generator at
http://www.cray-cyber.org/
The thing needs 400 V three phase and at startup (about one minute)
it draws a current of 120 A. That is 83 kW. 83 kW just to power on the
"PSU" of a single computer. Quite impressive sound.
Several years ago a friend asked me "Is this sound normal?".
He switched on a PeeCee with an old Seagate 5.25" FH SCSI disk. (It was
at a time when 3.5" disks where common.) Typical spin up sound and when
nominal RPM was reached: "BING!" A sound like someone had hit a disk
plater with a hammer. I just pointed to the big solenoid on the drive
and explained that this was the head-lock mechanism... Big eyes staring
into my face and: "You are kidding?" He just couldn't belive...
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
25 May
25 May
9:34 a.m.
Ah but DEC did do real furniture.
My desk in DEC Park had a fitting on the leg to mount a
Rainbow. The colour monitor could be raised and lowered with two buttons
built into edge of the desktop.
One of those would be a real find.
So in the early 1980's I had a desk mounted PC
with a spreadsheet(Multiplan/Visicalc/Lotus/Symphony),
Word processing (Wordstar/WPS), Worldwide internal Email (DEC all-in-one),
Graphics (GKS) and a Database (dBaseII/Dec RDB).
Plus with the Rainbows built in VT100 terminal emulation I could logon (SET
HOST) to just about any
DEC internal system (PDP11?s,VAX?s DEC10?s and 20?s)
I also could dial out to bulletin boards from almost any system I was logged
onto.
Regards
Rod Smallwood
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Jochen Kunz
Sent: 22 May 2009 08:41
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: BA123's as furniture. . .
On Fri, 22 May 2009 00:24:26 -0400
tiggerlasv at aim.com wrote:
> * In my experience, lots of people used to sit on
BA-123s,
> especially people who were large enough that they
should have known
> better.
While I do agree that they should not be used as
seating,
they do make nice occasional tables, nightstands, and
end
tables. ;-)
Please note 8. in the "Top 10 Signs that You are a VAX Geek" below.
At this verry moment I am sitting at a desk build out of a Sun
3/260 and a BA440 DSSI disk box. My work bench in the machie room is
supported by a VAX4000-200 and a HP900-750.
Brian Chase, bdc at world.std.com
05 Oct 1997
__________________________________________________________________
Key traits identifying individuals tendencies towards abnormal
preoccupation with VAX computer systems
__________________________________________________________________
9. When talking about building software you make reference to
compilation times in weeks and days instead of minutes and seconds.
8. You stopped purchasing new furniture when you realized that
your computers work just as well.
7. Your electricity bill is more than your monthly rent payment.
6. You've been hospitalized with muscle strain injuries after
performing some routine hardware maintenance on your computer.
5. You don't have an SO, but it's okay because your computer keeps
you warm at night.
4. While doing laundry, you occassionaly have a mental lapse and try to
wash your socks and underwear in your 11/750.
3. Friends who visit you want to know why there are old-time movie reels
stuck on your refridgerator(s).
2. Your house is pleasantly warm in the dead of winter, even with the
air conditioning turned all the way up.
1. The lights in your home dim or flicker when you reboot.
0. It doesn't matter to you if someone else's computer is faster because
you know your system could smash theirs flat if it fell over on it.
And always remember, no matter what anyone else says. Bigger *IS*
better.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
6:04 p.m.
Ah but DEC did do real furniture.=20
My desk in DEC Park had a fitting on the leg to mount a=20
Rainbow. The colour monitor could be raised and lowered with two buttons
built into edge of the desktop.=20
One of those would be a real find.
Are they that rare? I have one, currently in pieces for storage, but I
have all the bits, of course. Mine came with a Pro350 in the CPU holder,
but from what I rememebr the holder is s pieces of metal screwed togather
and can be assmebled in one of 2 positions to take the smaller ('Bow and
Decmate) or larger (Pro) CPU boxes
Actually, mine might be slightly different, in that the raise/lower
cotnrol is a foot-opereted thing (not strictly a pedal, you push it
backwards, not downad) at the bottom of the desk. That opperates a
capacitor-run motor in the base which turns a screw to move the monitor
pillare up and down. The desktop (large enough for an LK201 and a few
other htings) has a manually-operated ratchet mechanism to set the height.
-tony
8:07 p.m.
At 7:04 PM +0100 5/25/09, Tony Duell wrote:
My guess is how rare they are depends on where you are. Sort of like
the PDT-11's. They're also the sort of thing where most likely
didn't make it into the wild, but rather headed to the scrap heap.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Ah but DEC did
do real furniture.=20
My desk in DEC Park had a fitting on the leg to mount a=20
Rainbow. The colour monitor could be raised and lowered with two buttons
built into edge of the desktop.=20
One of those would be a real find.
Are they that rare? I have one, currently in pieces for storage, but I
26 May
26 May
9:57 a.m.
That sounds like the item. I'm surprised any survived.
I don't remember the foot leaver but I do remember the desk height
adjustment. Yes, now you mention it. You could have different enclosures.
Or rather I remember somebody saying 'At last they have found a use for
PRO350's - Propping up desks!
Regards
Rod Smallwood
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: 25 May 2009 19:04
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: BA123's as furniture. . .
Ah but DEC did do real furniture.=20
My desk in DEC Park had a fitting on the leg to mount a=20
Rainbow. The colour monitor could be raised and lowered with two buttons
built into edge of the desktop.=20
One of those would be a real find.
Are they that rare? I have one, currently in pieces for storage, but I
have all the bits, of course. Mine came with a Pro350 in the CPU holder,
but from what I rememebr the holder is s pieces of metal screwed togather
and can be assmebled in one of 2 positions to take the smaller ('Bow and
Decmate) or larger (Pro) CPU boxes
Actually, mine might be slightly different, in that the raise/lower
cotnrol is a foot-opereted thing (not strictly a pedal, you push it
backwards, not downad) at the bottom of the desk. That opperates a
capacitor-run motor in the base which turns a screw to move the monitor
pillare up and down. The desktop (large enough for an LK201 and a few
other htings) has a manually-operated ratchet mechanism to set the height.
-tony
5696
days inactive
5700
days old
19 comments
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