11 Jan
2013
11 Jan
'13
7 a.m.
Picked up a very dirty but nearly entirely functional HP 9810A recently,
with 9865ACassette Memory drive. While I wait for parts to repair the
9810's mag card reader and printer to arrive, I've been working on
cleaning up the9865A.
It is almost working (and the few rubber parts in it seem to be good) --
however it will not move the tape forward. There are two solenoids that
control the direction of the tape and one of them (for the forward
direction) is not activating. It shouldn't betoo difficult to trace down
the circuit and find the faulty part but before I dig too deep I thought
I'd see if anyone has a service manual for this thing. I've looked in
the usual places on the 'net and haven't found anything, aside from
Tony's notes for the interface.
Thanks as always,
Josh
11 Jan
11 Jan
8:09 a.m.
Youy may have noticed that I have been absent for a while. The reason is
that my home internet access is down, due to problems at the ISP end
(I think). I am reading this in an internet cafe...
Picked up a very dirty but nearly entirely functional
HP 9810A recently,
with 9865ACassette Memory drive. While I wait for parts to repair the
9810's mag card reader and printer to arrive, I've been working on
cleaning up the9865A.
Are you a member of HPCC? The reason I ask is that I wrote a series of
articles for the HPCC magazine on repairing this series of machines, and you
might find them interesting. I would offer to send them to you, but of course
there's no real way to transfer them at the moment.
It is almost working (and the few rubber parts in it seem to be good) --
I would strongly recomend replacing the 2 'tyres' on the drive wheels.
They're
size 119 O-rings IIRC, and are not hard to get.
however it will not move the tape forward. There are
two solenoids that
control the direction of the tape and one of them (for the forward
direction) is not activating. It shouldn't betoo difficult to trace down
the circuit and find the faulty part but before I dig too deep I thought
I'd see if anyone has a service manual for this thing. I've looked in
the usual places on the 'net and haven't found anything, aside from
Tony's notes for the interface.
I believe that some of the boards in the internal tape controller of the
HP9830 are the same (or at least very similar) to those in the
HP9865 -- at least they have 09865-xxxxx part numbers. The
official HP service manual covers the controller to component
level, and of course there are my schematics for the HP9830.
I think the board you want to be looking at (and I am doing
this from memory) is the 09865-66564. There's a little
logic and a couple of transistors to drive the solenoids.
I assume the solenoid isn't burnt out ...
-tony
12:08 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
Namens tony duell
Verzonden: vrijdag 11 januari 2013 9:10
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: RE: HP 9865A Cassette Memory service manual?
Youy may have noticed that I have been absent for a while. The reason is
that
my home internet access is down, due to problems at
the ISP end (I think).
I am
reading this in an internet cafe...
articles
Picked up a very dirty but nearly entirely
functional HP 9810A
recently, with 9865ACassette Memory drive. While I wait for parts to
repair the 9810's mag card reader and printer to arrive, I've been
working on cleaning up the9865A.
Are you a member of HPCC? The reason I ask is that I wrote a series of for the HPCC magazine on repairing this series of
machines, and you might
find
them interesting. I would offer to send them to you,
but of course there's
no
real way to transfer them at the moment.
They're
It is almost working (and the few rubber parts in it seem to be good)
--
I would strongly recomend replacing the 2 'tyres' on the drive wheels.
size 119 O-rings IIRC, and are not hard to get.
service
however it will not move the tape forward. There
are two solenoids
that control the direction of the tape and one of them (for the
forward
direction) is not activating. It shouldn't betoo difficult to trace
down the circuit and find the faulty part but before I dig too deep I
thought I'd see if anyone has a service manual for this thing. I've
looked in the usual places on the 'net and haven't found anything,
aside from Tony's notes for the interface.
I believe that some of the boards in the internal tape controller of the
HP9830 are the same (or at least very similar) to those in the
HP9865 -- at least they have 09865-xxxxx part numbers. The official HP manual covers the controller to component level, and
of course there are
my
schematics for the HP9830.
You can download the HP 9830 service manual at the Australian HPmuseum
website.
Most boards used in the 9865 are the same as in the HP 9830, I know for
sure.
The only boards that differ are the interface logics and the tape drive
board with the head amplifiers on it.
I suppose you looked at the pictures I made from one of mine on flickr,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/sets/72157630819381098/
After you checked the motor drive board, look at the IO card (A61) because
that board contains some 7403 's U1 and U3 which have a tendency to fail.
If this board fails you get errors which seems to point to other components,
so it should be check before you look at other boards.
The manual is very handy when looking for problems, you can find there a
description of all the signals with fault indications.
But also check the interface card, that also can be a pain in the ass (you
should ask Tony friendly if I may send you the diagram of the interface).
You also should look at the LDR from the tape sensor next to the head, they
have a tendency to go to a high resistance > 1k.
The result of that is no fast forward winding because the sensor never
'detects' the darkening of the tape.
I think the board you want to be looking at (and I am
doing this from
memory) is
the 09865-66564. There's a little logic and a
couple of transistors to
drive the
solenoids.
I assume the solenoid isn't burnt out ...
Not likely..
-Rik
12 Jan
12 Jan
4:34 a.m.
On 1/11/2013 4:08 AM, Rik Bos wrote:
cs for the HP9830.
You can download the HP 9830 service manual at the Australian HPmuseum
website.
Most boards used in the 9865 are the same as in the HP 9830, I know for
sure.
The only boards that differ are the interface logics and the tape drive
board with the head amplifiers on it.
Cool. I wasn't aware that the 9830 had a similar cassette drive in it.
I've now got the service manual and it looks like it should make
tracking down the problem fairly straightforward. I hope. :).
I suppose you looked at the pictures I made from one
of mine on flickr,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/sets/72157630819381098/
After you checked the motor drive board, look at the IO card (A61) because
that board contains some 7403 's U1 and U3 which have a tendency to fail.
If this board fails you get errors which seems to point to other components,
so it should be check before you look at other boards.
The manual is very handy when looking for problems, you can find there a
description of all the signals with fault indications.
But also check the interface card, that also can be a pain in the ass (you
should ask Tony friendly if I may send you the diagram of the interface).
Thanks. At the moment, it looks like the interface is working properly
-- the forward motor spins up OK, it just doesn't get engaged by the
solenoid properly. (And other functions under control from the 9810
work OK.) Hopefully it's just the circuit for the solenoid that's at fault.
You also should look at the LDR from the tape sensor next to the head, they
have a tendency to go to a high resistance > 1k.
The result of that is no fast forward winding because the sensor never
'detects' the darkening of the tape.
That seems to be working OK. It rewinds/forwards slowly until it passes
the lead-in and then it speeds up.
Thanks!
Josh
I think the board you want to be looking at (and
I am doing this from
memory) is
the 09865-66564. There's a little logic and a
couple of transistors to
drive the
solenoids.
I assume the solenoid isn't burnt out ...
Not likely..
-Rik
4:37 a.m.
On 1/11/2013 12:09 AM, tony duell wrote:
I'm not, but I suppose at this point I probably should be :). I'd be
interested in seeing your articles. I've found a couple of things
attributed to you on repairing the printer and the card reader, and I'll
be attempting repair of the printer as soon as the cold-shrink tubing I
ordered arrives. (Platen is basically tar at this point.)
Good to know. The ones that are in there seem to be in good shape,
they're still pretty rubbery and aren't degrading into goo like
everything in the 9810 did. But I'll need to replace them at some
point, I'm sure.
Cool. I've now got the 9830 service manual and I'll be doing some
debugging this weekend.
Youy may have noticed that I have been absent for a
while. The reason is
that my home internet access is down, due to problems at the ISP end
(I think). I am reading this in an internet cafe...
Hope your internet connection is restored soon!
Picked up a very dirty but nearly entirely
functional HP 9810A recently,
with 9865ACassette Memory drive. While I wait for parts to repair the
9810's mag card reader and printer to arrive, I've been working on
cleaning up the9865A.
Are you a member of HPCC? The reason I ask is that I wrote a
series of
articles for the HPCC magazine on repairing this series of machines, and you
might find them interesting. I would offer to send them to you, but of course
there's no real way to transfer them at the moment. It is almost working (and the few rubber parts in
it seem to be good) --
I would strongly recomend replacing the 2 'tyres' on
the drive wheels. They're
size 119 O-rings IIRC, and are not hard to get. however it will not move the tape forward. There
are two solenoids that
control the direction of the tape and one of them (for the forward
direction) is not activating. It shouldn't betoo difficult to trace down
the circuit and find the faulty part but before I dig too deep I thought
I'd see if anyone has a service manual for this thing. I've looked in
the usual places on the 'net and haven't found anything, aside from
Tony's notes for the interface.
I believe that some of the boards in the
internal tape controller of the
HP9830 are the same (or at least very similar) to those in the
HP9865 -- at least they have 09865-xxxxx part numbers. The
official HP service manual covers the controller to component
level, and of course there are my schematics for the HP9830.
I think the board you want to be looking at (and I am doing
this from memory) is the 09865-66564. There's a little
logic and a couple of transistors to drive the solenoids.
I assume the solenoid isn't burnt out ...
I will definitely be checking that. I need to trace the wires back to
where they connect to the logic board first.
Thanks!
- Josh
-tony
13 Jan
13 Jan
9:55 a.m.
You may have
noticed that I have been absent for a while. The reason is
that my home internet access is down, due to problems at the ISP end
(I think). I am reading this in an internet cafe...
Hope your internet connection is restored soon! Picked up a very dirty but nearly entirely
functional HP 9810A recently,
with 9865ACassette Memory drive. While I wait for parts to repair the
9810's mag card reader and printer to arrive, I've been working on
cleaning up the9865A.
Are you a member of HPCC? The reason I ask is that I wrote a
series of
articles for the HPCC magazine on repairing this series of machines, and you
might find them interesting. I would offer to send them to you, but of course
there's no real way to transfer them at the moment. interested in seeing your articles. I've found a
couple of things
I will see what I can do...
attributed to you on repairing the printer and the
card reader, and I'll
be attempting repair of the printer as soon as the cold-shrink tubing I
ordered arrives. (Platen is basically tar at this point.)
I do explain this repair in the articles. There are a lot of little bits to
remove and refit....
It is almost working (and the few rubber parts in
it seem to be good) --
I would strongly recomend replacing the 2 'tyres' on
the drive wheels. They're
size 119 O-rings IIRC, and are not hard to get.
I assume the solenoid isn't burnt out ...
I will definitely be checking that. I need to trace the wires back to
where they connect to the logic board first.
14 Jan
14 Jan
12:07 a.m.
On 1/13/2013 1:55 AM, tony duell wrote:
Good to know. The ones that are
in there seem to be in good shape,
they're still pretty rubbery and aren't degrading into goo like
everything in the 9810 did. But I'll need to replace them at some
point, I'm sure. That's a fairly easy repair, at least once the drive is
apart...
I've ordered some replacements along with some O-rings for the mag card
reader.
On the 9830, the tape drive has 4
little 'plugs' (PCBs with pins), one for the motors,
one for the optosensor, one for the solenoids/microswitches and one for the
preamp PCB. The 9865 may be different. In any case, tracing 2 wires can't
be hard :-)
Nope, just hadn't taken the time to do it yet :).
It is almost
working (and the few rubber parts in it seem to be good) --
I would strongly
recomend replacing the 2 'tyres' on the drive wheels. They're
size 119 O-rings IIRC, and are not hard to get. I assume the solenoid isn't burnt out ...
I
will definitely be checking that. I need to trace the wires back to
where they connect to the logic board first.
If there is 09864-66564 PCB in there, the the solenoids are connected between
pins on that board (open-collector stages on the board) to +12V. Shouldn't
be hard to check.
Spent some time debugging last night and narrowed it down to a faulty
transistor (Q8 on the schematic, for those keeping score at home). I've
ordered a replacement and hopefully that'll get everything humming again.
Thanks again for the help,
Josh
-tony
8:11 a.m.
Good to know. The ones that are in there seem to be
in good shape,
they're still pretty rubbery and aren't degrading into goo like
everything in the 9810 did. But I'll need to replace them at some
point, I'm sure.
That's a fairly easy repair, at least once the drive is
apart... If there is
09864-66564 PCB in there, the the solenoids are connected between
pins on that board (open-collector stages on the board) to +12V. Shouldn't
be hard to check.
Spent some time debugging last night and narrowed it down to a faulty
transistor (Q8 on the schematic, for those keeping score at home). I've
ordered a replacement and hopefully that'll get everything humming again.
15 Jan
15 Jan
1:18 a.m.
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 12:11 AM, tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>wrote:
I've ordered some replacements along with some O-rings for the mag card
reader.
What are you doing about the card reader? My repair involves machining a
new
roller hub from brass rod. It works, but you need a small lathe to do it.
I did find your documented method when looking for options, but I lack
access to a lathe to do it. I've ordered some matching O-rings (with a
square cross-section) which hopefully will work. If not, they cost me next
to nothing :).
I assume (without checking the schematics) that's one of the solenoid
drivers.
Yes, that's correct.
Good to know. The ones that are in there seem to be
in good shape,
they're still pretty rubbery and aren't degrading into goo like
everything in the 9810 did. But I'll need to replace them at some
point, I'm sure.
That's a fairly easy repair, at least once the drive is
apart...
At least with the cassette drive, O-rings were the original 'tyres' so you
don't have
to modify any parts to fit new ones.
Yes, that looks like a simple repair.
> If there is 09864-66564 PCB in there, the
the solenoids are connected
between
> pins on that board (open-collector stages on
the board) to +12V.
Shouldn't
be hard
to check.
Spent some time debugging last night and narrowed it down to a faulty
transistor (Q8 on the schematic, for those keeping score at home). I've
ordered a replacement and hopefully that'll get everything humming again.
I looked at the schematic the other day and noticed
that if the
motor is running correctly (so the motor switching transistor is being
driven), the only things that can cause the solenoid not to work are
the driver transistor or the solenoid itself.
I have tried to send you the Datafile (HPCC magazine) articles. Let
me know if there are any problems.
Thanks, received those and I'll be going through them tonight. Thanks!
- Josh
-tony
7:43 p.m.
What are you
doing about the card reader? My repair involves machining a
new
roller hub from brass rod. It works, but you need a small lathe to do it.
I did find your documented method when looking for options, but I lack access to a lathe to do it. I've ordered some
matching O-rings (with a
One problem with having a reasoanble workshop is that you tend ot use it,
and thus my memthods may not be generally applicable. Oh well...
square cross-section) which hopefully will work. If
not, they cost me next
to nothing :).
The original HP 'hubs' are plain, the have no flanges. The original
rubber tyres were moulded onto them. I think any rings stretched over the
original hubs are likely to slip off. Whether you could glue them in
place I don't know. Isocyano acrullic hydro-coplymerising adhesives might
be worth a shot.
I did think, for making a platen roller, of making a mould and casting
new tyres onto the original hub/spindle. In the case of the HP9800 card
reader, you would ahve to remvoe the hubs (and you need a lathe/mill to
make the puller tool to do this) and then make the mould, which agains
would probalby need a lathe. So that's not a lot of good.
At least with the cassette drive, O-rings were the original 'tyres' so you
don't have
to modify any parts to fit new ones.
Yes, that looks like a simple repair. I have tried
to send you the Datafile (HPCC magazine) articles. Let
me know if there are any problems.
Thanks, received those and I'll be going through them tonight. Thanks!
19 Jan
19 Jan
4:52 a.m.
On 1/15/2013 11:43 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
Just to close the loop here (at least on this portion of the repair) the
replacement transistor arrived today and after replacing it (and the
rubber o-rings) everything appears to be working smoothly, I'm able to
save and restore programs to/from cassette tape. Now to find some
shorter cassette tapes, these 60-minute jobs I have seem excessive for
the task at hand ;).
Next up: Repairing the mag strip reader and the printer.
- Josh
Yes, that
looks like a simple repair.
It is, Again, the articles I sent include a
step-by-step strip-down of
the HP9830 tape drive, I thin kthe 9865 one is very similar. BAsically
you have to rmeove the motor assembly (take off the rear bracked and the
motors o nte beam just slide out. Then either fiddle the new rigns in
palce, or remvoe the front panel, the circlip o nthe cassette spindle and
the leaf spidng from the back of the drive wheel, and slide the spindle
out. It takes longer to describe than to do.
7:58 p.m.
Just to close the loop here (at least on this portion
of the repair) the
replacement transistor arrived today and after replacing it (and the
rubber o-rings) everything appears to be working smoothly, I'm able to
Excellent.
save and restore programs to/from cassette tape. Now
to find some
shorter cassette tapes, these 60-minute jobs I have seem excessive for
the task at hand ;).
The cassette needs to have a fairly refelctive plasic chell (white/light
coloured) for the EOT sensor t owork correctly. Light passes through the
clear tape leader and reflects off the cassette shell.
I beleive the correct cassetes have a 'digital' tape which has a
different coerciity to normal audiop recordign tape. Practically this
doesn't make that much difference.
As for the lenght. Assunming your ' 60 minute jobs' are what we used to
call C60s and haev 30 minutes of audio recording time on each side [1],
the length of the tape is about 280 feet. (30 minutes * 1.875 in/s). I
had an idea that the standard digital cassette was, in fact, a 300 foot
tape. So they may not be excessive.
[1] Of course the 9830 and 9865 record o nthe full width of the tape in
on go, you don;t turn the tape over to use the other side.
Next up: Repairing the mag strip reader and the printer.
Good luck :-). With the pritner in particualr there are a lot ofspall
parts -- circlips, washers, etc to go walkabout ;-)
-tony
4365
days inactive
4373
days old
11 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
derschjo＠gmail.com -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl