4 Mar
2015
4 Mar
'15
6:17 p.m.
On 4 March 2015 at 18:56, Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
* Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> [150304
12:45]:
As can Debian, so I'm a bit surprised. It's straight forward on *nix-like
systems to have multiple run-time versions of a library. It's designed
for it.
The problem is when you need different *compile time* (aka development)
versions of a library, then you'll need to have different name spaces.
The remaining issue may be that the distro may not provide different
versions of all the libraries you need out of the box. Then there will
be additional
work. And that may or may not be more effort than it's worth, granted.
-Tor
[...] I had several cases where one program needed
a
specific version of a system library, another program needed a
*different* specific version of the library and the rest of the system
wanting yet a 3rd version of the same library.
TTFN - Guy
After running into that particular package hell early on in my Linux
experience, I switched to Gentoo linux where multiple versions of
libraries can be installed at the same time and used by whatever
software needs them.
Todd 
5 Mar
5 Mar
10:09 a.m.
* Tor Arntsen <kspt.tor at gmail.com> [150304 21:17]:
On 4 March 2015 at 18:56, Todd Goodman <tsg at
bonedaddy.net> wrote:
You don't strictly need different namespaces even at compile time,
just to pull the library in from a different install location (and set
the proper link options on the build.
This is a lot easier under Gentoo than in Debian or RedHat or other
binary distros (IMNSHO.)
And while it's not hard to add a PPD or whatever it's called for Debian,
it's exceedingly easy to add a slotted ebuild on Gentoo supporting a new
version of a library that can be installed alongside other versions of
the same library (runtime and compiletime on Gentoo.)
But to each their own.
Todd
* Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com>
[150304 12:45]:
As can Debian, so I'm a bit surprised. It's straight forward on *nix-like
systems to have multiple run-time versions of a library. It's designed
for it.
The problem is when you need different *compile time* (aka development)
versions of a library, then you'll need to have different name spaces.
The remaining issue may be that the distro may not provide different
versions of all the libraries you need out of the box. Then there will
be additional
work. And that may or may not be more effort than it's worth, granted.
-Tor [...] I had several cases where one program needed
a
specific version of a system library, another program needed a
*different* specific version of the library and the rest of the system
wanting yet a 3rd version of the same library.
TTFN - Guy
After running into that particular package hell early on in my Linux
experience, I switched to Gentoo linux where multiple versions of
libraries can be installed at the same time and used by whatever
software needs them.
Todd
6 Mar
6 Mar
1:08 a.m.
On 5 March 2015 at 19:09, Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
You don't strictly need different namespaces even at compile time,
just to pull the library in from a different install location (and set
the proper link options on the build.
This is a lot easier under Gentoo than in Debian or RedHat or other
binary distros (IMNSHO.)
And while it's not hard to add a PPD or whatever it's called for Debian,
it's exceedingly easy to add a slotted ebuild on Gentoo supporting a new
version of a library that can be installed alongside other versions of
the same library (runtime and compiletime on Gentoo.)
It's no much different from Debian really. You're of course free to
build from source there too, apt-get source instead of apt-get
install, and then build and install. It seems to me the difference is
more in the focus of the package management system, where Gentoo's
'emerge' nominal method is a package from source (but binary is
possible), while on Debian the nominal method is from binary (but
source is possible). And in any case, on any *nix it's of course no
problem keeping different versions (with the same naming - in this
case libsomething.so) anywhere.
But it's a matter of personal preference exactly which distro feels
best for you. For me .deb-based systems totally beat .rpm-based ones,
for example, but not everyone would agree. And I can easily accept
that Gentoo may be better prepared to parallel-install compile time
libraries and still be under package management, but it's a matter of
degree, not ability.
-Tor
* Tor Arntsen <kspt.tor at gmail.com> [150304
21:17]:
> On 4 March 2015 at 18:56, Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
After running into that particular package hell early
on in my Linux
experience, I switched to Gentoo linux where multiple versions of
libraries can be installed at the same time and used by whatever
software needs them.
Todd
As can Debian, so I'm a bit surprised. It's straight forward on *nix-like
systems to have multiple run-time versions of a library. It's designed
for it.
The problem is when you need different *compile time* (aka development)
versions of a library, then you'll need to have different name spaces.
The remaining issue may be that the distro may not provide different
versions of all the libraries you need out of the box. Then there will
be additional
work. And that may or may not be more effort than it's worth, granted.
-Tor
5:59 a.m.
* Tor Arntsen <kspt.tor at gmail.com> [150306 04:08]:
On 5 March 2015 at 19:09, Todd Goodman <tsg at
bonedaddy.net> wrote:
You don't strictly need different namespaces even at compile time,
just to pull the library in from a different install location (and set
the proper link options on the build.
This is a lot easier under Gentoo than in Debian or RedHat or other
binary distros (IMNSHO.)
And while it's not hard to add a PPD or whatever it's called for Debian,
it's exceedingly easy to add a slotted ebuild on Gentoo supporting a new
version of a library that can be installed alongside other versions of
the same library (runtime and compiletime on Gentoo.)
It's no much different from Debian really. You're of course free to
build from source there too, apt-get source instead of apt-get
install, and then build and install. It seems to me the difference is
more in the focus of the package management system, where Gentoo's
'emerge' nominal method is a package from source (but binary is
possible), while on Debian the nominal method is from binary (but
source is possible). And in any case, on any *nix it's of course no
problem keeping different versions (with the same naming - in this
case libsomething.so) anywhere.
But it's a matter of personal preference exactly which distro feels
best for you. For me .deb-based systems totally beat .rpm-based ones,
for example, but not everyone would agree. And I can easily accept
that Gentoo may be better prepared to parallel-install compile time
libraries and still be under package management, but it's a matter of
degree, not ability.
-Tor
Yes exactly, Gentoo's package manager is source-centric which makes it
really easy to support bringing your special build under the package
umbrella to work with it instead of against it.
There are sometimes problems with the *nix method of shared library
versioning (e.g., when upstream doesn't bump .so versions or does a
minor when they should do a major.)
Yes, it's a matter of personal preference.
It's good to be aware of the different options available though and I
just wanted to let people know what's worked for me. Your mileage may
vary, etc.
Todd
* Tor Arntsen <kspt.tor at gmail.com>
[150304 21:17]:
> On 4 March 2015 at 18:56, Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
After running into that particular package hell early
on in my Linux
experience, I switched to Gentoo linux where multiple versions of
libraries can be installed at the same time and used by whatever
software needs them.
Todd
As can Debian, so I'm a bit surprised. It's straight forward on *nix-like
systems to have multiple run-time versions of a library. It's designed
for it.
The problem is when you need different *compile time* (aka development)
versions of a library, then you'll need to have different name spaces.
The remaining issue may be that the distro may not provide different
versions of all the libraries you need out of the box. Then there will
be additional
work. And that may or may not be more effort than it's worth, granted.
-Tor
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