Good points to it and bad points - it sucks if you're buying but great if you're selling. The first part of the year was bad, right around tax time but it's picking up again. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gunther Schadow -> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 5:40 PM -> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Ebay madness -> -> -> Well, I haven't watched the szene until april/may this year, but -> I'm not too confident that prices are dropping. Actually I think -> we ought to keep a low profile in order to keep this classic computer -> stuff from becoming a fad. Things like newspaper features will -> eventually hurt us, because the one main issue with classic computer -> stuff is that it's rare. -> -> As Chuck mentioned the VAX 4000/300s on ebay their prices are up -> by now. I would be surprized if they sold for less than $150 this -> time. It isn't over until it's over, as they say. The only reason -> for prices may be moderate right now is it's vacation time. -> -> Have you watched the PDP-8's. It's now the 3rd in the last 3 weeks -> or so, the first two have not sold under $500 and this one is at -> $200 last time I looked. The PDP-11s sold for same amount almost. -> -> Watch how the UNIBUS and QBUS SCSI cards trade. Over $200 minimum. -> -> Who are the buyers? Some have so high feedback numbers that I'm -> afraid those are traders who try to make money out of this. -> -> In conclusion, I really think that newspaper features about vintage -> computing and conferences with lots of publicity do hurt the vintage -> computer hobbyist because they invite people who merely have money -> to spend on a fad. -> -> regards -> -Gunther -> -> -> Steve Robertson wrote: -> > -> > >Some more interesting Ebay madness is that some nice VAX -> systems are going -> > >quite cheaply. There is a 4000/300 on Ebay for less than $20, -> the CPU alone -> > >is worth that, and if it has memory too... A 4000/200 in the -> nice BA215 -> > >case sold recently for $60. So you see the market works as you would -> > >expect, these things come out of the woodwork and the prices on ebay -> > >reflect the increased availability. -> > > -> > >--Chuck -> > > -> > -> > Seems to me that prices on eBay have dropped over the last -> year or so. This -> > could be because of the depressed economy or the fact that some of us -> > collectors are becoming "saturated". -> > -> > I've certainly slowed down on my purchases. Nowadays, a -> computer's gotta be -> > really cheap before I'll buy it. -> > -> > _________________________________________________________________ -> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at -> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -> -> -- -> Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org -> Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care -> Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine -> tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org ->

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Sellam Ismail wrote: Hey, I hope I didn't offend you. If you have a different opinion, that's O.K. Chuck is right, the stuff may be out ther and ebay is a great flea market where it shows up. I was just worried about an exploding demand. I don't know what's right. -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

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I'd have to agree. Most of it isn't worth enough to make having to deal with how bulky it is worth while from a dealer's standpoint. It's not like coins and stamps where you can toss all the really common stuff into a box. This is what will keep speculators zeroing in on specific machines to buy/sell vice doing as they did with the various other hobbies and buying everything under the sun. In that respect, due to the space requirements, this hobby is more like the classic car collector. In that hobby it's still possible to get some really nice cars for a reasonable amount but certain specfic areas, such as 60's muscle cars or your luxury cars This isn't to say there isn't some pretty good price gouging going on with regards to some classic computer stuff, because there is. The few truly high dollar machines though aren't indicative of the valuation of the rest. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

While there's plenty of room for disagreement regarding the merit of classic computer hardware as an "investment," in a nationwide market, as provided by eBay, its value is significant. One example, is the Heathkit Microprocessor Trainer that sat at the Denver Gateway Electronics store for over two years with a pricetag of $40. One sold for $250 or thereabouts on eBay, and, suddenly, the one at Gateway was gone. There are people who value such things. There just aren't very many, as a proportion of the population. Denver is an area somewhat over a million people. The country is approaching 300 million. I don't think it's going to take a rocket scientist to figure out that even if there isn't one interested party in a particular million, there might just be a couple or three in 300 million. While the locals may see something as junk, others, not local, disagree. I think that's great! What's great about eBay and the like is that it opens up that market, i.e. the entire 300 million to those of us who have got stuff that the local million or so might not want, but that we believe has value, though we don't want it ourselves, so that those other 299 million can see that we have it if they do want it. That, also, is what's not so convenient about eBay. Now, I've gotten 256MB DRAMs for $10 and bargains like that from time to time, and I've also missed a few by a few (who knows?) bucks, but having to bid against the entire market is sometimes not to my advantage. It is the way the market works, though. It certainly beats the alternative. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" <bshannon(a)tiac.net> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Ebay madness

Collecting firearms takes up nowhere near the space that collecting vintage computers does though, and the space problem is the thing that I see will limit the people who get into this hobby. That is also why it's doubtful you will see specialty shops selling vintage computer stuff the way you see shops dealing in stamps, coins, vintage cameras and comic books. The onhand inventory would be very limited due to space which would mean that the seller would stick to those few very high priced systems in order to make a profit. The problem there is that there wouldn't be a large enough supply to make it worth while, even though the demand might be there. Classic car dealers get away with it because the hobby as a whole is built around big ticket items, which again is not the case with collecting computers. Of course demand will rise and supplies will drop as time goes on. Much to our dismay, regardless of how we put the word out, people will still trash these early systems. Attrition due to parts wearing out and corrosion will also whittle away at the supplly. You give an example of one of the few big dollar systems though. Demand already outpaces the supply. This doesn't mean it will be that way for a larger selection of machines though. There are a lot of truly interesting machines that are practically ignored and that it is nearly impossible to find information concerning. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757