22 May
1998
22 May
'98
4:49 a.m.
<I whole-heartedly, unequivocally agree. But you're discounting Linux.
<I'm surprised. Five years from now Windows' dominance will be a
<non-issue. The world will have been made much more colorful and free by
<Linux. I hope you believe me because I'd hate to prove you wrong in fiv
<year's time (plus I need to get a win after being called on my "bzzt"
fo
<being wrong about the origins of Unix :)
Linux is free and it may be better (it's abosolute hell to install) but
Linux is not the default OS on every wintel box nor io it it shipped with
more than a fraction of a percent of them. Also for those interested in
running the small landslide of apps out there for DOS/WINDERS Linux is a
non player.
Why do I say that, I have linux, it doesn't run PADS, Gcadd, most of my
cross assemblers and a few other apps I depend on. I've tried, even
WP5/dos under linux is strange and tends to die. Setting up an IP network
is pure hell compared to setting up DECNET. Like win95 and later it also
requires more than the 8mb of ram I have or it runs poorly. It's
windowing system is a hog (I'm used to running VMS/DECwindows and a half
dozen engineers in 8mb on a VAX!). Linux(freeBSD, netBSD, Minix etal) is
not the cure all, its a good competitor and offers things for some users
that would otherwise have to run NT(even nastier) but, it's not engineerd
for the common user. Then again, I've never installed a W95 system nor
will I anytime soon. I do run W3.1 and compared to doing a dos6.22/w3.1
(or VMS) install linux is very painful and unpleasent. There is a lot to
be fixed for the user that want's to run stuff rather than run make files.
Like it or not a software investment determines the value of an OS in the
long run. It's why I also run CP/M-80 still. This is computer history,
it's also how we have the Y2k problem and some pretty dumb software as
well.
Allison
22 May
22 May
6 a.m.
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8:05 p.m.
On Fri, 22 May 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:
Linux is free and it may be better (it's abosolute
hell to install) but
Linux is not the default OS on every wintel box nor io it it shipped with
more than a fraction of a percent of them. Also for those interested in
running the small landslide of apps out there for DOS/WINDERS Linux is a
non player.
Believe me when I tell you (and I can only back this up with gut
instincts) that it doesn't matter. The world is changing, and if nothing
than by sheer force of will, Linux will prevail, or in the very least
crush the MS monopoly. I think it is not far fetched in the least to
imagine in five years that manufactures like Dell and Compaq and Gateway
will start selling Linux boxes, as long as the DOJ is reasonably
successful. But even if they don't, Linux is just gaining too much
momentum and acceptance (admittedly right now primarily amongst the
techies, but it will spread to the public at large) and it will slowly
creep into the mainstream.
Why do I say that, I have linux, it doesn't run
PADS, Gcadd, most of my
cross assemblers and a few other apps I depend on. I've tried, even
WP5/dos under linux is strange and tends to die. Setting up an IP network
is pure hell compared to setting up DECNET. Like win95 and later it also
requires more than the 8mb of ram I have or it runs poorly. It's
Well, I don't know what you're doing wrong but I've run a Linux box on a
486/33 with 8MB and it screamed. As for the apps not being available,
either give it time or bite the bullet and write them yourself and
contribute them to the linux collective. That's what its all about!
windowing system is a hog (I'm used to running
VMS/DECwindows and a half
dozen engineers in 8mb on a VAX!). Linux(freeBSD, netBSD, Minix etal) is
not the cure all, its a good competitor and offers things for some users
that would otherwise have to run NT(even nastier) but, it's not engineerd
for the common user. Then again, I've never installed a W95 system nor
You've got to check out Applixware! All I say to this is "...yet!" This
may not all be true yet, but its happening. Linux is becoming easier for
even the common turd to use. Like I said, give this time. Five years.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
23 May
23 May
1:57 a.m.
Believe me when I tell you (and I can only back this up with gut
instincts) that it doesn't matter. The world is changing, and if nothing
than by sheer force of will, Linux will prevail, or in the very least
crush the MS monopoly. I think it is not far fetched in the least to
imagine in five years that manufactures like Dell and Compaq and Gateway
will start selling Linux boxes, as long as the DOJ is reasonably
successful. But even if they don't, Linux is just gaining too much
momentum and acceptance (admittedly right now primarily amongst the
techies, but it will spread to the public at large) and it will slowly
creep into the mainstream.
And if you like Linux, the real winner will be FreeBSD which does
what Linux does, only better. It has compatibility modes that let you
run Linux, and SCO binaries and actually is easy to set up compared
to many of the Linux varients.
And there's only ONE distribution. And the thing is built as a SYSTEM
to run as a system.
To build the whole thing from source just type make world in /usr/src.
To install over the internet -- just boot the single install floppy
and go.
It isn't VAX/VMS (or RT11) -- but what is.
Bill
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| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. |
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+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
3:21 a.m.
Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote:
And if you like Linux, the real winner will be FreeBSD
which does
what Linux does, only better. It has compatibility modes that let you
run Linux, and SCO binaries and actually is easy to set up compared
to many of the Linux varients.
And there's only ONE distribution. And the thing is built as a SYSTEM
to run as a system.
To build the whole thing from source just type make world in /usr/src.
To install over the internet -- just boot the single install floppy
and go.
I've got both. FreeBSD supports at best a quarter of the hardware
that Linux does -- in large part because it _is_ just the one
distribution with the one design team, instead of a planetwide
anarchist cooperative. Linux runs SCO binaries just fine as well,
the iBCS module was migrated to FreeBSD from Linux.
This is _not_ the forum for that particular (and peculiar) religious
war. I've been a Unix junkie since I first tried Xenix on a TRS-80
Model 16 shortly before it officially shipped to the RSCC where I
did tech support. Part of the problem I have with the so-called
fight between the government and Microsoft is that while I prefer to
avoid MS when I can, I usually can -- the government on the other hand
I can never avoid whether I desire or not since they have lots of guns
and lately a free hand in using them -- but that's also a discussion
for a different mailing list (check out <http://www.lrt.org> for
subscription info).
--
Ward Griffiths
They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
3:28 a.m.
Ward Griffiths wrote:
I've got both. FreeBSD supports at best a quarter
of the hardware
that Linux does -- in large part because it _is_ just the one
distribution with the one design team, instead of a planetwide
anarchist cooperative. Linux runs SCO binaries just fine as well,
the iBCS module was migrated to FreeBSD from Linux.
So do I. I have both and like both. I respect the Linux community
for their evangelism.
I've run Linux since about 99.10 back in the days of the SLS->Slackware
migration. I love it. If it wasn't for FreeBSD I'd still make it
my main platform. It may even be a better desktop answer for many
folks. I find as a server platform I prefer FreeBSD for ease of
maintenance and reliability. I'm running two web servers on it at work.
This is _not_ the forum for that particular (and peculiar) religious
war. I've been a Unix junkie since I first tried Xenix on a TRS-80
Model 16 shortly before it officially shipped to the RSCC where I
did tech support.
Ah, well. My real favorite things are DEC OS's and CP/M 2.2.
Unix came along after I was hooked on RT11, RSTS, VAX/VMS.
One of the things that made Unix successful was it's spread through
universities. Once you get hooked on an OS you tend to want to
stay with it. AT&T was very lucky with Unix and no one's been
able to duplicate the spread except Linux.
(Now I'm at Lucent Technologies in Holmdel and I'm being pushed to NT
and Microsoft OS stuff... 8-( )
The problem is I need to be "MS Word and MS Excel bug and file compatible"
to do my job (Sys Admin)... this gets me to using Win95 on my
desktop.
(I know NT's better -- but the @##$%&^* desktop's a 486 with 16MB memory).
Bill
24 May
24 May
2:11 a.m.
Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote:
Unix came along after I was hooked on RT11, RSTS,
VAX/VMS.
One of the things that made Unix successful was it's spread through
universities. Once you get hooked on an OS you tend to want to
stay with it. AT&T was very lucky with Unix and no one's been
able to duplicate the spread except Linux.
If I'd stayed in college instead of enlisting in the USAF due to lack
of funds for things like tuition and food, chances are I would have
gotten into the DEC systems at Georgia Tech.
(Now I'm at Lucent Technologies in Holmdel and
I'm being pushed to NT
and Microsoft OS stuff... 8-( )
Yeah. I still regret assembling that NT network at AT&T Corporate
Security in Bridgewater, but that's where I was sent by my boss at
the Lincroft (GIS) facility a few years back, and I _still_ have
that damned addiction to food.
The problem is I need to be "MS Word and MS Excel
bug and file compatible"
to do my job (Sys Admin)... this gets me to using Win95 on my
desktop.
At Prudential in Roseland last year, my desktop was running Redhat
Linux with Caldera WABI -- so I was able to get away with it almost
unnoticed running the 16-bit MS Office and Lotus Notes modules. Of
_course_ that was contrary to corporate standards.
(I know NT's better -- but the @##$%&^*
desktop's a 486 with 16MB memory).
NT's better than what? (I have NT Server on my desk at work now,
and I can't lose it because nobody's come out with a Linux driver
for the plug & play version of token ring card I've got -- the rest
of the building is 100 Mb Ethernet, but _my_ lab is still token ring
and probably will be for longer than this contract lasts. (I gotta
get away, after all these years as a Sysadmin, I got roped into doing
software QA again -- been there, done that, burned the t-shirt).
Oh, OBclassicmp -- at the Lincroft NJ AT&T facility two years ago,
there was at least one 3B1 still in use in a lab I couldn't access
but could see through the door, and at Prudential in Roseland there
must be several hundred IBM PS2 Model 80's that they haven't
figured out how to throw away.
--
Ward Griffiths
They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
23 May
23 May
7 a.m.
On Sat, 23 May 1998, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote:
And if you like Linux, the real winner will be FreeBSD
which does
what Linux does, only better. It has compatibility modes that let you
run Linux, and SCO binaries and actually is easy to set up compared
to many of the Linux varients.
Why would FreeBSD need a Linux compatibility mode if it was so much
superior to FreeBSD? But anyway, the real issue is that, from a
development standpoint, Linux is, and will always be, more successful and
therefore more widespread than FreeBSD. Sure FreeBSD is in some ways
better than Linux. But FreeBSD is controlled by a small group. Linux is
the world. That in itself is the reason why Linux has prevailed over all
other unix variants for the hobbyist, and why it will continue to thrive.
And there's only ONE distribution. And the thing
is built as a SYSTEM
to run as a system.
So? I'd rather have the option to choose from several distributions. And
I'd rather have the competition between those distributions that will
invite innovation.
The problem is you're comparing an OS that will forever remain trapped in
the academic realm to an operating system that is transitioning over into
the commercial market. You've got companies making commercial use of
Linux and selling it to mainstream customers. This trend will continue to
grow.
To build the whole thing from source just type make
world in /usr/src.
To install over the internet -- just boot the single install floppy
and go.
Cool. I'm sure Linux has a similar capability.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
5:31 a.m.
[Linux is becoming easy enough for joe-random-luser...]
Bwahahahaha! It's coming!
World Domination thru Linux!
(And you thought all that was a Joke. We ARE out to rule the world! :-)
If Linux becomes easy enough to install and use, and people write the apps
for it, it can do nothing BUT take over. Simple economics. People will want
to buy products for the cheapest price they can get. Once Linux becomes
easy enough to deal with, and has enough applications to attract more
developers, Free is cheaper than $99 (Or whatever Windoze sells for).
Join or die! Your time is running out!
(Now, just wait for Linux/vax and Me getting my 785...
World Domination and 3-phase Power! :-)
-------
9557
days inactive
9559
days old
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
allisonp＠world.std.com -
dastar＠wco.com -
DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com -
gram＠cnct.com -
pechter＠shell.monmouth.com -
shoppa＠alph02.triumf.ca