17 Aug
2001
17 Aug
'01
6:52 a.m.
PROGRAM
SayHello(INPUT, OUTPUT)
BEGIN
WHILE (TRUE)
BEGIN
WRITELN('Hello World');
END;
END.
I think what you wanted to say was this:
PROGRAM SayHello(OUTPUT);
BEGIN
WRITELN('Hello World');
END. 
17 Aug
17 Aug
8:41 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
Hello World,
I'm trying to restock a large (900W) UPS with batteries.
Anybody have a pointer to a good battery site?
Can car batteries be good for a UPS? Seems they are
for high Amps, short duration, Might they also be good
for general purpose?
On a parallel track I'm trying to revive some old mid sized
6 &12V batteries, so the pointer would help.
John A.
No, 30 microvolts! --Dr. Beverly Crusher
9:14 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
Many used Yuasa sealed batteries, the same used in alarm systems and
motorcycles, you can pick up batteries from a local motorcycle dealer and
smaller ones can be picked up at alarm dealers, I've never seen them there,
but it could'nt hurt calling Home Depot to see if they stock such things,
most likely not though.
Curt
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Allain" <allain(a)panix.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 1:41 PM
Subject: Car batteries in the home?
Hello World,
I'm trying to restock a large (900W) UPS with batteries.
Anybody have a pointer to a good battery site?
Can car batteries be good for a UPS? Seems they are
for high Amps, short duration, Might they also be good
for general purpose?
On a parallel track I'm trying to revive some old mid sized
6 &12V batteries, so the pointer would help.
John A.
No, 30 microvolts! --Dr. Beverly Crusher
11:37 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
John Allain wrote:
Can car batteries be good for a UPS?
I tried using deep cycle lead-acid batteries in a couple
of 2KVA units. They were perfectly capable of holding up the
UPS (be sure your UPS has adequate cooling -- some don't, on
the assumption that the batteries will go flat before the
temperature rise in the inverter gets out of hand). However,
the charge characteristics of lead-acids vs. gelled electrolyte
cells confused the hell out of the charger in the UPS -- it would
routinely boil off the batteries.
I ended up switching back to gel cells -- although I was able to
find ones from Panasonic which were the same physical size but
twice the capacity, which was kinda nice :-)
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
9:36 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
Hi,
I'm trying to restock a large (900W) UPS with
batteries.
Anybody have a pointer to a good battery site?
Can car batteries be good for a UPS? Seems they are
for high Amps, short duration, Might they also be good
for general purpose?
Surly leisure batteries would be better?
Car batteries are designed to give approx 200A-500A (depending on
size) for a few seconds - leisure batteries are designed to give lower
currents for a more sustained duration (and have a higher capacity)
On a parallel track I'm trying to revive some
old mid sized
6 &12V batteries, so the pointer would help.
Lead Acid? Hrm. The problem lies in corrosion of the lead plates in the
cells. Not really sure your best plan of action - sorry.
-- Matt
---
E-mail:
matt(a)pkl.net, matt(a)knm.yi.org, matt(a)printf.net
matt(a)m-techdiagnostics.ltd.uk, matthew.london(a)stud.umist.ac.uk
mattl(a)vcd.student.utwente.nl, mlondon(a)mail.talk-101.com
Web Page:
http://knm.yi.org/
http://pkl.net/~matt/
PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F
PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html
10:26 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
Surly leisure batteries would be better?
Thanks. The term 'leisure batteries' kicked off a search
that is leading to some www answers, like here:
http://www.bcaaust.com.au/battery1.htm
Stationary, Starter, Traction, and Leisure Batteries
Lead Acid?
These were of the "Stationary" type.
I'm trying a quick 1/2 hour 'validation' charge (Test 1).
If the battery balks (overheats or delivers next to nothing)
it's tossed for the next one. Test 2 is a constant charge
while monitoring the V increase every 1/2 hour.
If it plateaus it is also tossed. I'm going on intuition though.
John A.
10:19 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
I'm trying to restock a large (900W) UPS with
batteries.
Anybody have a pointer to a good battery site?
Can car batteries be good for a UPS? Seems they are
for high Amps, short duration, Might they also be good
for general purpose?
Here in Socal I know a great battery site, but you would need some deep
pockets to ship a battery, so why not give your general area?
Car batteries are worthless for a UPS, they don't deep cycle well at all.
OTOH most people don't use the UPS very often, so maybe that wouldn't
matter. I don't pay that much of a premium for the correct battery (gel
cell) so I don't worry about it.
Having a regular car battery in your house could be VERY dangerous. I have
thought about one in the garage a bit though. You don't have to walk too
far down that path for a small gas generator to be much more practical.
12:31 p.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Mike Ford wrote:
Car batteries are worthless for a UPS, they don't
deep cycle well at all.
There's a new type of car battery that I saw a couple of months ago in
an auto-supply store; I can't think of the name of it at the moment,
but I seem to recall it being a sealed battery capable of deep
cycling. From what I recall, it had a slightly oval shape to it if
looking at the top of it. However, it's ratings are a bit lower than
regular batteries: I think the largest one was only about 800 CCA,
whereas my car battery is rated at 1,000 CCA.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
10:39 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
Car batteries are not good for a UPS because they are not "deep cycle"
batteries (that is they don't expect to be drained all the way to zero,
which damages them)
I built a UPS for my wife out of a couple of deep cycle marine batteries
and a 600W inverter. We've got a solar panel that keeps it topped off. Can
run the laptop for days ...
--Chuck
At 01:41 PM 8/17/01 -0400, you wrote:
Can car batteries be good for a UPS?
12:33 p.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck McManis" <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Car batteries in the home?
Car batteries are not good for a UPS because they are
not "deep
cycle"
batteries (that is they don't expect to be drained
all the way to
zero,
which damages them)
I built a UPS for my wife out of a couple of deep cycle marine
batteries
and a 600W inverter. We've got a solar panel that
keeps it topped
off. Can
run the laptop for days ...
I have a brother that runs his whole house off of batteries and a
small Honda generator. He's putting on a solar panel soon.
Check with the phone company, they replace the batteries on their
UPS's regularly.
18 Aug
18 Aug
7:45 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
At 12:39 PM 8/17/01 -0700, Chuck wrote:
Car batteries are not good for a UPS because they are
not "deep cycle"
batteries (that is they don't expect to be drained all the way to zero,
which damages them)
That, plus the fact that plate surface area is maximized for a
very high short-circuit current. In turn, this means that the
volumetric energy density is much lower for a car battery
than for a UPS battery.
Carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
4:59 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
It's cheaper to use motorcycle batteries than to replace the Gel-Cell batteries
common in older UPS'. There's no reason that shouldn't work. I have an
800W
UPS that came with gel-cells, that now has motorcycle batteries in it. The
gel-cells cost $110 each, while the motorcycle batteries cost $36 each. It's
not hard figuring out which I prefer. Now, there may be some hazards ...
What kind of batteries are you trying to revive? I've got some old (1980) 6volt
and 12volt types I've kept around since they were new. These get recharged
about every two years, and seem to hold charge pretty well. Two of them are
6-volt GATES lead-acid cell types, with three pairs of cells in each one, while
the others are sealed lead acid types. Both seem to like the nominally 9-volt
2-amp charger I got with the latter.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Allain" <allain(a)panix.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 11:41 AM
Subject: Car batteries in the home?
Hello World,
I'm trying to restock a large (900W) UPS with batteries.
Anybody have a pointer to a good battery site?
Can car batteries be good for a UPS? Seems they are
for high Amps, short duration, Might they also be good
for general purpose?
On a parallel track I'm trying to revive some old mid sized
6 &12V batteries, so the pointer would help.
John A.
No, 30 microvolts! --Dr. Beverly Crusher
6:22 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
... motorcycle batteries cost $36 each ...
there may be some hazards ...
Yeah, you short out those guys and it's molten lead city.
Wait, you'd probably like that.
What kind of batteries are you trying to revive?
The ~3pound spade lug emergency lighting cuboids
6V 10Ah; Yuasa (NP10-6) and Panasonic (LCR6V10PA)
I tried 12V 1/2hour. Most register 3V,10mA (no misprint)
afterwards so they may all be toast. Only one of the Pana's
got hot, as if shorted.
John A.
11:38 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
Nope ... Not hot enough.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Allain" <allain(a)panix.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Car batteries in the home?
... motorcycle
batteries cost $36 each ...
there may be some hazards ...
Yeah, you short out those guys and it's molten lead city.
Wait, you'd probably like that.
What kind of batteries are you trying to revive?
The ~3pound spade lug emergency lighting cuboids
6V 10Ah; Yuasa (NP10-6) and Panasonic (LCR6V10PA)
I tried 12V 1/2hour. Most register 3V,10mA (no misprint)
afterwards so they may all be toast. Only one of the Pana's
got hot, as if shorted.
John A.
7:16 a.m.
New subject: Car batteries in the home?
Sorry, this is bad advice!
Motorcycle batteries will work, for a short time. Then they will need to be
replaced and end-up costing you far more than if you had gotten the proper battery
in the first place.
The reason why is that motorcycle batteries are not 'deep cycle' batteries, and
loose a lot of their capacity when discharged. A motor cycle battery is designed to
deliver a moderate current for a very short time, and then be recharged imediately.
Deep cycle batteries used on a UPS (or robot application) have a different plate
design, and chemical buffers added to the electrolyte to no irreversable reactions
take place to reduce the active area of the plates inside the battery.
Also, motor cycle batteries are not that much cheaper than a gel cell, as gel cells
are now made in huge numbers. Gel cells are also much safer to have indoors than
motor cycle batteries that vent hydrogen gas during charge and discharge operations.
Richard Erlacher wrote:
It's cheaper to use motorcycle batteries than to
replace the Gel-Cell batteries
common in older UPS'. There's no reason that shouldn't work. I have an
800W
UPS that came with gel-cells, that now has motorcycle batteries in it. The
gel-cells cost $110 each, while the motorcycle batteries cost $36 each. It's
not hard figuring out which I prefer. Now, there may be some hazards ...
What kind of batteries are you trying to revive? I've got some old (1980) 6volt
and 12volt types I've kept around since they were new. These get recharged
about every two years, and seem to hold charge pretty well. Two of them are
6-volt GATES lead-acid cell types, with three pairs of cells in each one, while
the others are sealed lead acid types. Both seem to like the nominally 9-volt
2-amp charger I got with the latter.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Allain" <allain(a)panix.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 11:41 AM
Subject: Car batteries in the home?
> Hello World,
>
> I'm trying to restock a large (900W) UPS with batteries.
> Anybody have a pointer to a good battery site?
> Can car batteries be good for a UPS? Seems they are
> for high Amps, short duration, Might they also be good
> for general purpose?
> On a parallel track I'm trying to revive some old mid sized
> 6 &12V batteries, so the pointer would help.
>
> John A.
> No, 30 microvolts! --Dr. Beverly Crusher
>
>
8370
days inactive
8371
days old
14 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
allain＠panix.com -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
chris＠mainecoon.com -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
cmurillo＠emtelsa.multi.net.co -
curt＠atari-history.com -
dittman＠dittman.net -
edick＠idcomm.com -
KenzieM＠sympatico.ca -
matt＠knm.yi.org -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
rdd＠smart.net