27 Jun
2001
27 Jun
'01
8:29 a.m.
Hello,
Multiple apologies in advance: The peripherals are generally
on-topic (and I think that's where my problem is), but the primary unit
under investigation, the VAX, isn't until next year. Also, please forgive
the long post. Finally, I'm in digest mode, so I'll respond slowly unless
you cc me at mtapley(a)swri.edu .
I'm trying to load OpenVMS Hobbyist (at last!) onto a VaxStation
4000 VLC. A lot is working, but something isn't. Here's what I have:
VaxStation 4000 VLC
16 M Ram
RZ26-L (1Gig) hard drive, no jumpers on terminator block, SCSI ID 1.
S3 in up position
Rainbow 100A, running Kermit on MS-DOS 3.11b, 9600/8/n/1
Offset-snap RJ11 DEC serial console cable, from VAX console connector to
adaptor to DB25 at Rainbow COMM port
50pin M-M Centronics-type (off-brand) SCSI cable
AppleCD 300 external (caddy-load) (can you see trouble coming right here?)
SCSI ID = 2
External SCSI terminator.
The SCSI is, if I'm correctly reading what RZ26 docs I have, terminated at
the RZ26 and at the CD drive. (I know, this is not both "ends" of the
cable. The RZ-26 is within about 10 cm. of the computer end of the cable.)
I've tried the terminator-block jumper in all three positions (off, on one
pair, on the other pair) on the RZ26, same results. I've also tried with
and without the external terminator on the CD, same results.
When I turn everything else on, load the CD caddy with the DEC Hobbyist VMS
CD in place, then turn on the VAX, I see on the Rainbow (edited from the
Kermit session log, esc/other special characters dealt with harshly by my
text editor and me):
KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0
08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A
16MB
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
?? 010 2 LCG 0086
?? 001 9 NI 0172
?? 121 10 SCSI 0034
>>
uh-oh. I'm *hoping* the LCG line means no monitor attached to the VAX
graphics board (true, also no keyboard or mouse - yet), and the NI line
means I'm not connected to a network (also true, so far). Anybody with a
4000 VLC owners' manual? The SCSI line worries me. (When I boot without the
CD drive attached, or with the CD drive turned off, it does not appear.) If
I then do SHOW CONFIG I see:
KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0
08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A
16MB
DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO
------ -------- --------------------------
1 NVR OK
2 LCG ?? 010 0086
HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.2
3 DZ OK
4 CACHE OK
5 MEM OK
16MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=0MB
6 FPU OK
7 IT OK
8 SYS OK
9 NI ?? 001 0172
10 SCSI ?? 121 0034
1-RZ26L 2-CD-ROM 6-INITR
11 AUD OK
>>
The SCSI system has correctly identified the addresses and types of the two
drives on it - but still shows ??'s. (I can change the address at which
INITR appears, using the SET SCSI command. No effect that I've noticed.
Things were wierd when the CD-ROM SCSI ID and INITR were both set to 6.)
If I then do SHOW DEV, the RZ26 spins up, starts clicking and clacking, and
I see:
VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV
------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ ---
ESA0 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A
?33 UNXINT
010 00000002 041F0000
and the system seems to stop there. I can <BREAK> out back to the >>
prompt, but never get the info for
either the RZ26 or the CD drive. (With
no CD drive, I do see info (correct, as far as I can tell) for the RZ26.) I
can repeat SHOW DEV and SHOW CONFIG with the same results. If I then enter
BOOT DKA200 I see:
?02 EXT HLT
PC= 2004ACA4 PSL= 041F0000
and that's about as far as it goes. I can still <BREAK> back to the prompt.
*However*, if I shut down the VAX, Start back up, and at the first prompt,
enter boot dka200 , the CD active light goes on and flickers as though
it were being accessed, and the Rainbow shows:
-DKA200
%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map PAGEFILE.SYS on the System Disk
OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version X72T Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0
PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM)
I enter 26-JUN-2001 and see:
Configuring devices . . .
Available device DKA100: device type RZ26L
Available device DKA200: device type SONY CD-ROM
CDU-8
%BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP T7.2; the date is 26-JUN-2001 00:00:56.16
$
Up to here it matches pretty well with what the docs for the Hobbyist CD
indicate. I enter BACKUP/IMAGE DKA200:VMS072.B/SAVE DKA100: and see:
%SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA200: is offline. Mount verification in progress.
and that's all I see, at least for as long as I've had patience to watch.
The CD active light is off from then on. When my patience runs out, I hit
<Break> on the Rainbow, get a >>> prompt, and do SHOW DEV (same result as
above), <Break>, SHOW CONFIG (same as above), and then SHOW DEV and I see:
VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV
------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ ---
ESA0 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A
DKA100 A/1/0 DISK 1.05GB FX RZ26L
441T
DKA200 A/2/0 RODISK 681.57MB RM WP CD-ROM
1.9a
A/2/7
A/2/7
A/2/7
A/2/7
..HostID.. A/6 INITR
Now the SCSI system has identified the CD drive as a SONY and correctly
read data from the CD (else how did it know that it was trying to load
OpenVMS 7.2?)! Yet something is still, to quote the bard, "rotten in
Denmark". I can't get (haven't gotten?) through the install sequence any
farther than the accursed %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER.
Out of decorum, I suppose I should say WITW? (What in the World?) but
stronger language is what I have in mind.
Clues would be well appreciated.
I have not tried disassembling the SCSI drive - it seems to work OK with
the NeXT, and with Macs (PB3400, Plus). I could do that, though.
Help? In the absence of any clues, I'll probably take apart the CD300 to
see if I can spot anything obviously misjumpered, then start hunting for a
real DEC external CD drive.
- Mark
27 Jun
27 Jun
9:17 a.m.
You definately have a SCSI termination or addressing issue here.
I would, on general principles, not use addresses 1 or 7 for any
device until you know which of those two addys your interface is on.
I've forgotten what the setup terminationwise is. I know the external
scsi line needs termination, so turn it on on your cdrom. I *think*
the setup that works in mine is the internal hard disk is not terminated.
You should see all the drives when you type show dev from the console.
If you don't, fix the problem before you bother trying to boot.
Hope this helps.
-Jim
Hello,
Multiple apologies in advance: The peripherals are generally
on-topic (and I think that's where my problem is), but the primary unit
under investigation, the VAX, isn't until next year. Also, please forgive
the long post. Finally, I'm in digest mode, so I'll respond slowly unless
you cc me at mtapley(a)swri.edu .
I'm trying to load OpenVMS Hobbyist (at last!) onto a VaxStation
4000 VLC. A lot is working, but something isn't. Here's what I have:
VaxStation 4000 VLC
16 M Ram
RZ26-L (1Gig) hard drive, no jumpers on terminator block, SCSI ID 1.
S3 in up position
Rainbow 100A, running Kermit on MS-DOS 3.11b, 9600/8/n/1
Offset-snap RJ11 DEC serial console cable, from VAX console connector to
adaptor to DB25 at Rainbow COMM port
50pin M-M Centronics-type (off-brand) SCSI cable
AppleCD 300 external (caddy-load) (can you see trouble coming right here?)
SCSI ID = 2
External SCSI terminator.
The SCSI is, if I'm correctly reading what RZ26 docs I have, terminated at
the RZ26 and at the CD drive. (I know, this is not both "ends" of the
cable. The RZ-26 is within about 10 cm. of the computer end of the cable.)
I've tried the terminator-block jumper in all three positions (off, on one
pair, on the other pair) on the RZ26, same results. I've also tried with
and without the external terminator on the CD, same results.
When I turn everything else on, load the CD caddy with the DEC Hobbyist VMS
CD in place, then turn on the VAX, I see on the Rainbow (edited from the
Kermit session log, esc/other special characters dealt with harshly by my
text editor and me):
KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0
08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A
16MB
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
?? 010 2 LCG 0086
?? 001 9 NI 0172
?? 121 10 SCSI 0034
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
BeOS Powered!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
uh-oh. I'm *hoping* the LCG line means no monitor attached to the VAX
graphics board (true, also no keyboard or mouse - yet), and the NI line
means I'm not connected to a network (also true, so far). Anybody with a
4000 VLC owners' manual? The SCSI line worries me. (When I boot without the
CD drive attached, or with the CD drive turned off, it does not appear.) If
I then do SHOW CONFIG I see:
KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0
08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A
16MB
DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO
------ -------- --------------------------
1 NVR OK
2 LCG ?? 010 0086
HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.2
3 DZ OK
4 CACHE OK
5 MEM OK
16MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=0MB
6 FPU OK
7 IT OK
8 SYS OK
9 NI ?? 001 0172
10 SCSI ?? 121 0034
1-RZ26L 2-CD-ROM 6-INITR
11 AUD OK
>>
The SCSI system has correctly identified the addresses and types of the two
drives on it - but still shows ??'s. (I can change the address at which
INITR appears, using the SET SCSI command. No effect that I've noticed.
Things were wierd when the CD-ROM SCSI ID and INITR were both set to 6.)
If I then do SHOW DEV, the RZ26 spins up, starts clicking and clacking, and
I see:
VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV
------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ ---
ESA0 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A
?33 UNXINT
010 00000002 041F0000
and the system seems to stop there. I can <BREAK> out back to the >>
prompt, but never get the info for
either the RZ26 or the CD drive. (With
no CD drive, I do see info (correct, as far as I can tell) for the RZ26.) I
can repeat SHOW DEV and SHOW CONFIG with the same results. If I then enter
BOOT DKA200 I see:
?02 EXT HLT
PC= 2004ACA4 PSL= 041F0000
and that's about as far as it goes. I can still <BREAK> back to the prompt.
*However*, if I shut down the VAX, Start back up, and at the first prompt,
enter boot dka200 , the CD active light goes on and flickers as though
it were being accessed, and the Rainbow shows:
-DKA200
%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map PAGEFILE.SYS on the System Disk
OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version X72T Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0
PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM)
I enter 26-JUN-2001 and see:
Configuring devices . . .
Available device DKA100: device type RZ26L
Available device DKA200: device type SONY CD-ROM
CDU-8
%BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP T7.2; the date is 26-JUN-2001 00:00:56.16
$
Up to here it matches pretty well with what the docs for the Hobbyist CD
indicate. I enter BACKUP/IMAGE DKA200:VMS072.B/SAVE DKA100: and see:
%SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA200: is offline. Mount verification in progress.
and that's all I see, at least for as long as I've had patience to watch.
The CD active light is off from then on. When my patience runs out, I hit
<Break> on the Rainbow, get a >>> prompt, and do SHOW DEV (same result as
above), <Break>, SHOW CONFIG (same as above), and then SHOW DEV and I see:
VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV
------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ ---
ESA0 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A
DKA100 A/1/0 DISK 1.05GB FX RZ26L
441T
DKA200 A/2/0 RODISK 681.57MB RM WP CD-ROM
1.9a
A/2/7
A/2/7
A/2/7
A/2/7
..HostID.. A/6 INITR
Now the SCSI system has identified the CD drive as a SONY and correctly
read data from the CD (else how did it know that it was trying to load
OpenVMS 7.2?)! Yet something is still, to quote the bard, "rotten in
Denmark". I can't get (haven't gotten?) through the install sequence any
farther than the accursed %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER.
Out of decorum, I suppose I should say WITW? (What in the World?) but
stronger language is what I have in mind.
Clues would be well appreciated.
I have not tried disassembling the SCSI drive - it seems to work OK with
the NeXT, and with Macs (PB3400, Plus). I could do that, though.
Help? In the absence of any clues, I'll probably take apart the CD300 to
see if I can spot anything obviously misjumpered, then start hunting for a
real DEC external CD drive.
- Mark
10 a.m.
You definately have a SCSI termination or addressing
issue here.
I would, on general principles, not use addresses 1 or 7 for any
device until you know which of those two addys your interface is on.
I think the usual address of the internal hard drive is 3 and the CDROM
drive is 5.
I've forgotten what the setup terminationwise is.
I know the external
scsi line needs termination, so turn it on on your cdrom. I *think*
the setup that works in mine is the internal hard disk is not terminated.
I happen to have a VLC at my desk that isn't being used, so I opened it
up to check. The SCSI connection is motherboard->HD->external connection,
so the HD should not be terminated. If you don't have an external SCSI
device the external connector should be terminated.
Just verified, and the internal HD is NOT terminated.
You should see all the drives when you type show dev
from the console.
If you don't, fix the problem before you bother trying to boot.
Indeed. I've seen this type of problem before and I solved it by using
a different CDROM drive. The CDROM drive did work on one of my VAX systems
and all of my Alphas, but would not work with one of my other VAX systems.
I generally like to use either actual DEC drives or Plextor drives.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
9:17 a.m.
On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Tapley wrote:
Help? In the absence of any clues, I'll probably
take apart the CD300 to
see if I can spot anything obviously misjumpered, then start hunting for a
real DEC external CD drive.
Plextors are said to work good, although I sometimes have trouble with them,
too. The key parameter is the block size of the drive. To work on VAXen (and
many other workstations) as boot drives, they must use a block size of 512
bytes. CDROM drives usually have 2048 bytes as default blocksize, and this is
incompatible with most boot monitors. Older Toshiba drives had to be
modified on their PCB to support 512 bytes block size. Plextors, Sony's
and possibly others have a jumber (labeled BLK or similar) which can be
used to switch the block size to 512 bytes.
But even with the correct blocksize, some CDROMs work and some others don't,
so you're best off with a drive which is labeled by the same workstation
vendor. Older RS/6000's are known to be especially picky with respect to
their boot CDROMs. I had a hell of a time trying to install AIX on my RS/6000
Model 320 and I had to resort to an original IBM drive to be successful.
If you have a spare external SCSI harddisk, you can make a blockwise copy of
the CD to the disk (using dd under unix) and boot from that. Hard disks
(almost always) have a block size of 512 bytes and VMS installs just fine from
a hard drive with the image of a VMS installation CD on it.
Good luck,
Hans
--
finger hans(a)huebner.org for details
4:05 p.m.
Hans H?bner skrev:
If you have a spare external SCSI harddisk, you can
make a blockwise copy of
the CD to the disk (using dd under unix) and boot from that. Hard disks
(almost always) have a block size of 512 bytes and VMS installs just fine
from a hard drive with the image of a VMS installation CD on it.
Ooh, that reminds me of my TK50 troubles (Getting Ultrix off TK50s and onto a
DECstation with only a VAX with a TK50 drive and NetBSD). Would a dd from such
a cartridge onto a HD work? I'm generally ignorant about TK50s and how they
work. They're bootable tapes, aren't they?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
11:14 a.m.
At 12:29 PM 6/27/01 -0500, Mark Tapley wrote:
I'm trying to load OpenVMS Hobbyist (at
last!) onto a VaxStation
4000 VLC. A lot is working, but something isn't. Here's what I have:
We're having some fun now, eh?
VaxStation 4000 VLC
16 M Ram
RZ26-L (1Gig) hard drive, no jumpers on terminator block, SCSI ID 1.
S3 in up position
My favorite little VAX at the moment.
Rainbow 100A, running Kermit on MS-DOS 3.11b,
9600/8/n/1
Offset-snap RJ11 DEC serial console cable, from VAX console connector to
adaptor to DB25 at Rainbow COMM port
50pin M-M Centronics-type (off-brand) SCSI cable
AppleCD 300 external (caddy-load) (can you see trouble coming right here?)
SCSI ID = 2
External SCSI terminator.
Don't think the AppleCD will work some of the 300's were Toshibas and they
should work but most were Sony if IIRC and they definitely wouldn't work.
The SCSI is, if I'm correctly reading what RZ26
docs I have, terminated at
the RZ26 and at the CD drive. (I know, this is not both "ends" of the
cable. The RZ-26 is within about 10 cm. of the computer end of the cable.)
I've tried the terminator-block jumper in all three positions (off, on one
pair, on the other pair) on the RZ26, same results. I've also tried with
and without the external terminator on the CD, same results.
Should be: RZ26 not terminated, SCSI to CD-ROM, CD-ROM terminated.
If you do a SHOW DEV the ../HostID A/6 will indicate that the VLC has its
host adapter set to SCSI ID 6.
When I turn everything else on, load the CD caddy with
the DEC Hobbyist VMS
CD in place, then turn on the VAX, I see on the Rainbow (edited from the
Kermit session log, esc/other special characters dealt with harshly by my
text editor and me):
KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0
08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A
16MB
|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
?? 010 2 LCG 0086
?? 001 9 NI 0172
?? 121 10 SCSI 0034
Possible, but I've not seen a fatal 86 error on my VLCs. Did you set switch
S3 (on the side with the mouse/keyboard connectors and between them) to the
'up' position to tell it you were going to run headless?
>>
uh-oh. I'm *hoping* the LCG line means no monitor attached to the VAX
graphics board (true, also no keyboard or mouse - yet), and the NI line
means I'm not connected to a network (also true, so far).
Absolutely.
Anybody with a
4000 VLC owners' manual?
Yup, its open on my lap right now.
The SCSI line worries me. (When I boot without the
CD drive attached, or with the CD drive turned off, it does not appear.) If
I then do SHOW CONFIG I see:
[elided, but note that you have the high-res 8 plane color board (nice) and
that the internal SCSI address is 6 on the VLC, and your firmware is
slightly down rev (4.0 vs 4.3)]
The SCSI system has correctly identified the addresses
and types of the two
drives on it - but still shows ??'s. (I can change the address at which
INITR appears, using the SET SCSI command. No effect that I've noticed.
Don't bother changing the internal SCSI address, leave it at 6 it will be
more standard that way.
*However*, if I shut down the VAX, Start back up, and
at the first prompt,
enter boot dka200 , the CD active light goes on and flickers as though
it were being accessed, and the Rainbow shows:
-DKA200
%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
[...]
%SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA200: is offline. Mount verification in
progress.
As in, we're fscked toto. What's happening (I think) is that your CD300 is
telling the VLC things it doesn't want to hear (like extended sense data)
and the VLC is going about trying to interpret it and failing. If you open
your AppleCD and can strap it for 512 byte sectors (force 512 byte reads)
it might help, but I'm guessing you're in the market for a different drive.
Out of decorum, I suppose I should say WITW? (What in
the World?) but
stronger language is what I have in mind.
been there done that :-)
Help? In the absence of any clues, I'll probably
take apart the CD300 to
see if I can spot anything obviously misjumpered, then start hunting for a
real DEC external CD drive.
You want to change to 512 byte sectors. The AppleCD _might_ be doing 544
instead of 512. A DEC CD-ROM drive will help a lot.
--Chuck
8428
days inactive
8428
days old
5 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
dittman＠dittman.net -
hans＠vaxbusters.org -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
mtapley＠swri.edu -
optimus＠canit.se