12 Apr
2003
12 Apr
'03
6:55 p.m.
Hi All
I have a newbie question <collective groan from list>
I don't have much experience with HH type drives and recently unearthed
a Wyse Technologies machine at the local refuse recycling centre (it's
a shop rather than me wading though a landfill site - I'm not that
desperate).
Inside this machine (stated built in 1986) were two HH type 5.25" hard
drives (one a Segate ST-251 the other not branded but built 1989).
On boot up I get:
Pheonix 80386 ROM BIOS version 3.53
(c) 1985, 1986 Pheonix Technologies Ltd
640K Base 1408K Extended Memory
Hard Disk Failure
I have booted the system using a floppy and one drive (the unbranded
one) is partially readable.
It is a 41Mb drive split into two partitions (primary & extended) -
FAT16 system
It seems to have been installed with DRDOS.
Using my later versions of DOS on floppy I cannot get the drive to
respond to any standard commands (I always get a 'Sector not found'
error).
Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked
and now physically damaged?
I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive
characteristics... are they all dead?
Thanks in advance
Alan
12 Apr
12 Apr
7:48 p.m.
On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote:
Hi All
I have a newbie question <collective groan from list>
I don't have much experience with HH type drives and recently unearthed
a Wyse Technologies machine at the local refuse recycling centre (it's
a shop rather than me wading though a landfill site - I'm not that
desperate).
Inside this machine (stated built in 1986) were two HH type 5.25" hard
drives (one a Segate ST-251 the other not branded but built 1989).
On boot up I get:
Pheonix 80386 ROM BIOS version 3.53
(c) 1985, 1986 Pheonix Technologies Ltd
640K Base 1408K Extended Memory
Hard Disk Failure
I have booted the system using a floppy and one drive (the unbranded
one) is partially readable.
It is a 41Mb drive split into two partitions (primary & extended) -
FAT16 system
It seems to have been installed with DRDOS.
Using my later versions of DOS on floppy I cannot get the drive to
respond to any standard commands (I always get a 'Sector not found'
error).
Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked
and now physically damaged?
I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive
characteristics... are they all dead?
Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the
drives? Does the clock/calendar work properly? If not, the
battery may be dead and settings incorrect.
- don
Thanks in advance
Alan
8:51 p.m.
On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 16:45 Pacific/Auckland, Don Maslin wrote:
On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote:
The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I
can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.
A small victory: Through persistence I can now read the data in the
extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads
sometimes not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously
wants to be left alone...
Not to be outdone I will try Spinrite.
Another question - is it worth trying to save? Has anyone got any
information on Wyse Technologies machines?
The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector
stating it was a 386 server???
Thanks
Alan
Can anything be done to revive these disks or
were they left unparked
and now physically damaged?
I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive
characteristics... are they all dead?
Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the
drives? Does the clock/calendar work properly? If not, the
battery may be dead and settings incorrect.
- don
9:04 p.m.
Alan Greenstreet wrote:
The
BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I
can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.
What kind of HD controller is being used, 8 bit or 16 bit? I have seen
XT controllers used in AT machines, and the bios hd settings are then
set at none.
13 Apr
13 Apr
12:54 a.m.
I've used a number of Wyse 286 & 386 machines in the past (as
servers). Early machines did not have a BIOS configuration program built
in - you had to boot a setup floppy. (I *might* still have one kicking
about somewhere in the old discs at the office, if you need it; might also
have some manuals.) If the battery went, then you need to set it up again.
They mostly used fixed disc parameters, from which you selected the one
closest to your drive, and with no "user definable" mode. I also had a lot
of disc failures in those days. (I remember one particularly memorable day
trying to read that one last sector off a dead disc on an old machine, in
desperation dropping the machine 3", upside down, timed exactly right - and
it read it!)
Discs were usually st306? Three cables from a controller to the discs - one
shared between drives, one each per drive. Floppy drives run from same
controller. Seperate cards for Parallel+Serial (or parallel + 2 serial)
video, etc.
Has yours got that natty (but impractical) LCD display on the front?
regards
Rob.
At 17:49 13/04/2003 +1200, you wrote:
On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 16:45 Pacific/Auckland, Don
Maslin wrote:
On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote:
The BIOS reads date 1980 so
the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I can
read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.
A small victory: Through persistence I can now read the data in the
extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads sometimes
not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously wants to be
left alone...
Not to be outdone I will try Spinrite.
Another question - is it worth trying to save? Has anyone got any
information on Wyse Technologies machines?
The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector stating
it was a 386 server???
Thanks
Alan Can anything be done to revive these disks or were
they left unparked
and now physically damaged?
I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive
characteristics... are they all dead?
Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the
drives? Does the clock/calendar work properly? If not, the
battery may be dead and settings incorrect.
- don
1:49 p.m.
On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 21:50 Pacific/Auckland, Rob O'Donnell wrote:
I've used a number of Wyse 286 & 386 machines
in the past (as
servers). Early machines did not have a BIOS configuration program
built in - you had to boot a setup floppy. (I *might* still have one
kicking about somewhere in the old discs at the office, if you need
it; might also have some manuals.) If the battery went, then you need
to set it up again.
This machine has no BIOS that I can interrogate (I got the date from
running scandisk from a later version of MSDOS) - On boot-up (using the
floppy) it is asking for a Setup Disk (this could be what you mention
above). I don't have this disk so if you can find it I'd like a copy...
They mostly used fixed disc parameters, from which you selected the
one closest to your drive, and with no "user definable" mode. I also
had a lot of disc failures in those days. (I remember one
particularly memorable day trying to read that one last sector off a
dead disc on an old machine, in desperation dropping the machine 3",
upside down, timed exactly right - and it read it!)
Ouch!
Discs were usually st306? Three cables from a controller to the discs
- one shared between drives, one each per drive. Floppy drives run
from same controller. Seperate cards for Parallel+Serial (or parallel
+ 2 serial) video, etc.
Mine has an st-251-1 and an unbranded model installed and there appears
to be one controller for both the hard drives and the floppy disks. It
also has a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy drives installed. Internally the
machine is in good condition but from the outside it looks as if it has
had a hard life. I was trying to get it up and running to use it as a
test bed for other MFM controlled disks (as it has two HD bays and 3 FD
bays).
Has yours got that natty (but impractical) LCD display on the front?
Yes! What was that for? It doesn't appear to be working at the moment
(it does power up) - I am assuming that once the Setup disk is run this
might come back to life?
regards
Rob.
Thanks for the info
Alan
14 Apr
14 Apr
12:29 p.m.
New subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives
At 10:50 14/04/2003 +1200, Alan Greenstreet wrote:
As far as I remember, it showed the stuff you'd expect to see as LEDs on a
PC - turbo status, flashing "C" for hard drive access, etc. I /think/ you
could get it to show the time, too..
Wyse are still going - http://www.wyse.com. But they seem to concentrate
on WinTerms now - even the "discontinued products" pages has newer stuff on
them than I ever used of theirs!
I have some Wyse serial terminals (WY-120 I think) in a box buried
somewhere, plus a (XT style) keyboard off a 286 if anybody wants them.
Regards
Rob
This machine has no BIOS that I can interrogate (I got
the date from
running scandisk from a later version of MSDOS) - On boot-up (using the
floppy) it is asking for a Setup Disk (this could be what you mention
above). I don't have this disk so if you can find it I'd like a copy...
OK, I had a rummage around and found a box of discs at the bottom of a
filing cabinet! Wyse setup discs, and a DOS tools disc, along with other
miscellaneous stuff.. All on 5.25". I've dragged them home, along with a
suitable drive, and as soon as I can fit it into a PC I'll read the discs
and post the relevant files up somewhere.
Mine has an st-251-1 and an unbranded model installed
and there appears to
be one controller for both the hard drives and the floppy disks. It also
has a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy drives installed. Internally the machine is
in good condition but from the outside it looks as if it has had a hard
life. I was trying to get it up and running to use it as a test bed for
other MFM controlled disks (as it has two HD bays and 3 FD bays).
they were pretty solid machines ... weighed a ton, too...
Has yours got
that natty (but impractical) LCD display on the front?
Yes! What was that for? It doesn't appear to be working at the moment (it
does power up) - I am assuming that once the Setup disk is run this might
come back to life?
16 Apr
16 Apr
12:50 a.m.
New subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives
On Tuesday, Apr 15, 2003, at 09:26 Pacific/Auckland, Rob O'Donnell
wrote:
OK, I had a rummage around and found a box of discs at
the bottom of a
filing cabinet! Wyse setup discs, and a DOS tools disc, along with
other miscellaneous stuff.. All on 5.25". I've dragged them home,
along with a suitable drive, and as soon as I can fit it into a PC
I'll read the discs and post the relevant files up somewhere.
Thanks!
they were pretty solid machines ... weighed a ton,
too...
You bet, feels like they're lead lined
Thanks again
Alan
12:53 a.m.
New subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives
At 22:26 14/04/2003 +0100, Rob O'Donnell wrote:
OK, I had a rummage around and found a box of discs at
the bottom of a
filing cabinet! Wyse setup discs, and a DOS tools disc, along with other
miscellaneous stuff.. All on 5.25". I've dragged them home, along with a
suitable drive, and as soon as I can fit it into a PC I'll read the discs
and post the relevant files up somewhere.
Discs are up at http://www.irrelevant.com/cc/
Wyse Setup, Kaypro Setup, Some driver discs for each. DOS 3.30.
Also an Apricot boot disc. See the .txt file on each for a directory.
They are straight dd images, if you are using dos/windoze, you'll need to
use rawrite.exe or fdimage.exe (google for them) to copy these back to a
floppy.
Regards
Rob.
1:04 a.m.
New subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives
At 10:48 16/04/2003 +0100, Rob O'Donnell wrote:
Discs are up at http://www.irrelevant.com/cc/
hmm, it truncates the list, so for the record:-
AT + Kaypro Setup
AT + Kaypro Setup.txt
Apricot 286-386 release 1 system disk
Apricot 286-386 release 1 system disk.txt [*]
DOS3.3+Setup for Wyse.txt
Kaypro Keyboard Driver 16bit + Video Emulaton SW
Kaypro Keyboard Driver 16bt + Keyboard Emulation SW.txt [*]
Kaypro Speedstor
Kaypro Speedstor.txt
Wyse Enhanced MS-DOS 3.3 System Diskette 1.00
Wyse Enhanced MS-DOS 3.3 System Diskette 1.00.txt [*]
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*]
Wyse Setup
Wyse Setup-fdiag
Wyse Setup-fdiag.txt
Wyse Setup.txt
at setup
at setup.txt
Forgot to mention - files are labeled as the discs were - I think "AT
setup" means "Wyse AT", as I had another disc labeled such with the same
files on it, but with read errors. Certainly Wyse were the main machines
we used at the time, so it's unlikely to be anything else. Those marked
[*] are actual original discs - others are copies or contain just odd files.
Regards
Rob.
4:36 a.m.
New subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives
At 11:00 AM 4/16/03 +0100, you wrote:
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility
Diskette 1.01
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*]
Are these for the Wyse card that drives the WY-800 monitor?
I've got one of these monitors somewhere, but have never been able to get
anything other than standard 80x25 DOS text mode out of it. Very nice in
text mode, larger character cell than VGA, nice characters, long
persistance white phoshor CRT. Without drivers it emulates CGA, but I'm
pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right
software/drivers.
6:28 a.m.
New subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives
At 23:35 16/04/2003 +1100, Dr. Ido wrote:
At 11:00 AM 4/16/03 +0100, you wrote:
To be honest, I don't know!
Apart from the above description, the label has a part code of 730288-01,
(C)Wyse Technology, Inc. 1989. No other info I am afraid..
Files on there include "mpatest.exe" so I suspect if you run that against
your card it might indicate something..
regards
Rob,
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility
Diskette 1.01
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*]
Are these for the Wyse card that drives the WY-800 monitor?
I've got one of these monitors somewhere, but have never been able to get
anything other than standard 80x25 DOS text mode out of it. Very nice in
text mode, larger character cell than VGA, nice characters, long
persistance white phoshor CRT. Without drivers it emulates CGA, but I'm
pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right
software/drivers. 
8:57 a.m.
New subject: Wyse 386, was: Re: HH drives
On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Dr. Ido wrote:
It was also sold as the Amdek 1280. Try to find a newer version of the
drivers (I doubt that I can find mine). There were drivers available
through Windoze 3.10, as well as drivers for Xerox Ventura, etc. The 1280
x 800 mode was one of the best of its time.
One common problem was a gradual loss of brightness. There was another
brightness control inside the case that couldbe cranked up to get another
year or so before it became too dim to use.
One other common problem was idiots plugging it into a EGA, CGA, or MDA
board (or plugging a regular monitor into its special board).
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
Wyse Monochrome
Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*]
Are these
for the Wyse card that drives the WY-800 monitor?
I've got one of these monitors somewhere, but have never been able to get
anything other than standard 80x25 DOS text mode out of it. Very nice in
text mode, larger character cell than VGA, nice characters, long
persistance white phoshor CRT. Without drivers it emulates CGA, but I'm
pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right
software/drivers.
13 Apr
13 Apr
8:33 p.m.
On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote:
On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 16:45 Pacific/Auckland,
Don Maslin wrote:
I fear that I cannot shed any light on the subject other than I
have heard of them. Basically a PC clone, I'd guess.
- don
On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote:
The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I
can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.
A small victory: Through persistence I can now read the data in the
extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads
sometimes not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously
wants to be left alone...
Not to be outdone I will try Spinrite.
Another question - is it worth trying to save? Has anyone got any
information on Wyse Technologies machines? Can anything be done to revive these disks or
were they left unparked
and now physically damaged?
I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive
characteristics... are they all dead?
Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the
drives? Does the clock/calendar work properly? If not, the
battery may be dead and settings incorrect.
- don
The google thing didn't bring up much other than
another collector
stating it was a 386 server???
Thanks
Alan
14 Apr
14 Apr
9:02 a.m.
IIRC, the command "G=c800:5" from witin the dos 'Debug utility will
often launch a low-level format utility from the host adapter's roms....
Regards,
Jeff
Alan Greenstreet wrote:
On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 16:45 Pacific/Auckland, Don Maslin wrote:
On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Alan Greenstreet wrote:
The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I
can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.
A small victory: Through persistence I can now read the data in the
extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads
sometimes not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously
wants to be left alone...
Not to be outdone I will try Spinrite.
Another question - is it worth trying to save? Has anyone got any
information on Wyse Technologies machines?
The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector
stating it was a 386 server???
Thanks
Alan Can anything be done to revive these disks or
were they left unparked
and now physically damaged?
I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive
characteristics... are they all dead?
Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the
drives? Does the clock/calendar work properly? If not, the
battery may be dead and settings incorrect.
- don
12 Apr
12 Apr
8:01 p.m.
Check the BIOS settings first. I have a program called spinrite that I
remember using to recover disks. I can't remember everything it can do,
but I remember that it saved a lot of hard drives for me... let me know
off line if you would like a copy and I can email it to you.
-Bryan
Using my later versions of DOS on floppy I cannot get the drive to
respond to any standard commands (I always get a 'Sector not found'
error).
Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked
and now physically damaged?
8:08 p.m.
Alan Greenstreet wrote:
On boot up I get:
Pheonix 80386 ROM BIOS version 3.53
(c) 1985, 1986 Pheonix Technologies Ltd
640K Base 1408K Extended Memory
Hard Disk Failure
Have you checked the CMOS settings for the correct HD parameters? The
"sector not found" error sounds like the HD is being recognized, and it
is possible that a low level format followed by a high level format
might solve the problems. *My* preference in such cases is to use
Spinrite as it can reformat the drive without losing data ... assuming
the original data is still accessible.
13 Apr
13 Apr
12:52 p.m.
I have had a number of requests for this so I thought it would be
easiest to put it up on a web page for anyone interested. If you are
worried about the copyright, send your money to the address provided in
the software! ;-)
Spinrite is available for download at http://members.cox.net/oldcomp2/
save this file to a bootable floppy and run it from the command prompt.
It has been at least 10-12 years since I have used it, so I can't
remember the details. Just read through the menus to see what it can do.
Good luck!
This link will be available for at least 7 days, but not much longer.
Download it now if you think you will ever need it!
-Bryan
3:24 p.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
Pirating is not something that should be condoned on this list. SpinRite
is NOT shareware which is what you are suggesting by your comment.
Bryan Blackburn wrote:
I have had a number of requests for this so I thought it would be
easiest to put it up on a web page for anyone interested. If you are
worried about the copyright, send your money to the address provided in
the software! ;-)
Spinrite is available for download at http://members.cox.net/oldcomp2/
save this file to a bootable floppy and run it from the command prompt.
It has been at least 10-12 years since I have used it, so I can't
remember the details. Just read through the menus to see what it can do.
Good luck!
This link will be available for at least 7 days, but not much longer.
Download it now if you think you will ever need it!
-Bryan
6:47 p.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
I'm not suggesting it is! What I am subtly suggesting, is that if you think the
company is still in business, or would still recognize the product name, send them a
check. More power to you! I stopped using the software when the hardware it was
specifically designed to work with became obsolete, well over a decade ago. (Probably
about a year or two after the company went out of business.)
-Bryan
Spinrite is NOT shareware which is what you are
suggesting by your comment.
6:58 p.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
Check grc.com for information on SpinRite 5......
It appears that Gibson Research is back...
Bryan Blackburn wrote:
I'm not suggesting it is! What I am subtly
suggesting, is that if you
think the company is still in business, or would still recognize the
product name, send them a check. More power to you! I stopped using the
software when the hardware it was specifically designed to work with
became obsolete, well over a decade ago. (Probably about a year or two
after the company went out of business.)
-Bryan
> Spinrite is NOT shareware which is what you are suggesting by your
> comment.
8:20 p.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
Gibson Research never went away :)
At 11:54 PM 4/13/03 -0400, you wrote:
Check grc.com for information on SpinRite 5......
It appears that Gibson Research is back...
Bryan Blackburn wrote:
>I'm not suggesting it is! What I am subtly suggesting, is that if you
>think the company is still in business, or would still recognize the
>product name, send them a check. More power to you! I stopped using the
>software when the hardware it was specifically designed to work with
>became obsolete, well over a decade ago. (Probably about a year or two
>after the company went out of business.)
>-Bryan
>
>>Spinrite is NOT shareware which is what you are suggesting by your comment.
14 Apr
14 Apr
3:19 a.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
I don't think it ever went away. I've been visiting his site for years to
catch up on the latest (and UNBIASED) info on firewalls, spyware, etc. I use his routinely
LeakTest to test my firewall. Even if you're not intersted in Spinrite, take a look
at his site. There's lots of good info on there.
Joe
At 11:54 PM 4/13/03 -0400, you wrote:
+>Check grc.com for information on SpinRite 5......
It appears that Gibson Research is back...
13 Apr
13 Apr
11:50 p.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone
forever come up on the list. For the most part almost
all old computer collectors are using programs illegally.
Spinrite made their money off this version back when
MFM and RLL drives were still current. They no longer
provide it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD. I have no
problem with some small programmer still supplying AND
supporting a vintage program that is of use but there are
a thousand others sitting on a program which they won't
put into public domain due to not giving a shit about the
end user.
Why is there not an similar outcry about companies like
Lotus or Borland that put out products that were obsoleted
because of the Y2K only 5 years after they were issued.
They knew damn well it was coming. I won't even touch
on the liscensing aspect that the software giants use to
avoid responsability for crap they issue.
Is it any wonder that so many are cynical about "piracy"
The days of "buttonware" and voluntary payment are long
past precisely because of these pigs. I will always be fair
to the small programmers but for most of the large
companies it's tit for tat. Apple and a few others do the
decent thing but they are the exceptions not the rule.
Lawrence
On 13 Apr 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote:
Pirating is not something that should be condoned on
this
list. SpinRite is NOT shareware which is what you are
suggesting by your comment.
Bryan Blackburn wrote:
>
> I have had a number of requests for this so I thought it
> would be easiest to put it up on a web page for anyone
> interested. If you are worried about the copyright, send
> your money to the address provided in the software! ;-)
>
> Spinrite is available for download at
> http://members.cox.net/oldcomp2/ save this file to a
> bootable floppy and run it from the command prompt. It has
> been at least 10-12 years since I have used it, so I can't
> remember the details. Just read through the menus to see
> what it can do. Good luck!
>
> This link will be available for at least 7 days, but not
> much longer. Download it now if you think you will ever
> need it!
>
> -Bryan
lgwalker@ mts.net
14 Apr
14 Apr
7:10 a.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
Lawrence Walker wrote:
Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone
forever come up on the list. For the most part almost
all old computer collectors are using programs illegally.
Spinrite made their money off this version back when
MFM and RLL drives were still current. They no longer
provide it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD.
Whoa boy, I *will* speak up when this listserver starts publicly doing
things that are not in the best interests of the classic computer
community. We are talking about software that is still a viable
commercial product (although granted, it appears to be an older
version.) Trying to trash the reputation of this hobby is not something
that I will be a part of, and I *will* say something.
Before you start saying they (GRC) no longer provides it, where did you
come up with that information??? http://grc.com/default.htm still has
an announcement prominently offering SpinRite in their top banner.
8:12 a.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
Rumor has it that Marvin Johnston may have mentioned these words:
Lawrence Walker wrote:
Here's what the owners manual for SpinRite 5.0 says:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
System Requirements
SpinRite operates with 100% IBM-compatible PC, XT, AT, PS/1 and
PS/2 personal computer systems equipped with at least one diskette
drive, 350K of free RAM, Monochrome, EGA or VGA display adapter
(not CGA) and DOS version 2.1 or later.
NOTE: SpinRite operates with most hard and floppy disk data storage
devices and technologies. However, some storage devices are inherently
different in design from the hard drives found in standard IBMcompatible
systems. As a result, SpinRite cannot operate upon some
hardware storage devices. For specific information, please see the
"Known Incompatibilities" appendix.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Now, if one were to have some older MFM/RLL hardware to test the latest
version on, one would be able to let us know _if_ it still works. If not,
then i'd say "sharing" _older_ versions to support older hardware
wouldn't
be out-of-line, but if it does support it, then one should definately give
the company your $$$...
Just my take, here's a grain of salt with it...
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
zmerch(a)30below.com
What do you do when Life gives you lemons,
and you don't *like* lemonade?????????????
Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone
forever come up on the list. For the most part almost
all old computer collectors are using programs illegally.
Spinrite made their money off this version back when
MFM and RLL drives were still current. They no longer
provide it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD.
Whoa boy, I *will* speak up when this listserver starts publicly doing
things that are not in the best interests of the classic computer
community. We are talking about software that is still a viable
commercial product (although granted, it appears to be an older
version.) Trying to trash the reputation of this hobby is not something
that I will be a part of, and I *will* say something.
Before you start saying they (GRC) no longer provides it, where did you
come up with that information??? http://grc.com/default.htm still has
an announcement prominently offering SpinRite in their top banner. 
9:29 a.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Roger Merchberger wrote:
Now, if one were to have some older MFM/RLL hardware
to test the latest
version on, one would be able to let us know _if_ it still works. If not,
then i'd say "sharing" _older_ versions to support older hardware
wouldn't
be out-of-line, but if it does support it, then one should definately give
the company your $$$...
Why doesn't someone end the debate and just contact GRC to see if they
will release the older versions into the public domain?
If I didn't already have a bazillion jillion things going right now I'd do
it myself.
GIBSON RESEARCH CORPORATION
27071 Cabot Road, Suite 105
Laguna Hills, CA 92653
Sales: 800-736-0637
Sales: 949-348-7100
Fax: 949-348-7110
Sales: sales(a)grc.com
Offices: offices(a)grc.com
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
10:01 a.m.
New subject: Spinrite 5 - WAS ->Re: Piracy was Re: HH drives
At 01:07 PM 4/14/03 -0400, you wrote:
-SNIP-
Now, if one were to have some older MFM/RLL hardware to test the latest
version on, one would be able to let us know _if_ it still works. If not,
then i'd say "sharing" _older_ versions to support older hardware
wouldn't
be out-of-line, but if it does support it, then one should definately give
the company your $$$...
I've used spinrite 5 on MFM, RLL, IDE and SCSI drives...
11:34 a.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
Yup, version 5 and it won't do MFM and RLL HDs. Can
any justification be made for any restrictions on the
dissemnation of old software such as this which in no way
cuts into the sales of his newest product ?
This is an on-going debate among classic computer
collectors and some formalistic posture as to the useage
of outmoded software is ludicrous. Most of the old
hardware we attempt to get up and running would be
consigned to landfills if we religeously held to that
position. This is not about stealing the bread from some
hardworking programmers table but should be about his
responsibility to the community that enabled him to
continue his type of work. If it's no longer a viable product
and is not supported, all deals are off. This would not
justify someone coming along and marketing his product.
That's a different ball of wax.
I just checked my version of Spinrite 1.2a. Under
liscensing it says:
o Consultant License --
Consultants who wish to repair and revitalize systems
belonging to others may do so by executing our
CONSULTING USE LICENSING AGREEMENT
and paying a $10 fee each time SpinRite is used on
another system.
SpinRite must not, of course, be installed onto those
drives.
I hope those taking this position have religeously
submitted the $10 whenever they've used it on someone
elses machine.
Lawrence
On 14 Apr 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote:
Lawrence Walker wrote:
lgwalker@ mts.net
Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone
forever come up on the list. For the most part almost all
old computer collectors are using programs illegally.
Spinrite made their money off this version back when MFM
and RLL drives were still current. They no longer provide
it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD.
Whoa boy, I *will* speak up when this listserver starts
publicly doing things that are not in the best interests of
the classic computer community. We are talking about
software that is still a viable commercial product (although
granted, it appears to be an older version.) Trying to trash
the reputation of this hobby is not something that I will be
a part of, and I *will* say something.
Before you start saying they (GRC) no longer provides it,
where did you come up with that information???
http://grc.com/default.htm still has an announcement
prominently offering SpinRite in their top banner.
16 Apr
16 Apr
8:22 p.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
I agree wholeheartedly. If I'd not bought a set of original tapes for
my Data General mini, I'd have a lump of recycleable metal instead of a
functioning, neato computer.
Now, I bought the tapes fair and sqare, but from a licensing standpoint
they should have been either returned to DG or destroyed. They were
really hard to find as a large percentage of DG customers complied with
the license. The US Forest Service for instance destroyed all of thier
media, documentation, etcetera. They also blanked the drives on the
machines they sold to scrappers.
So far as I know, I'm the only private person on the planet with a full
install set for AOS/VS II v3.0 and TCP/IP. Those three tapes are golden.
I also have several versions of thier ades/adex diagnostic software
which contains microcode for ALL data general MV (Eagle) machines.
These tapes are all completely illegal for me to own. Until a couple of
years ago the OS and tcpip were available from DG, but they wanted
$1300.00 for them. I told DG where to stick it and instead dropped
$300.00 on a 9track, controller, and the golden tapes.
I doubt any court in the world would convict me for this. Especially in
light of DG's aquisition by EMC about a year after I got the machine up
and running.
I was totally floored that Digital had thier hobbyist license for VMS
and layered products. I signed up right away! Data General might still
be making computers if they weren't such tightasses.
Regards,
Jeff
Lawrence Walker wrote:
Yup, version 5 and it won't do MFM and RLL HDs. Can
any justification be made for any restrictions on the
dissemnation of old software such as this which in no way
cuts into the sales of his newest product ?
This is an on-going debate among classic computer
collectors and some formalistic posture as to the useage
of outmoded software is ludicrous. Most of the old
hardware we attempt to get up and running would be
consigned to landfills if we religeously held to that
position. This is not about stealing the bread from some
hardworking programmers table but should be about his
responsibility to the community that enabled him to
continue his type of work. If it's no longer a viable product
and is not supported, all deals are off. This would not
justify someone coming along and marketing his product.
That's a different ball of wax.
I just checked my version of Spinrite 1.2a. Under
liscensing it says:
o Consultant License --
Consultants who wish to repair and revitalize systems
belonging to others may do so by executing our
CONSULTING USE LICENSING AGREEMENT
and paying a $10 fee each time SpinRite is used on
another system.
SpinRite must not, of course, be installed onto those
drives.
I hope those taking this position have religeously
submitted the $10 whenever they've used it on someone
elses machine.
Lawrence
9:06 p.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
G'day Jeff -
Be aware that TLC Corporation in Uxbridge MA has the distribution rights
to -all- of the DG 32-bit MV software and still actively charges for use of
all DG (now EMC) software products and TLC must still pay royalties to EMC.
I am trying to work on a hobbyist along with more attractive "commercial
use" license arrangement for the 32-bit (and 16-bit) software, but all of it
is still covered by license requirements from TLC to EMC.
Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: "SYSTEM MANAGER [VAX]" <technoid(a)30below.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: Piracy was Re: HH drives
I agree wholeheartedly. If I'd not bought a set
of original tapes for
my Data General mini, I'd have a lump of recycleable metal instead of a
functioning, neato computer.
Now, I bought the tapes fair and sqare, but from a licensing standpoint
they should have been either returned to DG or destroyed. They were
really hard to find as a large percentage of DG customers complied with
the license. The US Forest Service for instance destroyed all of thier
media, documentation, etcetera. They also blanked the drives on the
machines they sold to scrappers.
So far as I know, I'm the only private person on the planet with a full
install set for AOS/VS II v3.0 and TCP/IP. Those three tapes are golden.
I also have several versions of thier ades/adex diagnostic software
which contains microcode for ALL data general MV (Eagle) machines.
These tapes are all completely illegal for me to own. Until a couple of
years ago the OS and tcpip were available from DG, but they wanted
$1300.00 for them. I told DG where to stick it and instead dropped
$300.00 on a 9track, controller, and the golden tapes.
I doubt any court in the world would convict me for this. Especially in
light of DG's aquisition by EMC about a year after I got the machine up
and running.
I was totally floored that Digital had thier hobbyist license for VMS
and layered products. I signed up right away! Data General might still
be making computers if they weren't such tightasses.
Regards,
Jeff
Lawrence Walker wrote:
>
> Yup, version 5 and it won't do MFM and RLL HDs. Can
> any justification be made for any restrictions on the
> dissemnation of old software such as this which in no way
> cuts into the sales of his newest product ?
> This is an on-going debate among classic computer
> collectors and some formalistic posture as to the useage
> of outmoded software is ludicrous. Most of the old
> hardware we attempt to get up and running would be
> consigned to landfills if we religeously held to that
> position. This is not about stealing the bread from some
> hardworking programmers table but should be about his
> responsibility to the community that enabled him to
> continue his type of work. If it's no longer a viable product
> and is not supported, all deals are off. This would not
> justify someone coming along and marketing his product.
> That's a different ball of wax.
>
> I just checked my version of Spinrite 1.2a. Under
> liscensing it says:
>
> o Consultant License --
> Consultants who wish to repair and revitalize systems
> belonging to others may do so by executing our
> CONSULTING USE LICENSING AGREEMENT
> and paying a $10 fee each time SpinRite is used on
> another system.
> SpinRite must not, of course, be installed onto those
> drives.
>
> I hope those taking this position have religeously
> submitted the $10 whenever they've used it on someone
> elses machine.
>
> Lawrence
15 Apr
15 Apr
2:39 p.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
On Mon, 2003-03-10 at 16:46, Lawrence Walker wrote:
Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone
forever come up on the list. For the most part almost
all old computer collectors are using programs illegally.
<snip>
a thousand others sitting on a program which they
won't
put into public domain due to not giving a shit about the
end user.
I usually take the extremely legalistic point of view to highlight to
people that the current system of copyright is broken, and only getting
more so to protect the interests of a few.
Whenever I catch somebody I know doing something that is technically
illegal I point out this fact most strenuous and let them know they can
get a criminal records, do jail time and receive millions in fines if
somebody takes offense at what they are doing. I will then suggest that
if they think this is wrong they should contact their representative and
suggest things be changed.
Most shrug, figure I'm a kook (probably right) and don't do a damn thing
... this is why things won't change.
Why is there not an similar outcry about companies
like
Lotus or Borland that put out products that were obsoleted
<snip>
companies it's tit for tat. Apple and a few others
do the
decent thing but they are the exceptions not the rule.
Borland has released some of their old dos compilers on their community
site, so I would not knock them too much. They sold off the rights to
many of their applications so I would not expect them to release them to
the public.
I'm hoping that the shareware type idea will come back with the rise of
open-source software creating new niches, and the big software companies
charging for support & updates. You don't want support, the software is
free, but if you want somebody to answer questions, you need to pay the
author something.
Regards,
Paul
3:58 p.m.
New subject: Piracy was Re: HH drives
if somebody takes offense at what they are doing.
and let them know they can get a criminal records, do
jail time
and receive millions in fines if somebody takes offense at what
they are doing.
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/reporting/
http://www.bsa.org/
http://www.spa.org/
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/ip.html
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/ob/OBMain.htm
Also note, there was recently a request for information from a
country which the US has economic sanctions against.
http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/sanctions/t11iran.pdf
Perkin-Elmer equipment might have "dual use" applications.
At 06:35 PM 4/15/03 -0500, you wrote:
On Mon, 2003-03-10 at 16:46, Lawrence Walker wrote:
Why does this legalistic crap with high moral
tone
forever come up on the list. For the most part almost
all old computer collectors are using programs illegally.
<snip>
a thousand others sitting on a program which they
won't
put into public domain due to not giving a shit about the
end user.
I usually take the extremely legalistic point of view to highlight to
people that the current system of copyright is broken, and only getting
more so to protect the interests of a few.
Whenever I catch somebody I know doing something that is technically
illegal I point out this fact most strenuous and let them know they can
get a criminal records, do jail time and receive millions in fines if
somebody takes offense at what they are doing. I will then suggest that
if they think this is wrong they should contact their representative and
suggest things be changed.
Most shrug, figure I'm a kook (probably right) and don't do a damn thing
... this is why things won't change.
Why is there not an similar outcry about
companies like
Lotus or Borland that put out products that were obsoleted
<snip>
companies it's tit for tat. Apple and a few
others do the
decent thing but they are the exceptions not the rule.
Borland has released some of their old dos compilers on their community
site, so I would not knock them too much. They sold off the rights to
many of their applications so I would not expect them to release them to
the public.
I'm hoping that the shareware type idea will come back with the rise of
open-source software creating new niches, and the big software companies
charging for support & updates. You don't want support, the software is
free, but if you want somebody to answer questions, you need to pay the
author something.
Regards,
Paul
7768
days inactive
7773
days old
33 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
aeg＠paradise.net.nz -
bkr＠WildHareComputers.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
classiccmp.org＠irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk -
donm＠cts.com -
drido＠optushome.com.au -
geoffr＠zipcon.net -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
mail.list＠analog-and-digital-solutions.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
oldcomp＠cox.net -
pietstan＠rogers.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
sanepsycho＠globaldialog.com -
technoid＠30below.com -
vcf＠siconic.com -
zmerch＠30below.com