3 Feb
2014
3 Feb
'14
9:54 a.m.
Now that I seem to finally have a working XT clone, does anyone have
suggestions for interesting (and available!) contemporary software to run
on it? It'd be nice to load it up with a few games and productivity apps
of the era.
It's only got 512K of RAM (although I may have an expansion board
somewhere), but it does have a 10MHz 8088 (well, if I can work out how to
kick it into high-speed mode) and I've got a VGA card in there right now.
I'm not sure if anyone is maintaining a software repository for early x86
PCs (and maybe what is out there will target '286 and above anyway)?
cheers
Jules
3 Feb
3 Feb
11:39 a.m.
On Mon, Feb 03, 2014 at 08:54:05AM -0600, Jules Richardson wrote:
[...]
I'm not sure if anyone is maintaining a software
repository for early x86 PCs
(and maybe what is out there will target '286 and above anyway)?
There's a pile of likely-looking bits and pieces on TOSEC:
https://archive.org/details/IBM_PC_Compatibles_TOSEC_2012_04_23
2 p.m.
On 02/03/2014 10:39 AM, Peter Corlett wrote:
On Mon, Feb 03, 2014 at 08:54:05AM -0600, Jules
Richardson wrote:
[...]
This is where I wish email had a feature to combine messages :) Thanks to
both you and Liam, both those links look like they'll do exactly what I need.
cheers
Jules
I'm not sure if anyone is maintaining a
software repository for early x86 PCs
(and maybe what is out there will target '286 and above anyway)?
There's a pile of likely-looking bits and pieces on TOSEC:
https://archive.org/details/IBM_PC_Compatibles_TOSEC_2012_04_23 
12:32 p.m.
On 3 February 2014 14:54, Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I seem to finally have a working XT clone,
does anyone have
suggestions for interesting (and available!) contemporary software to run on
it? It'd be nice to load it up with a few games and productivity apps of
the era.
It's only got 512K of RAM (although I may have an expansion board
somewhere), but it does have a 10MHz 8088 (well, if I can work out how to
kick it into high-speed mode) and I've got a VGA card in there right now.
I'm not sure if anyone is maintaining a software repository for early x86
PCs (and maybe what is out there will target '286 and above anyway)?
http://vetusware.com/
A lot of the old classics are there. I'd assemble a portfolio of the
SOTA from when that machine was current: probably 1-2-3 r2,
WordPerfect 4.2, maybe classic WordStar, dBase III for the sheer
masochism of it, etc. :?)
--
Liam Proven * Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk * GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com * Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 * Cell: +44 7939-087884
1:28 p.m.
On 02/03/2014 09:32 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 3 February 2014 14:54, Jules Richardson
<jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Now that I seem to finally have a working XT clone, does anyone
> have suggestions for interesting (and available!) contemporary
> software to run on it? It'd be nice to load it up with a few games
> and productivity apps of the era.
There was one huge reason that professionals bought PCs and
PC-XTs--Lotus 1-2-3. When IBM brought out the PS/2 line, they resorted
to using a copy-protection-crack utility to get it onto a 3.5"
floppy--and they admitted it. That's how important 1-2-3 was. 1-2-3
was behind EMS/LIM and was the primary motive for the Intel Aboveboard
cards.
Word Perfect was probably the single dominant WP package back then also.
There were lots of other non-x86 personal computer systems that were
much cheaper with good graphics to run games than the 5160.
--Chuck
1:44 p.m.
On 3 February 2014 18:28, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
Word Perfect was probably the single dominant WP
package back then also.
Supplanting WordStar, though. And though there were many WS products -
WS2000, WS Express (known to Amstrad owners as Wordstar 1512), etc.,
the original WP was WordStar. WS 3 on the PC, later WS4 (which was
really NewStar, bought in & renamed:
http://www.wordstar.org/index.php/wordstar-history )
XyWrite, PC Write, VolksWriter etc. never achieved much currency in
Europe AFAIAA.
Xtree was also very common, for file management.
PC Tools or Norton Utilities.
Even on an XT, DR-DOS 3.41 was better than MS-DOS. :?)
--
Liam Proven * Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk * GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com * Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 * Cell: +44 7939-087884
2:19 p.m.
On 02/03/2014 10:44 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
Supplanting WordStar, though. And though there were
many WS products -
WS2000, WS Express (known to Amstrad owners as Wordstar 1512), etc.,
the original WP was WordStar. WS 3 on the PC, later WS4 (which was
really NewStar, bought in & renamed:
http://www.wordstar.org/index.php/wordstar-history )
I was a WS2000 user almost from the beginning. Compared to WS3/4, it
was light-years ahead. I have a demo floppy (SSDD) for Word 1.0--it was
pretty interesting, but put a lot of extra text on the screen, so that
the text "window" itself was pretty small. One exception is that I
composed my help files using WS 4--the file format is very simple to
massage.
Fortunately for me, WS2000 came packaged with Star Exchange, so no great
loss when I eventually went to Word.
But yes, there were scads of word processors (and spreadsheets--remember
SuperCalc?). Some never made it from the 8-bit world (e.g. Spellbinder,
Memowrite) and that was too bad.
--Chuck
1:58 p.m.
On 02/03/2014 12:28 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Word Perfect was probably the single dominant WP
package back then also.
Indeed. I didn't have much dealing with the earlier versions, but 5.1 was a
wonderful bit of software - personally I found it far nicer to use than the
graphical wp's which gradually replaced it.
There were lots of other non-x86 personal computer
systems that were much
cheaper with good graphics to run games than the 5160.
Absolutely, certainly no shortage of examples there. It would just be nice
to get a couple of games on the machine because that's probably what will
most interest people when one day it goes off to a new home (well, assuming
that the hard disk is still running then, which might be asking a bit much!)
Oh, I solved my floppy drive problem by the way - enabling broken change
line support automagically works. Possible glitch/missing feature with that
particular drive (the only jumpers present are for termination enable and
unit select). It's useful to know that the FDC on the desktop machine isn't
fubar, anyway, even if the BIOS is a bit lacking.
cheers
Jules
2 p.m.
Sent from my iPad
On 3 Feb 2014, at 18:28, Chuck Guzis <cclist at
sydex.com> wrote:
I have simple WP and spreadsheet package that runs on early machines (I have it
running on an NEC V40 based Olivetti PC1 Prodest). The package is called "First
Choice"
On 02/03/2014 09:32 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 3 February 2014 14:54, Jules Richardson
<jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Now that I seem to finally have a working XT clone, does anyone
> have suggestions for interesting (and available!) contemporary
> software to run on it? It'd be nice to load it up with a few games
> and productivity apps of the era.
There was one huge reason that professionals bought PCs and
PC-XTs--Lotus 1-2-3. When IBM brought out the PS/2 line, they resorted
to using a copy-protection-crack utility to get it onto a 3.5"
floppy--and they admitted it. That's how important 1-2-3 was. 1-2-3 was behind
EMS/LIM and was the primary motive for the Intel Aboveboard cards.
Word Perfect was probably the single dominant WP package back then also.
There were lots of other non-x86 personal computer systems that were much cheaper with
good graphics to run games than the 5160.
--Chuck
4:33 p.m.
Has anyone accessed Vetusware lately? I had trouble getting past the main page.
On Feb 3, 2014, at 11:32 AM, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
On 3 February 2014 14:54, Jules Richardson
<jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I seem to finally have a working XT
clone, does anyone have
suggestions for interesting (and available!) contemporary software to run on
it? It'd be nice to load it up with a few games and productivity apps of
the era.
It's only got 512K of RAM (although I may have an expansion board
somewhere), but it does have a 10MHz 8088 (well, if I can work out how to
kick it into high-speed mode) and I've got a VGA card in there right now.
I'm not sure if anyone is maintaining a software repository for early x86
PCs (and maybe what is out there will target '286 and above anyway)?
http://vetusware.com/
A lot of the old classics are there. I'd assemble a portfolio of the
SOTA from when that machine was current: probably 1-2-3 r2,
WordPerfect 4.2, maybe classic WordStar, dBase III for the sheer
masochism of it, etc. :?)
--
Liam Proven * Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk * GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com * Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 * Cell: +44 7939-087884
9:20 p.m.
On 02/03/2014 05:27 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2014, Kurt K wrote:
It does seem to be dead. Wayback seem to have done a good job of archiving
the pages, but I suspect that doesn't extend to the actual downloads. Even
things such as login/register are dead on the live site, suggesting that
something major has happened (i.e. they're not just trying to mask
downloads from non-registered users).
cheers
Jules
Has anyone accessed Vetusware lately? I had
trouble getting past the
main page.
I just barely remarked on that. I think they are gone.
4 Feb
4 Feb
12:09 a.m.
On 02/03/2014 06:20 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
It does seem to be dead. Wayback seem to have done a
good job of
archiving the pages, but I suspect that doesn't extend to the actual
downloads. Even things such as login/register are dead on the live
site, suggesting that something major has happened (i.e. they're not
just trying to mask downloads from non-registered users).
Okay, there's a mirror here:
http://files.wehack.net/Vetusware/
Someone evidently thought to mirror the Vetusware content. Someone
please copy the above site and archive it. My net interface is only
1Mbps and it would probably take forever for me to do.
--Chuck
10:02 a.m.
On Mon, Feb 03, 2014 at 09:09:49PM -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:
[...]
Someone evidently thought to mirror the Vetusware
content. Someone please
copy the above site and archive it. My net interface is only 1Mbps and it
would probably take forever for me to do.
Your connection is not the problem here :)
I gave it a shot from a 1Gb/s connection, and files dribble in at a mere
128kb/s or so. I estimate it would take about three days to mirror everything.
I'm nostalgic for some of the pre-Web Internet -- I even still run a news
server! -- but the slow speed is not something I want back any time soon...
10:25 a.m.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2014, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 02/03/2014 06:20 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
Thanks for the link Chuck. I'll see if I can get that added to the
retroarchive.org site.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
It does seem to be dead. Wayback seem to have
done a good job of
archiving the pages, but I suspect that doesn't extend to the actual
downloads. Even things such as login/register are dead on the live
site, suggesting that something major has happened (i.e. they're not
just trying to mask downloads from non-registered users).
Okay, there's a mirror here:
http://files.wehack.net/Vetusware/
Someone evidently thought to mirror the Vetusware content. Someone please
copy the above site and archive it. My net interface is only 1Mbps and it
would probably take forever for me to do.
5 Feb
5 Feb
2:16 p.m.
regarding -> http://files.wehack.net/Vetusware/
Had a quick look around on the above site.It looks like it has a LOT more than just
Vetusware. Check out http://files.wehack.net/CLSGAMES Quite the collection of classic DOS
games.
Definitely deserves to be bookmarked.
cheers
--
alex
7:37 p.m.
I tried to access the site but got a 403 Forbidden. If anyone out there could archive the
site, while it exists and is accessible, I'd recommend it.
On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:16 PM, azd30 <azd30 at telus.net> wrote:
regarding -> http://files.wehack.net/Vetusware/
Had a quick look around on the above site.It looks like it has a LOT more than just
Vetusware. Check out http://files.wehack.net/CLSGAMES Quite the collection of classic DOS
games.
Definitely deserves to be bookmarked.
cheers
--
alex
7:58 p.m.
On Wed, 5 Feb 2014, Kurt K wrote:
I tried to access the site but got a 403 Forbidden.
If anyone out there could archive the site, while it exists and is accessible, I'd
recommend it.
On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:16 PM, azd30 <azd30 at telus.net> wrote:
>
> regarding -> http://files.wehack.net/Vetusware/
>
> Had a quick look around on the above site.It looks like it has a LOT more than just
Vetusware. Check out http://files.wehack.net/CLSGAMES Quite the collection of classic DOS
games.
> Definitely deserves to be bookmarked.
>
I got into the "F" files in DBMS. It looks like it's been turned off.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
9:12 p.m.
On 02/05/2014 06:58 PM, geneb wrote:
On Wed, 5 Feb 2014, Kurt K wrote:
Urgh... I'd not downloaded anything yet as I figured I'd let someone
archive it first - ratso! Did you get any of the system or utility stuff?
The index is on wayback - but of course, not any of the files :-(
cheers
Jules
I tried to access the site but got a 403
Forbidden. If anyone out there
could archive the site, while it exists and is accessible, I'd recommend it.
On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:16 PM, azd30 <azd30 at telus.net> wrote:
>
> regarding -> http://files.wehack.net/Vetusware/
>
> Had a quick look around on the above site.It looks like it has a LOT
> more than just Vetusware. Check out http://files.wehack.net/CLSGAMES
> Quite the collection of classic DOS games.
> Definitely deserves to be bookmarked.
>
I got into the "F" files in DBMS. It looks like it's been turned off.
6 Feb
6 Feb
12:57 a.m.
New subject: Vetusware (was: Re: contemporary XT software?)
* On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:12:05PM -0600, Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at
gmail.com> wrote:
On 02/05/2014 06:58 PM, geneb wrote:
Dangit. :(
Yeah, I got as far as 'c' in DBMS (about 512 MB total) before I was
shut down. I was being really polite and leaving lots of delay between
requests, too.
Sigh.
I hope someone else got it.
-Seth
On Wed, 5 Feb 2014, Kurt K wrote:
I got into the "F" files in DBMS. It looks like it's been turned off.
Urgh... I'd not downloaded anything yet as I figured I'd let someone
archive it first - ratso! Did you get any of the system or utility
stuff?
The index is on wayback - but of course, not any of the files :-( 
7:26 a.m.
New subject: Vetusware (was: Re: contemporary XT software?)
On Thu, 6 Feb 2014, Seth Morabito wrote:
Yeah, I got as far as 'c' in DBMS (about 512
MB total) before I was
shut down. I was being really polite and leaving lots of delay between
requests, too.
Didn't the original site have a development tools and languages section?
That's not present in either of the mirrors mentioned here.
--
3:26 p.m.
New subject: Vetusware (was: Re: contemporary XT software?)
Steven
You said either of the mirror site's, what is the other site? Is it possible that the
bandwidth was exceeded for the site that was cut off? Would it be worth contacting the
site holder? A polite request and one person archiving might be successful?
On Feb 6, 2014, at 6:26 AM, Steven Hirsch <snhirsch at gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 6 Feb 2014, Seth Morabito wrote:
Yeah, I got as far as 'c' in DBMS (about
512 MB total) before I was
shut down. I was being really polite and leaving lots of delay between
requests, too.
Didn't the original site have a development tools and languages section? That's
not present in either of the mirrors mentioned here.
--
9:36 a.m.
New subject: Vetusware (was: Re: contemporary XT software?)
On 6 February 2014 05:57, Seth Morabito <lists at loomcom.com> wrote:
Dangit. :(
Yeah, I got as far as 'c' in DBMS (about 512 MB total) before I was
shut down. I was being really polite and leaving lots of delay between
requests, too.
Sigh.
I hope someone else got it.
FWIW, I've been (very intermittently) using Vetus for years, and IIRC
the site's changed domain 2 or 3 times. I suspect they get taken down
by DMCA-type attacks.
I suspect it may be back...
--
Liam Proven * Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk * GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com * Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 * Cell: +44 7939-087884
1:09 a.m.
NAPALM gives a link to ftp://176.107.241.42/public/VetusWare/
I downloaded a couple of files, so maybe this one is good.
--Chuck
9:14 a.m.
On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 10:09:32PM -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:
NAPALM gives a link to
ftp://176.107.241.42/public/VetusWare/
I downloaded a couple of files, so maybe this one is good.
It's certainly a lot faster, and is also in a country that cares rather less
about copyright infringement.
10:33 a.m.
On Wed, 5 Feb 2014, Chuck Guzis wrote:
NAPALM gives a link to
ftp://176.107.241.42/public/VetusWare/
I downloaded a couple of files, so maybe this one is good.
Grabbing it. :)
Thanks Chuck.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
8 Feb
8 Feb
11:29 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:33 AM, geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com> wrote:
On Wed, 5 Feb 2014, Chuck Guzis wrote:
NAPALM gives a link to ftp://176.107.241.42/public/VetusWare/
Since some folks are downloading, I'm wondering if these will wind up
somewhere accessible long-term. I don't want to hammer that FTP site if
others are already downloading, and will make them available.
EE
I downloaded a couple of files, so maybe this one is good.
Grabbing it. :)
Thanks Chuck.
9 Feb
9 Feb
1:11 p.m.
Who is downloading currently? Have you tested access by trying to download? It sounded
like everyone here was cut off. Somewhere saved is no good unless that location is
eventually discovered. Does anyone know of other mirrors?
On Feb 8, 2014, at 10:29 PM, Earl Evans <earl at retrobits.com> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:33 AM, geneb <geneb at
deltasoft.com> wrote:
On Wed, 5 Feb 2014, Chuck Guzis wrote:
NAPALM gives a link to ftp://176.107.241.42/public/VetusWare/
Since some folks are downloading, I'm wondering if these will wind up
somewhere accessible long-term. I don't want to hammer that FTP site if
others are already downloading, and will make them available.
EE
I downloaded a couple of files, so maybe this one is good.
Grabbing it. :)
Thanks Chuck.
6 Feb
6 Feb
10:27 a.m.
On Wed, 5 Feb 2014, Jules Richardson wrote:
On 02/05/2014 06:58 PM, geneb wrote:
You might want to look at this:
https://archive.org/details/IBM_PC_Compatibles_TOSEC_2012_04_23
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
On Wed, 5 Feb 2014, Kurt K wrote:
Urgh... I'd not downloaded anything yet as I figured I'd let someone archive
it first - ratso! Did you get any of the system or utility stuff?
The index is on wayback - but of course, not any of the files :-(
I tried to access the site but got a 403
Forbidden. If anyone out there
could archive the site, while it exists and is accessible, I'd recommend
it.
On Feb 5, 2014, at 1:16 PM, azd30 <azd30 at telus.net> wrote:
>
> regarding -> http://files.wehack.net/Vetusware/
>
> Had a quick look around on the above site.It looks like it has a LOT
> more than just Vetusware. Check out http://files.wehack.net/CLSGAMES
> Quite the collection of classic DOS games.
> Definitely deserves to be bookmarked.
>
I got into the "F" files in DBMS. It looks like it's been turned off.
4 Feb
4 Feb
11:27 a.m.
On 3 February 2014 21:33, Kurt K <kurtk7 at visi.com> wrote:
Has anyone accessed Vetusware lately? I had trouble
getting past the main page.
Please don't top-quote.
I've not used it for a while but for almost anything to work you need
to create an account and login. It's been that way for years.
Presumably this is because FAST are logging all downloads. ;-)
--
Liam Proven * Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk * GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com * Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 * Cell: +44 7939-087884
12:10 p.m.
On Tue, 4 Feb 2014, Liam Proven wrote:
On 3 February 2014 21:33, Kurt K <kurtk7 at
visi.com> wrote:
> Has anyone accessed Vetusware lately? I had trouble getting past the main page.
I've not used it for a while but for almost
anything to work you need
to create an account and login. It's been that way for years.
I think you'll find that the account setup link is broken right along with
everything else.
--
12:17 p.m.
________________________________
From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2014 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: contemporary XT software?
On 3 February 2014 21:33, Kurt K <kurtk7 at visi.com> wrote:
Has anyone accessed Vetusware lately?? I had trouble
getting past the main page.
Please don't top-quote.
I've not used it for a while but for almost anything to work you need
to create an account and login. It's been that way for years.
Presumably this is because FAST are logging all downloads. ;-)
--
Liam Proven * Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk * GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com * Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 * Cell: +44 7939-087884
-----
It's hard not to top quote when your email provider immediately does it for you.?
(like yahoo).
Every link off of Vetusware (including the login links), go to a 404 error.
Christopher.
12:46 p.m.
On 4 February 2014 17:17, Christopher Blackmon <ckblackm at yahoo.com> wrote:
It's hard not to top quote when your email
provider immediately does it for you. (like yahoo).
I don't really use my Y! account. I keep getting told that Gmail
top-quotes. Hint: it's not true. It doesn't.
Sure, it leaves the cursor on the top. But moving it is no harder than
putting your food on a plate rather than eating off the kitchen
counter-top by lowering your face to it, and my feeling about someone
who did *that* is roughly the same as that for my people who top-post.
--
Liam Proven * Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk * GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com * Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 * Cell: +44 7939-087884
2:08 p.m.
On 4 February 2014 12:46, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
On 4 February 2014 17:17, Christopher Blackmon
<ckblackm at yahoo.com> wrote:
Bottom posting while very useful, does make almost every screen reader
go crazy; while being an utter bitch for those using screen readers.
I'm lucky, I don't need to use a screen reader on most machines. But,
to put how bottom posting sounds in the context of a vision impaired
person:
"On four February two thousand fourteen twelve COLON forty-six, Liam
Proven LESS THAN {I can't reproduce the whatever the hell my screen
reader said} at {guh-mail} PERIOD com GREATER THAN wrote COLON LESS
THAN On four February two thousand fourteen seventeen COLON seventeen,
Christopher Blackmon LESS THAN {screen reader barfs} at yahoo PERIOD
com GREATER THAN wrote COLON LESS THAN LESS THAN It's not hard to top
quote when your {because lack of hypen, it sounds like "eh mail" all
one word} provider immediately does it for you. BRACKET like yahoo
BRACKET. LESS THAN LESS THAN LESS THAN I don't really use my Y
EXCLAMATION MARK account. I keep getting told that {guh-mail} LESS
THAN top HYPEN quotes. Hint COLON it's not true. It doesn't. LESS THAN
LESS THAN Sure, it leaves the curor on the top. But moving it is no
harder than LESS THAN putting your food on a plate rather than eating
off the kitchen LESS THAN counter HYPEN top by lowering your face to
it, and my feeling about someone LESS THAN who did ASTERISK that
ASTERISK is roughly the same as that for my people who top HYPEN post.
LESS THAN LESS THAN HYPEN HYPEN LESS THAN Liam Proven ASTERISK Profile
COLON H-T-T-P COLON SLASH SLASH {dafuq it just say?} PERIOD {"live
journal" as one word, with live pronounced like "liver"} PERIOD com
SLASH profile LESS THAN {"eh mail} COLON {...} AT {"six"} PERIOD
{"co"} PERIOD U-K ASTERISK {"Guh-mail"} SLASH G-PLUS SLASH Twitter
SLASH {"Flick-R"} SLASH {Facebook amazingly pronounced correctly...}
COLON {...} LESS THAN M-S-N COLON {...} AT {"ho tmail", no I don't
know why it did that either} PERIOD com ASTEROSL {What...?} SLASH aim
SLASH yahoo SLASH {Again... what?} COLON {again, all I say is
"Dafuq?"} LESS THAN {"tell" but clipped short) COLON PLUS forty-four
twenty HYPEN eight thousand six hundred eighty-five HYPEN zero four
hundred ninty-eight ASTERISK cell COLON PLUS forty-four seven thousand
nine hundred thirty-nine HYPEN zero eighty-seven thousand eight
hundred eighty-four."
Now, to properly get the effect of that *THING* above this, read it
about twice as fast as Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw talks in his Zero
Punctuation reviews (i.e. to the point the words start blurring
together), because that's what most people use for their screen
readers, lest they be stuck listening to a massive splurge of crap
like that for a half hour. Also, read it with horribly bad inflection,
and an overwhelming amount of monotony.
My vision impaired friends who actually need to use screen readers all
the time *HATE* bottom posting because for them top-posting because --
in the words of one friend -- "It's makes the damn thing shut the fuck
up." (Since the screen reader goes from text-reading mode into
read-what-was-just-typed mode if you start typing something.)
If one uses a "proper" GUI'fied E-mail client things get a bit
better... now you just can't tell where one message starts and another
message ends if there's "middle posting" going on. Unless of course,
you happen to talk with people who use plaintext e-mail, because then
you get the full fun of "LESS THAN LESS THAN LESS THAN..." noise along
with horrible outgoing HTML based e-mail.
So, don't lump all top-posters together. Some do it because "I'm not
dealing with this (fucking) noise anymore." (A quote from another
friend.)
Cheers,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
It's hard not to top quote when your email
provider immediately does it for you. (like yahoo).
I don't really use my Y! account. I keep getting told that Gmail
top-quotes. Hint: it's not true. It doesn't.
Sure, it leaves the cursor on the top. But moving it is no harder than
putting your food on a plate rather than eating off the kitchen
counter-top by lowering your face to it, and my feeling about someone
who did *that* is roughly the same as that for my people who top-post.
2:47 p.m.
On 02/04/2014 11:08 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
Bottom posting while very useful, does make almost
every screen reader
go crazy; while being an utter bitch for those using screen readers.
Okay, how about this proposal for bottom-posting?
1. No HTML posts. Everything is plaintext ASCII.
2. Edit the post to which you're responding to the minimum relevant
part (as above). Quoted text to be signified by ">" in the first line
position.
I can sympathize with your frustration with screen readers; the last
time I tried to use one, I thought I'd go crazy.
--Chuck
2:14 p.m.
Not that I use vetusware a lot, but I had created an account there in 2010.
A couple of years ago, I had acquired a Lotus 123 spreadsheet clone, called
Twin, that was at the top of Vetusware's 10 most wanted list.
Although I got the software uploaded, I never received any acknowledgement for
uploading it. At that point, I somewhat acknowledged that the site was dying,
or being neglected. I had not been back since that time, and as I visit it
today, I see that lots of the links are gone/dead.
I don't know if everything from vetusware got captured on the mirror site, but I
hope so, it would be a shame to have a lot of that stuff lost to time.
Jerry
On 02/ 4/14 10:27 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 3 February 2014 21:33, Kurt K <kurtk7 at
visi.com> wrote:
Has anyone accessed Vetusware lately? I had
trouble getting past the main page.
Please don't top-quote.
I've not used it for a while but for almost anything to work you need
to create an account and login. It's been that way for years.
Presumably this is because FAST are logging all downloads. ;-)
3 Feb
3 Feb
6:26 p.m.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2014, Liam Proven wrote:
http://vetusware.com/
A lot of the old classics are there. I'd assemble a portfolio of the
SOTA from when that machine was current: probably 1-2-3 r2,
WordPerfect 4.2, maybe classic WordStar, dBase III for the sheer
masochism of it, etc. :?)
Are you sure that site is functional? For the past several weeks, I've
been getting 404 on redirect from absolutely everything on their top page.
Steve
--
2 p.m.
Jules,
games: Red Baron, Test Drive.
productivity: Lotus Agenda, dBase, Lotus1-2-3, Wordperfect (or Wordstar)
programming: Turbo C2.0 and Turbo Assembler (or Microsoft Assembler)
utilities: ProComm, xtree, kermit.
cheers
--
alex
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jules Richardson" <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Sent: Monday, February 3, 2014 6:54:05 AM
Subject: contemporary XT software?
Now that I seem to finally have a working XT clone, does anyone have
suggestions for interesting (and available!) contemporary software to run
on it? It'd be nice to load it up with a few games and productivity apps
of the era.
It's only got 512K of RAM (although I may have an expansion board
somewhere), but it does have a 10MHz 8088 (well, if I can work out how to
kick it into high-speed mode) and I've got a VGA card in there right now.
I'm not sure if anyone is maintaining a software repository for early x86
PCs (and maybe what is out there will target '286 and above anyway)?
cheers
Jules
2:51 p.m.
* On Mon, Feb 03, 2014 at 08:54:05AM -0600, Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at
gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I seem to finally have a working XT clone, does anyone have
suggestions for interesting (and available!) contemporary software to
run on it? It'd be nice to load it up with a few games and
productivity apps of the era.
I used an XT in college, and I still remember my standard productivity
stack pretty well. Here's what I had on mine:
- MS-DOS 3.3
- WordPerfect 5.1
- A shareware clone of Lotus 1-2-3 called "As Easy As" (get it?)
- DataPerfect - a surprisingly nice and simple database system
- Telix - telecomm software with a crazy C-like scripting language
I was on the first experimental campus-wide ethernet deployment, so I
was blessed with a leased 3c503 8-bit ethernet card. We used Crynwr's
DOS Packet drivers, and DOS Trumpet for the applications. Trumpet
included Telnet, NNTP, FTP, Gopher, POP, and IRC clients - very full
featured for the time. Amazingly, both the Crynwr drivers and DOS
Trumpet still seem to be available with a quick Google search. Neat!
So, get your XT up on the net and report back to us! :)
-Seth
3826
days inactive
3832
days old
38 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
abuse＠cabal.org.uk -
azd30＠telus.net -
captainkirk359＠gmail.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
ckblackm＠yahoo.com -
earl＠retrobits.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
jim＠g1jbg.co.uk -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
kurtk7＠visi.com -
lists＠loomcom.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
other＠oryx.cc -
snhirsch＠gmail.com