I'm surprised that it took so little time for this list to get to this point. Another list I'm on took about two years for it to reach critical mass before it exploded into three additional mailing lists, all covering the same topic (with the result of many hurt feelings, a list that only lasted about six months before it imploded, with the original list still going strong). As I said to Sam in some private mail I sent to him: I'm not sure what can be done, but if the topic of a mailing list is held too tightly, eventually it'll die (like one of the mailing list I host now, although there are some other reasons for that as well) as there is little or nothing new being added. ... I don't want to seem overly pessimistic, and yes, perhaps the topics have drifted off a bit too much, but actions like yours (and I'm not trying to blame or pin anything on you, this is just my observations from about 5 years of being on several mailing lists (almost all of them high volume)) tend to do more harm over time than good, by splitting the community up, causing confusion, ill feelings and political overtones. And yet it continues (and Sam, in your reply to the above you appear sane and rational, yet your diatribes on the list show a completely different side, and one that isn't very flattering). Bill may "own" the current list, but that still doesn't prevent anyone resources. And perhaps against my better judgment, I'm doing such a thing (Lord help me), and so let it be. If Sam feels that he can run a list better than Bill, or even I, then he is certainly free to start his own and see who signs up. Much like I am doing now. It's there. If no one subscribes and this list continues to flurish, so be it. If, on the other hand, my list takes off and this one dies, so be it. Currently, the only person subscribed is me. I'm not going to add people, it's up to you. To subscribe, send a message to classiccomp-request(a)lists.armigeron.com with a subject line of 'subscribe' (you might want to put this on the first line of the body as well). That's it. You'll then recieve a welcome message describing the rules and regulations of the list, as well as the unsubscribe rules. If you don't like the rules, we can talk, or you can walk. Simple, eh? -spc (We shall see ... )