1 Dec
2003
1 Dec
'03
9:34 a.m.
woot! I just got my associate ID from encompass... does this mean I can
legally run VMS for fun? yay!
What's next. The message said "in a few days I would have access to the
license"
I suppose I ought to get downloading simh/VAX huh?
Ron.
1 Dec
1 Dec
10:06 a.m.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Ron Hudson wrote:
woot! I just got my associate ID from encompass...
does this mean I can
legally run VMS for fun? yay!
Yay!
What's next. The message said "in a few days
I would have access to the
license"
Yeah, it takes a while before membership info drips through into
the Montagar systems, hence the wait.
I suppose I ought to get downloading simh/VAX huh?
Yep. That, and any media if you need them. Then prepare for a
short registration process at the Montagar website, which will
then e-mail you your OpenVMS License PAK sets. This includes
a license for both the operating system *and* a large selection
of layered products.
[damn, that sounded like a salez pitch, no?]
Have fun! :)
--f
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/
Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA
12:47 p.m.
woot! I just got my associate ID from encompass...
does this mean I can
legally run VMS for fun? yay!
What's next. The message said "in a few days I would have access to the
license"
I suppose I ought to get downloading simh/VAX huh?
You need VMS CD's, you can get the VAX Hobbyist CD from Montagar. Then you
need the License PAK's that you get from them as well.
Zane
1:08 p.m.
On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 08:47 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Could I get these more cheaply online somewhere. I am currently
uneremployed
and can't make ends meet as it is. I doubt if my wife will spring for
the
$30 VMS takes. If I remember the vax 11/780 I used to op had only about
a
400mb hard drive. How much do I need for a vms system?
Hmm Layered products, C compiler? Pascal Compiler? what was most
software
for the VAX written in? What other stuff makes for a usefull system?
woot! I just
got my associate ID from encompass... does this mean I
can
legally run VMS for fun? yay!
What's next. The message said "in a few days I would have access to
the
license"
I suppose I ought to get downloading simh/VAX huh?
You need VMS CD's, you can get the VAX Hobbyist CD from Montagar.
Then you
need the License PAK's that you get from them as well.
Zane
1:25 p.m.
Ron,
Could I get these more cheaply online somewhere.
Sure thing, lemme know what you need and we'll set
you up with The Goods.
Hmm Layered products, C compiler? Pascal Compiler?
what was most
software
for the VAX written in? What other stuff makes for a usefull system?
VMS was done in many languages, lots of that being BLISS. More
recent systems try to move as much as possible to C.
The good news is, that 400MB is quite a bit for a VMS/VAX system,
so you can "load 'r up" pretty well.
Cheers,
Fred
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/
Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA
2:02 p.m.
On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 09:25 PM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
Sure thing, lemme know what you need and we'll
set
you up with The Goods.
More recent systems try to move as much as possible to C.
The good news is, that 400MB is quite a bit for a VMS/VAX system,
so you can "load 'r up" pretty well.
Actually my main server machine (beehive) linux redhat 7.somthing
has about 11gb on it free.
Which is more fun, a linux with a hidden VAX server in my network
or
A Windows 95/linux laptop running simh
VAX
portable vs powerful ...hmm. How does VAX mail hook up to the outside
world?
2:12 p.m.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Ron Hudson wrote:
Actually my main server machine (beehive) linux redhat
7.somthing
has about 11gb on it free.
My network has about, oh, 6TB or so. But:
Which is more fun, a linux with a hidden VAX server in
my network
or A Windows 95/linux laptop running simh VAX
The lappy! I have made several
older techies *drool* during
flights. I travel business class (nevermind that), so usually
have enough space to work. One time, on a flight from Amsterdam
to SFO, I was working on some weirdish Ultrix crashing thing on
SimH/VAX, and this guy comes up, asking "hey... is that Linux on
your laptop? I couldnt help but noticing the UNIX command lines,
soo.."
Heh. He nearly fell over when shown that it was Win2K, running
SimH/VAX with Ultrix-32 on it. It then took only ten minutes
to get him moved towards me, and a serial cable laid out to
his lappy, as a terminal. We had fun the entire flight, and
still do lots of email :) He knew UNIX, but preferred VMS, so
now travels with Simh/VAX running OpenVMS 7.1 including all
gadgets he could think of... I believe he got an extra lappy
just for that.
*DAMN* why cant we use WLAN inflight :(
portable vs powerful ...hmm. How does VAX mail hook up
to the outside
world?
Just regular SMTP.
Cheers,
Fred
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/
Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA
2:36 p.m.
On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 10:12 PM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Ron Hudson wrote:
yup lappy it is. The linux on the laptop (sputnik - it's a Toshiba
sattlite) has about 3.6 gb free. So I could run Simh/VAX/VMS in
the background and telnet into localhost to login?
Actually my main server machine (beehive) linux
redhat 7.somthing
has about 11gb on it free.
My network has about, oh, 6TB or so. But:
> Which is more fun, a linux with a hidden VAX server in my network
> or A Windows 95/linux laptop running simh VAX The lappy! I have made several older techies *drool*
during
flights. I travel business class (nevermind that), so usually
have enough space to work. One time, on a flight from Amsterdam
to SFO, I was working on some weirdish Ultrix crashing thing on
SimH/VAX, and this guy comes up, asking "hey... is that Linux on
your laptop? I couldnt help but noticing the UNIX command lines,
soo.."
If you are going to run unix, why simulate a vax and run vax unix
when you can run linux directly? :^) does Ultrix have advantages
over linux?
Heh. He nearly fell over when shown that it was Win2K, running
SimH/VAX with Ultrix-32 on it. It then took only ten minutes
to get him moved towards me, and a serial cable laid out to
his lappy, as a terminal. We had fun the entire flight, and
still do lots of email :) He knew UNIX, but preferred VMS, so
now travels with Simh/VAX running OpenVMS 7.1 including all
gadgets he could think of... I believe he got an extra lappy
just for that.
*DAMN* why cant we use WLAN inflight :(
portable vs powerful ...hmm. How does VAX mail
hook up to the outside
world?
Just regular SMTP.
Cheers,
Fred
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation)
Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at
http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/
Visit the Archives at
http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale,
CA, USA
2:52 p.m.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Ron Hudson wrote:
yup lappy it is. The linux on the laptop (sputnik -
it's a Toshiba
sattlite) has about 3.6 gb free. So I could run Simh/VAX/VMS in
the background and telnet into localhost to login?
Yup.
If you are going to run unix, why simulate a vax and
run vax unix
when you can run linux directly? :^) does Ultrix have advantages
over linux?
Because I consider Linux to be "not unix", but lets not get
into
a religious war here. I need Win2K for my production work, so my
lappies all have that. Doesn't stop me from using E11 and SimH for
fun stuff, of course.
Fred
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/
Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA
3:01 p.m.
On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 10:52 PM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Ron Hudson wrote:
No religious war here.. Linux really is not unix (regardless of what
sco says) but is close enough for me.
yup lappy it is. The linux on the laptop (sputnik
- it's a Toshiba
sattlite) has about 3.6 gb free. So I could run Simh/VAX/VMS in
the background and telnet into localhost to login?
Yup.
If you are going to run unix, why simulate a vax
and run vax unix
when you can run linux directly? :^) does Ultrix have advantages
over linux?
Because I consider Linux to be "not unix", but lets not get
into
a religious war here. I need Win2K for my production work, so my
lappies all have that. Doesn't stop me from using E11 and SimH for
fun stuff, of course.
Fred
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation)
Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at
http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/
Visit the Archives at
http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale,
CA, USA
3:20 p.m.
yup lappy it is. The linux on the laptop (sputnik -
it's a Toshiba
sattlite) has about 3.6 gb free. So I could run Simh/VAX/VMS in
the background and telnet into localhost to login?
Um... What is the CPU in the Toshiba? I know the PDP-10 emulation requires
a pretty fast system, for VAX you probably need even more.
Zane
11:02 p.m.
On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 11:20 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> yup lappy it is. The linux on the laptop (sputnik
- it's a Toshiba
> sattlite) has about 3.6 gb free. So I could run Simh/VAX/VMS in
> the background and telnet into localhost to login?
AMD k6 (um 665.19 bogoMIPs :^) I don't remember the real speed)
Um... What is the CPU in the Toshiba? I know the PDP-10 emulation
requires
a pretty fast system, for VAX you probably need even more.
Zane
2 Dec
2 Dec
3:20 a.m.
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Ron Hudson wrote:
> Um... What is the CPU in the Toshiba? I know the
PDP-10 emulation
> requires
> a pretty fast system, for VAX you probably need even more.
I run a PDP-11/34a
and an 11/83 on my M700 with P3/850, and I run
some VAXen on it, no problem. Even my HiNote lappies can run SimH
just fine... its still faster than a real one ;-)
--f
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/
Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA
1 Dec
1 Dec
3:18 p.m.
portable vs powerful ...hmm. How does VAX mail hook up
to the outside
world?
Once you have TCPIP installed, VMS rocks for email. My private mail server is
an Alpha running OpenVMS 7.2.1H1.
As for the Simh/VAX questions, really can't help. A VMS box isn't enough of
a size/power hog for me to bother with emulation.
Zane
1:42 p.m.
I am currently uneremployed and can't make ends
meet
as it is. I doubt if my wife will spring for the $30 VMS
takes.
snappy responses:
Well, our time for your questions is worth about $30 anyway.
If you want to be productive jobwise,
seriously go do netBSD/Linux instead of VMS.
Hmm Layered products, C compiler?
Here's what they say they give you at order time:
http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html
OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kit V3.0:
OpenVMS V7.3
DECWindows 1.2.6 (Motif)
DECnet Phase IV
DECnet OSI Phase V
TCPIP V5.1
Kerberos VAX V1.0
BASIC V3.9
Compaq C V6.4
Compaq FORTRAN V6.6
Pascal V5.8
DCPS V2.0
DECSet V12.4
Datatrieve V7.2
>> and... shipping's included
eBay disks are usually more money.
If I remember the vax 11/780 I used to op had only
about a
400mb hard drive. How much do I need for a vms system?
200mb - 1gb should be enough for a minimal/maximal system.
<snappy>
And, time to waste. Got that?
</snappy>
This hobbyist stuff is sometimes just plain irresponsible.
Sounds like you don't need to be that.
John A.
1:49 p.m.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, John Allain wrote:
snappy responses:
This is *totally* uncalled
for.
--fred
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/
Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA
2:29 p.m.
On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 09:49 PM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, John Allain wrote:
Thank you.
snappy responses:
This is *totally*
uncalled for.
--fred
--
Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation)
Collector/Archivist
Visit the VAXlab Project at
http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/
Visit the Archives at
http://www.pdp11.nl/
Email: waltje(a)pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale,
CA, USA
2:28 p.m.
On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 09:42 PM, John Allain wrote:
Sorry, You will have to stand in line behind my creditors..
I have been in job search for a technical job for over 4 years.
I am a well-skilled Novell system administrator. I have enough
experience with linux/unix to earn a brainbench cert as unix
administrator.
But instead of finding any jobs for my experience i am forced to
work at [shudder] radio shack [/shudder] (and I am too honest to
be a sales type so I'm the stock guy) (which gets $7.00 /hr and
15/20 hr a week.)
The last time I touched VMS it was at version 3.0.
15/20hr a week scleping boxes, the rest is mine but I
am also still looking for that tech job.
I am currently
uneremployed and can't make ends meet
as it is. I doubt if my wife will spring for the $30 VMS
takes.
snappy responses:
Well, our time for your questions is worth about $30 anyway.
If you want to be productive jobwise,
seriously go do netBSD/Linux instead of VMS. Hmm Layered products, C compiler?
Here's what they say they give you at order time:
http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html
OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kit V3.0:
OpenVMS V7.3
DECWindows 1.2.6 (Motif)
DECnet Phase IV
DECnet OSI Phase V
TCPIP V5.1
Kerberos VAX V1.0
BASIC V3.9
Compaq C V6.4
Compaq FORTRAN V6.6
Pascal V5.8
DCPS V2.0
DECSet V12.4
Datatrieve V7.2
>> and... shipping's included
eBay disks are usually more money.
If I remember the vax 11/780 I used to op had
only about a
400mb hard drive. How much do I need for a vms system?
200mb - 1gb should be enough for a minimal/maximal system.
<snappy>
And, time to waste. Got that? </snappy>
This hobbyist stuff is sometimes just plain irresponsible.
Sounds like you don't need to be that.
Walk a mile..
John A.
3:16 p.m.
The last time I touched VMS it was at version 3.0.
Ooo...that's about what I recall it as being when I last used it (which
was sometime in the '80s).
I surprised myself relatively recently, though, with how much I
remembered, when I wound up at a DCL prompt for a few minutes.
Ah, the memories. (I wonder if DEC ever fixed PATCH....)
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18 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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allain＠panix.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA -
rhudson＠cnonline.net -
waltje＠pdp11.nl