25 Jan
2013
25 Jan
'13
8:41 a.m.
I have been through 3 CRT monitors that died ( circa 1989) that were
attached to a SUN 3/140 station. The monitors are SUN Model M19P114 part
no 365-1051-01.
The pin out on the 3/140 is
1-VIDEO+
2-GND
3-HSYNC
4-VSYNC
5-NC
6-VIDEO-
7 GND
8-GND
9-GND
VIDEO+ and VIDEO- are ECL levels , and HSYNC and VSYNC are TTL levels.
I believe it is EGA monochrome. I am not sure if this SUN has non standard
( proprietary) output for video. Is there anyone that knows a way to
connect this SUN to a standard LCD VGA monitor using some kind of video
converter or by using a multi-sync monitor ?
Hutch
25 Jan
25 Jan
9:05 a.m.
I'd say that video- equals to GND. I'd combine H and V sync and try it
on a composite monitor.
---
Enviado do meu Motorola PT550
Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hutch" <shutchman at gmail.com>
To: <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 2:41 PM
Subject: CRT monitor for SUN 3/140
I have been through 3 CRT monitors that died ( circa
1989) that were
attached to a SUN 3/140 station. The monitors are SUN Model M19P114 part
no 365-1051-01.
The pin out on the 3/140 is
1-VIDEO+
2-GND
3-HSYNC
4-VSYNC
5-NC
6-VIDEO-
7 GND
8-GND
9-GND
VIDEO+ and VIDEO- are ECL levels , and HSYNC and VSYNC are TTL levels.
I believe it is EGA monochrome. I am not sure if this SUN has non standard
( proprietary) output for video. Is there anyone that knows a way to
connect this SUN to a standard LCD VGA monitor using some kind of video
converter or by using a multi-sync monitor ?
Hutch
9:16 a.m.
On 1/25/13 8:41 AM, Hutch wrote:
I have been through 3 CRT monitors that died ( circa
1989) that were
attached to a SUN 3/140 station.
I believe it is EGA monochrome.
Nope. MUCH higher resolution/horz sweep rate than EGA (1152 x 900)
Common failure mode is the high voltage supply.
10:13 a.m.
any idea if it is possible to use an LCD monitor?
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 1/25/13 8:41 AM, Hutch wrote:
Nope. MUCH higher resolution/horz sweep rate than EGA (1152 x 900)
Common failure mode is the high voltage supply.
I have been through 3 CRT monitors that died (
circa 1989) that were
attached to a SUN 3/140 station.
I believe it is EGA monochrome.
11:18 a.m.
If the LCD supports an ECL monochrome video signal, and will sync to a 66 Hz vertical and
61.8 kHz horizontal... then, yes.
I rate it as unlikely you'll find an LCD that does, though.
Extron made sync/signal converters for attaching workstation graphics to projection
displays that may help in your quest, but even here you will find that they mostly do not
output full resolution.
ok
bear.
--
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 25, 2013, at 10:13, Hutch <shutchman at gmail.com> wrote:
any idea if it is possible to use an LCD monitor?
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 1/25/13 8:41 AM, Hutch wrote:
I have been through 3 CRT monitors that died (
circa 1989) that were
attached to a SUN 3/140 station.
I believe it is EGA monochrome.
Nope. MUCH higher resolution/horz sweep rate than EGA (1152 x 900)
Common failure mode is the high voltage supply. 
9:14 p.m.
From: r.stricklin <bear at typewritten.org>
If the LCD supports an ECL monochrome video signal, and will sync to a 66 Hz vertical and
61.8 kHz horizontal... then, yes.
I rate it as unlikely you'll find an LCD that does, though.
C: I don't know why this would be the case. Whether LCD or CRT, these units multiscan.
I can't imagine any monitor these days not syncing to 64 khz or thereabouts, and even
base VGA modes have vertical scan rates of 70hz (remembers Chuck using a vga monitor w/his
AT&T 6300).
?Some LCD's are a alot more versatile then you'd think. Earlier ones are
compatible w/EGA even (though it isn't the case here). I had a list of funky off the
beaten path chinese models that readily worked w/EGA or equivalent video.
9:52 p.m.
On 1/25/2013 9:14 PM, Chris Tofu wrote:
From: r.stricklin <bear at typewritten.org>
If the LCD supports an ECL monochrome video signal, and will sync to a 66 Hz vertical and
61.8 kHz horizontal... then, yes.
I rate it as unlikely you'll find an LCD that does, though.
The man known only as "C:" wrote:
(Quoting fixed above since it annoys the heck out of me)
The operative phrase here is "ECL monochrome video signal," I think...
- Josh
I don't know why this would be the case.
Whether LCD or CRT, these units multiscan. I can't imagine any monitor these days not
syncing to 64 khz or thereabouts, and even base VGA modes have vertical scan rates of 70hz
(remembers Chuck using a vga monitor w/his AT&T 6300).
Some LCD's are a alot more versatile then you'd think. Earlier ones are
compatible w/EGA even (though it isn't the case here). I had a list of funky off the
beaten path chinese models that readily worked w/EGA or equivalent video.
10:35 p.m.
From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com>
The operative phrase here is "ECL monochrome video signal," I think...
- Josh
C: I'm looking at this thread:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/archive/index.php/t-19233.html
If I had previously known about this phenomena, I forgot all about it.
Why is there a variation in the video signal? Is this comparable to the analog video which
varies infinitely to account for many colors/shades? My battery is dying, and I'm
tired. No more time to research tonight.
?
?I'm curious because I have an old HP color behemoth that a super-tech was unable to
get to display anything he threw at it. Now it's a long shot, I doubt it's an ECL
monitor (I just doubt it). Just want to learn something though. Stinks being in the dark.
26 Jan
26 Jan
1:04 p.m.
Why is there a variation in the video signal? Is this
comparable to the ana=
I may be telling you what you aready know, in which case I apologise.
ECL = Emitter Coupled Logic. It's a type of logic circuitry (in the same
way that DTL and TTL are types of logic circuitry). ECL generally uses a
-ve supply rail (often -5.2V) and is higher speed that TTL, etc.
The high speed feature is probably why it was used for this video signal.
At the time, TTL logic was not fast enough, and generally could not drive
long cables well at high (for TLT) speeds. ECL could.
There were TTL <-> ECL inteface ICs (IIRC 10124 and 10125), bnt of course
the speed they could rubn at was limited by the speed on the TTL side.
You could probably use a 10125 to convert this video signal to TTL, but
whether you could be able see individual pixels clearly I don't know.
log video which varies infinitely to account for many
colors/shades? My bat=
No, it's a 2-state digital signal. I asusme this is a 1-bit-per-pixel
system, like a lot of earleir workstations.
tery is dying, and I'm tired. No more time to
research tonight. =0A
I've foudn that runnign computers form the mains helps with this :-)
=A0=0A=
=A0I'm curious because I have an old HP color behemoth that a super-tech wa=
s unable to get to display anything he threw at it. Now it's a long shot, I=
I would be _very_ spuprised if a colour monitor had ECL inputs. On the
other hand I have come across an analogue HP colour monitor (that on the
HP9836C) where hte inputs are current, rather than voltage, driven.
Do you know the model number of this HP moniotr? What is the input connector?
Do you know if it works at all? The fact that it won't dispaly enything
might be due to a fualt i nthe monitor.
-tony
1:44 p.m.
I am the originator of the thread,
I have some ECL -> TTL chips, when my arcade converter is delivered, I will
connect the chip and let you know the results.
my monitor is monochrome.
The monitors are SUN Model M19P114 part no 365-1051-01.
The pin out on the 3/140 frame buffer is
1-VIDEO+
2-GND
3-HSYNC
4-VSYNC
5-NC
6-VIDEO-
7 GND
8-GND
9-GND
VIDEO+ and VIDEO- are ECL levels , and HSYNC and VSYNC are TTL levels.
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Why is there a
variation in the video signal? Is this comparable to the
ana=
I may be telling you what you aready know, in which case I apologise.
ECL = Emitter Coupled Logic. It's a type of logic circuitry (in the same
way that DTL and TTL are types of logic circuitry). ECL generally uses a
-ve supply rail (often -5.2V) and is higher speed that TTL, etc.
The high speed feature is probably why it was used for this video signal.
At the time, TTL logic was not fast enough, and generally could not drive
long cables well at high (for TLT) speeds. ECL could.
There were TTL <-> ECL inteface ICs (IIRC 10124 and 10125), bnt of course
the speed they could rubn at was limited by the speed on the TTL side.
You could probably use a 10125 to convert this video signal to TTL, but
whether you could be able see individual pixels clearly I don't know.
log video which varies infinitely to account for
many colors/shades? My
bat=
No, it's a 2-state digital signal. I asusme this is a 1-bit-per-pixel
system, like a lot of earleir workstations.
tery is dying, and I'm tired. No more time to
research tonight. =0A
I've foudn that runnign computers form the mains helps with this :-)
=A0=0A=
=A0I'm curious because I have an old HP color behemoth that a super-tech
wa=
s unable to get to display anything he threw at
it. Now it's a long
shot, I=
I would be _very_ spuprised if a colour monitor had ECL inputs. On the
other hand I have come across an analogue HP colour monitor (that on the
HP9836C) where hte inputs are current, rather than voltage, driven.
Do you know the model number of this HP moniotr? What is the input
connector?
Do you know if it works at all? The fact that it won't dispaly enything
might be due to a fualt i nthe monitor.
-tony
30 Jan
30 Jan
5:31 a.m.
This "arcade" video converter is not going to work for this task. It's
input scan rate can only go to 32.5KHz. The frame buffer outputs 61.8KHz.
I was searching monitor specs and came across an HP LP2065 LCD multisync
color monitor that looks promising. It has a Sun mode at 1152x900 @66Hz.
I would still need to convert the ECL with a MC10H125PG MECL to TTL
translator. Any opinions on if this will work for the SUN 3/140?
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Hutch <shutchman at gmail.com> wrote:
I am the originator of the thread,
I have some ECL -> TTL chips, when my arcade converter is delivered, I
will connect the chip and let you know the results.
my monitor is monochrome.
The monitors are SUN Model M19P114 part no 365-1051-01.
The pin out on the 3/140 frame buffer is
1-VIDEO+
2-GND
3-HSYNC
4-VSYNC
5-NC
6-VIDEO-
7 GND
8-GND
9-GND
VIDEO+ and VIDEO- are ECL levels , and HSYNC and VSYNC are TTL levels.
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>wrote:
Why is
there a variation in the video signal? Is this comparable to the
ana=
I may be telling you what you aready know, in which case I apologise.
ECL = Emitter Coupled Logic. It's a type of logic circuitry (in the same
way that DTL and TTL are types of logic circuitry). ECL generally uses a
-ve supply rail (often -5.2V) and is higher speed that TTL, etc.
The high speed feature is probably why it was used for this video signal.
At the time, TTL logic was not fast enough, and generally could not drive
long cables well at high (for TLT) speeds. ECL could.
There were TTL <-> ECL inteface ICs (IIRC 10124 and 10125), bnt of course
the speed they could rubn at was limited by the speed on the TTL side.
You could probably use a 10125 to convert this video signal to TTL, but
whether you could be able see individual pixels clearly I don't know.
log video which varies infinitely to account for
many colors/shades? My
bat=
No, it's a 2-state digital signal. I asusme this is a 1-bit-per-pixel
system, like a lot of earleir workstations.
tery is dying, and I'm tired. No more time to
research tonight. =0A
I've foudn that runnign computers form the mains helps with this :-)
=A0=0A=
=A0I'm curious because I have an old HP color behemoth that a
super-tech wa=
s unable to get to display anything he threw at
it. Now it's a long
shot, I=
I would be _very_ spuprised if a colour monitor had ECL inputs. On the
other hand I have come across an analogue HP colour monitor (that on the
HP9836C) where hte inputs are current, rather than voltage, driven.
Do you know the model number of this HP moniotr? What is the input
connector?
Do you know if it works at all? The fact that it won't dispaly enything
might be due to a fualt i nthe monitor.
-tony
29 Jan
29 Jan
11:04 a.m.
From: Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
Why is there a variation in the video signal? Is this
comparable to the ana=
I may be telling you what you aready know, in which case I apologise.
C: Repent sinner! Yes I've heard of ECL in whispers. Just that computer acronyms get
recycled so much, I assumed it referred to something else...
I've foudn that runnign computers form the mains helps with this :-)
C: Outlets are always available. The monstrously long extension cord was not on that
occasion.
Do you know the model number of this HP moniotr? What is the input connector?
Do you know if it works at all? The fact that it won't dispaly enything
might be due to a fualt i nthe monitor.
C: Can't remember the model #. It takes bnc inputs. Yes it did occur to me the
monthtuh could be busted.
25 Jan
25 Jan
9:35 a.m.
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Hutch <shutchman at gmail.com> wrote:
I have been through 3 CRT monitors that died ( circa
1989) that were
attached to a SUN 3/140 station. The monitors are SUN Model M19P114 part
no 365-1051-01.
The pin out on the 3/140 is
1-VIDEO+
2-GND
3-HSYNC
4-VSYNC
5-NC
6-VIDEO-
7 GND
8-GND
9-GND
VIDEO+ and VIDEO- are ECL levels , and HSYNC and VSYNC are TTL levels.
I believe it is EGA monochrome. I am not sure if this SUN has non standard
( proprietary) output for video. Is there anyone that knows a way to
connect this SUN to a standard LCD VGA monitor using some kind of video
converter or by using a multi-sync monitor ?
Hutch
Further info. No idea how to hook this up to a more modern monitor.
http://www.sun3arc.org/FAQ/sun.hardware.FAQ
501-1074 3004 "Carrera" CPU 2M (3/75,3/140,3/150,3/160,3/180)
monochrome video: The onboard framebuffer is a bwtwo.
The video output levels are ECL/TTL, with a resolution
of 1152 x 900 at 61.8KHz horizontal sync and 66Hz
vertical sync.
12:33 p.m.
I have got some ideas.
I bought one of these for about $30, it will arrive next week
SainSmart GBS-8220 RGB/CGA/EGA/YUV to VGA Arcade HD Video Converter BoardI
will add an ECL to TTL converter circuit in between the SUN ECL frame
buffer output (501-1419<http://www.sunshack.org/data/fbfaq/images/501-1490.jpg>-
MG1 bwtwo with D type connector) and this Video converter board which
outputs to the VGA monitor.
I will let you know if it works.
Also may be possible to change the frame buffer card to something other
than ECL.
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Hutch <shutchman
at gmail.com> wrote:
I have been through 3 CRT monitors that died (
circa 1989) that were
attached to a SUN 3/140 station. The monitors are SUN Model M19P114 part
no 365-1051-01.
The pin out on the 3/140 is
1-VIDEO+
2-GND
3-HSYNC
4-VSYNC
5-NC
6-VIDEO-
7 GND
8-GND
9-GND
VIDEO+ and VIDEO- are ECL levels , and HSYNC and VSYNC are TTL levels.
I believe it is EGA monochrome. I am not sure if this SUN has non
standard
( proprietary) output for video. Is there anyone
that knows a way to
connect this SUN to a standard LCD VGA monitor using some kind of video
converter or by using a multi-sync monitor ?
Hutch
Further info. No idea how to hook this up to a more modern monitor.
http://www.sun3arc.org/FAQ/sun.hardware.FAQ
501-1074 3004 "Carrera" CPU 2M (3/75,3/140,3/150,3/160,3/180)
monochrome video: The onboard framebuffer is a bwtwo.
The video output levels are ECL/TTL, with a resolution
of 1152 x 900 at 61.8KHz horizontal sync and 66Hz
vertical sync.
4296
days inactive
4301
days old
13 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bear＠typewritten.org -
derschjo＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
pu1bzz.listas＠gmail.com -
rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com -
shutchman＠gmail.com