27 Oct
2002
27 Oct
'02
7:53 a.m.
I would say that the three original manuals and the DOS SW contributes
mightily to the value to collectors.
When Items like this sell for such high values I notice they usually include
the original Software and manuals. Often they have the original boxes.
Also condition is very important to collectors. This one purports to be in
near perfect condition which is somewhat rare in its own right.
Paxton
Astoria, OR
27 Oct
27 Oct
2:03 p.m.
On Sun, 2002-10-27 at 13:54, Innfogra(a)aol.com wrote:
I would say that the three original manuals and the
DOS SW contributes
mightily to the value to collectors.
Maybe I'm just desensitized to the PCs since I grew up with these
machines and used them for years.
The documentation and DOS software aren't "rare" in any sense of the
word. There are vendors on the 'net who carry NOS manual sets
(including the HW refs and DOS). These manuals are out there in
abundance, as well as a surplus of NOS parts.
When Items like this sell for such high values I
notice they usually include
the original Software and manuals. Often they have the original boxes.
Also condition is very important to collectors. This one purports to be in
near perfect condition which is somewhat rare in its own right.
It is not unusual to find a PC in good condition as they hold up very
well. I can put together the same machine (in as good or better
condition) in an afternoon after placing a few phone calls. These
machines and parts are out there - everywhere. There is nothing special
about that PC, and I don't think it's value will appreciate to the
stratospheric levels that some other machines have. Or maybe I'm wrong
and the tide has turned (as observed in this auction.)
Paxton
Astoria, OR
5:23 p.m.
Also condition is very important to collectors. This
one purports to be in
near perfect condition which is somewhat rare in its own right.
OTOH, earlier today, I saw a computer that was labeled as being "Original
IBM XT in great condition"
It also said that it originally had a 2MB drive, but now had 21MB.
It also said that it originally had been 2 MHz, now 10 MHz.
It had a generic keyboard. The front said IBM Personal Computer XT, but
the back (and bottom chassis) were from a 5150 PC (labeled 5150, and with
labeled hole for cassette), with the spaces and brackets for the expansion
slots hacked away to fit an XT style board. (PC had 5 slots, XY had 8,
closer together). It had aftermarket EGA video, aftermarket floppy (no
DC37), aftermarket multi-function card, and presumably generic
motherboard. Hmmm. seems like not a single one of the things that were
said about it were correct. I did not think that it was worth the $35
they were asking for it.
But to somebody else, that might be the find of the day, . . .
YMMV
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
28 Oct
28 Oct
12:49 p.m.
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2:14 p.m.
New subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key
I need to locate a source and price quote(s) for
the PF1 keytop for a VT100,
OR a VT100 keyboard,
OR a VT100 with keyboard.
Our college administration dumpstered a bunch of stuff. They screwed up
and dumpstered some stuff that was personal property! They have returned
my VT100, but it is now missing a key. I am going to try to make them
make good on it.
To be honest, lately I only use it as a visual aid for explaining the
development of the internet, what characters were present for development
of programming languages, etc. Therefore, it doesn't even have to really
work, and I'd be willing to trade my working one for a dead one that has a
complete keyboard.
--
Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com
XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
3:09 p.m.
New subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
I need to locate a source and price quote(s) for
the PF1 keytop for a VT100,
OR a VT100 keyboard,
OR a VT100 with keyboard.
Our college administration dumpstered a bunch of stuff. They screwed up
and dumpstered some stuff that was personal property! They have returned
my VT100, but it is now missing a key. I am going to try to make them
make good on it.
To be honest, lately I only use it as a visual aid for explaining the
development of the internet, what characters were present for development
of programming languages, etc. Therefore, it doesn't even have to really
work, and I'd be willing to trade my working one for a dead one that has a
complete keyboard.
Jerome Fine replies:
HOW MANY?? And do you want the one that is painted
GOLD? That will cost extra.
I presume you want the complete keyboard or JUST the
PF1 key????
I don't know how much postage is to CA from Toronto,
but UPS ground should not be too bad. Actual estimated
cost is what I need for packing materials. My wife also
sends a free thank you for one more thing out the door.
Dust is free!
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
3:43 p.m.
New subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key
On Monday, October 28, 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
I need to locate a source and price quote(s) for
the PF1 keytop for a VT100,
I have an extra PF1 keytop that I'll send you for free. Just say the word
and I'll send it to whatever address, defaulting to this one:
Fred Cisin
XenoSoft
PO Box 1236
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
--
Jeffrey Sharp
4:42 p.m.
New subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key
On a similar note, my VT100 is missing the "Setup" key. Does anyone
know where replacement keys can be found?
Ian Primus
ian_primus(a)yahoo.com
On Monday, October 28, 2002, at 08:16 PM, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
I need to locate a source and price quote(s) for
the PF1 keytop for a VT100,
OR a VT100 keyboard,
OR a VT100 with keyboard.
Our college administration dumpstered a bunch of stuff. They screwed
up
and dumpstered some stuff that was personal property! They have
returned
my VT100, but it is now missing a key. I am going to try to make them
make good on it.
To be honest, lately I only use it as a visual aid for explaining the
development of the internet, what characters were present for
development
of programming languages, etc. Therefore, it doesn't even have to
really
work, and I'd be willing to trade my working one for a dead one that
has a
complete keyboard.
--
Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com
XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
5:59 p.m.
New subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key
Sark wrote:
On a similar note, my VT100 is missing the
"Setup" key. Does anyone
know where replacement keys can be found?
Jerome Fine replies:
Is the Setup key working and just missing the plastic top?
If Fred only needs the PF1 key, you can have the Setup
key.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
29 Oct
29 Oct
1:48 p.m.
New subject: Wanted: VT100 PF1 key
Yeah, all I need is the plastic key top. The key works fine.
Thanks!
Ian Primus
ian_primus(a)yahoo.com
On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 12:01 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Sark wrote:
On a similar note, my VT100 is missing the
"Setup" key. Does anyone
know where replacement keys can be found?
Jerome Fine replies:
Is the Setup key working and just missing the plastic top?
If Fred only needs the PF1 key, you can have the Setup
key.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
8:07 p.m.
vance(a)neurotica.com wrote:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
2.5 meg sounds more reasinable
for early HD's even if not
used in IBM's.
Err, there never was a 2Mbyte hard drive. IIRC,
the smallest one IBM ever
shipped was 10Mbytes (and was an ST412 in disguise).
IBM definitely shipped a 5MB. Never heard of a 2MB. 
8:13 p.m.
ben franchuk wrote:
vance(a)neurotica.com wrote:
I have never heard of a 2.5 MB HD for anything on the PC or S-100 era
systems. On the other hand, my Northstar Horizon (~1979 or so) has a 5
MB HD installed on it. I don't remember exactly, but I believe the
Vector 4 also had a 5 MB HD.
IBM definitely shipped a 5MB. Never heard of a
2MB.
2.5 meg sounds more reasinable for early HD's even if not
used in IBM's.
29 Oct
29 Oct
2:14 p.m.
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8:35 a.m.
New subject: IBM 2 MB hard drive (was Re: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY)
Tony wrote:
Err, there never was a 2Mbyte hard drive. IIRC, the
smallest one IBM
ever shipped was 10Mbytes (and was an ST412 in disguise).
Sridhar wrote:
IBM definitely shipped a 5MB. Never heard of a 2MB.
The IBM 1311 was a 2 MB hard drive using removable media.
9:11 a.m.
New subject: IBM 2 MB hard drive (was Re: IBM 5150 brings $910 on EBAY)
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Eric Smith wrote:
The IBM 1311 was a 2 MB hard drive using removable
media.
But it was never standard equipment for an IBM XT (as claimed on the
machine at the Commodore users group booth, which also claimed to have
been 2MHz)
28 Oct
28 Oct
5:56 p.m.
On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
I've heard of an IBM 5M
(ST506?), but the normal drive for an XT was 10.
I don't think that ANY statement made about that machine was correct.
It was NOT "original", as the only parts from IBM were the case (from two
different models).
It was NOT "IBM", as the only parts from IBM were the case (from two
different models).
It was arguably an "XT", as that's what kind of generic motherboard was in
it.
But it was in a nice white painted wooden cart.
OTOH, earlier
today, I saw a computer that was labeled as being "Original
IBM XT in great condition"
It also said that it originally had a 2MB drive, but now had 21MB.
Err, there
never was a 2Mbyte hard drive. IIRC, the smallest one IBM ever
shipped was 10Mbytes (and was an ST412 in disguise). It also said
that it originally had been 2 MHz, now 10 MHz.
Again, as we all know, the original
PC/XT motherboard clocked the
processor at 4.77MHz. 
1:49 p.m.
On 27 Oct 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote:
It is not unusual to find a PC in good condition as
they hold up very
well. I can put together the same machine (in as good or better
condition) in an afternoon after placing a few phone calls. These
machines and parts are out there - everywhere. There is nothing special
about that PC, and I don't think it's value will appreciate to the
stratospheric levels that some other machines have. Or maybe I'm wrong
and the tide has turned (as observed in this auction.)
It's temporary. Once more and more IBM PC's start to get drug out of
closets and garages and put up for auction to reap hundreds of dollars,
the auction prices will fall.
The same thing has happened to so many other common computers before. It
is a perceived rarity because many people only collect on auction sites
and are myopic otherwise. Once the auctions get flooded with the same
item, then the "rarity" factor is reduced.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
4:52 p.m.
"The same thing has happened to so many other
common computers before. It
is a perceived rarity because many people only collect on auction sites
and are myopic otherwise. Once the auctions get flooded with the same
item, then the "rarity" factor is reduced".
Perhaps... On the other hand, there was a lady that dumped a stash of about
50 Intel C8008 processors on EBAY about a year ago. For several months the
price being paid for C8008's on EBAY dropped from $150 to $19.95. Then she
finally ran out of them and the price has since slowly climbed back up and a
few weeks ago,
an Intel C8008 in "like new" condition brought about $150. Speaking of
chip collecting
(which some here tend to frown on), the general trend of higher prices on
EBAY continues. Perhaps it's just my imagination, but the prices being paid
for Altair 8800's and IMSAI 8080's on EBAY also seem to have bottomed and
are going back up again.
I do know that a number of new web sites dedicated to chip collecting has
popped up lately, including one with nice a forum for buying and trading
vintage chips.
In fact, a number of auctions for rare vintage chips ended tonight where
chips
brought over $100.
For example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1773839528
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1773826658
It is strange, but a a alot of people who would not consider buying a
vintage
computer think nothing of buying and collecting vintage microchips. These
people
tend to be younger computer enthusiasts who would not know what to do with
an
Altair 8800 if they had one. They do however appreciate the historical
value
of early microchips, especially processors.
I on the otherhand, keep getting this urge to get a vintage machine simply
for
the challenge of restoring it and making it work. This urge has gotten
especially
intense since I purchased an Altair 8800 Rev. 0 CPU Card because I wanted
the Intel
C8080 CPU that was on it. I keep thinking, "If I just had a machine to put
this card in". However, I am not a hardware guru. My background in is
software and not the kind of software that runs on an Altair 8800 either. I
doubt I would have the technical expertise to make it work.
-- Original Message -----
From: "Sellam Ismail" <foo(a)siconic.com On 27 Oct 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote:
Festival
It is not unusual to find a PC in good condition
as they hold up very
well. I can put together the same machine (in as good or better
condition) in an afternoon after placing a few phone calls. These
machines and parts are out there - everywhere. There is nothing special
about that PC, and I don't think it's value will appreciate to the
stratospheric levels that some other machines have. Or maybe I'm wrong
and the tide has turned (as observed in this auction.)
It's temporary. Once more and more IBM PC's start to get drug out of
closets and garages and put up for auction to reap hundreds of dollars,
the auction prices will fall.
The same thing has happened to so many other common computers before. It
is a perceived rarity because many people only collect on auction sites
and are myopic otherwise. Once the auctions get flooded with the same
item, then the "rarity" factor is reduced.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com *
7:10 p.m.
On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, John Galt wrote:
Gosh, I'm glad I went ahead and picked up the half dozen 8008s one of my
local parts dealers had. I certainly didn't pay that much for them. Good
thing he doesn't know what they bring on ebay ;) (actually, I doubt he
would care, those chips had been in his inventory for ~20+ years.)
"The same
thing has happened to so many other common computers before.
It is a perceived rarity because many people only collect on auction
sites and are myopic otherwise. Once the auctions get flooded with
the same item, then the "rarity" factor is reduced".
Perhaps... On the other hand, there was a lady that dumped a stash of
about 50 Intel C8008 processors on EBAY about a year ago. For several
months the price being paid for C8008's on EBAY dropped from $150 to
$19.95. Then she finally ran out of them and the price has since slowly
climbed back up and a few weeks ago, an Intel C8008 in "like new"
condition brought about $150. Speaking of chip collecting (which some
here tend to frown on), the general trend of higher prices on EBAY
continues. Perhaps it's just my imagination, but the prices being paid
for Altair 8800's and IMSAI 8080's on EBAY also seem to have bottomed
and are going back up again. I do know that a number of new web sites
dedicated to chip collecting has popped up lately, including one with
nice a forum for buying and trading vintage chips. In fact, a number of auctions for rare vintage chips
ended tonight where
chips brought over $100.
I wonder now if I should go ahead and buy up all the other 808x stuff I
know about?
-Toth
4:29 a.m.
Innfogra(a)aol.com wrote:
I would say that the three original manuals and the DOS
SW contributes
mightily to the value to collectors.
When Items like this sell for such high values I notice they usually include
the original Software and manuals. Often they have the original boxes.
Also condition is very important to collectors. This one purports to be in
near perfect condition which is somewhat rare in its own right.
Paxton
Astoria, OR
Also included CP/M-86 and UCSD P-system IV.0. NIB on the latter.
Still way, way more than I'd pay for it.
jbdigriz
7934
days inactive
7936
days old
20 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
gmphillips＠earthlink.net -
ian_primus＠yahoo.com -
Innfogra＠aol.com -
jbdigriz＠dragonsweb.org -
jhfinepw4z＠compsys.to -
jingber＠ix.netcom.com -
jss＠subatomix.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
tothwolf＠concentric.net -
vance＠neurotica.com