22 Nov
2016
22 Nov
'16
1:47 a.m.
From: Josh Dersch
The 11/40 is mostly working ... but I've been
unable to boot anything
(like XXDP, for example).
What are you trying to boot from?
Slot 9 of the CPU backplane is supposed to be an SPC
slot but it
doesn't seem to work
Missing/hard-wired BG/NPG jumpers on that slot, maybe?
If not, plug one of Guy's UA11's into that slot, and see what's up! :-)
I assumed I needed the KJ11-A because the KT11-D
manual specifies
(bottom of page 2-1): "When the KT11-D Memory Management Option is
added to an existing PDP-11 system, the KJ11-A Stack Limit Register
Option must also be added." So I assumed the MMU required this option
be present...
Hmm, I didn't recall that; not sure I ever knew that! (Sorry!)
I spent a short time looking at the KT11-D and KJ11-A prints, trying to see
exactly what the KT11-D wanted, but I wasn't able (yet) to fully grok the
interaction.
From the KJ11-A prints, you can probably work around
not having a KJ11-A card
by strapping the relevant outputs high or low (as the case
might be), i.e.
simulating a KJ11-A which is not reporting a problem. Like I said, V6 doesn't
use the SLR for anything, so it's it's not actually working (i.e. reporting
stack transgressions), no biggie.
If you're determined, I did scan in a KJ11's PCB, so it would probably be
possible to produce 'after-marked' ones - it's not a very complicated card.
> You will also need the KE11-E (M7238), as the Unix
C compiler emits
> MUL, DIV etc, and even the bootstrap uses them. The KE11-F (M7239) is
> useless; the V6 Unix C compiler doesn't generate that type of PDP-11
> floating point.
Yeah, that might be harder to find, I'd forgotten
about that
requirement. I suppose I could run Ultrix-11 instead (I have that on my
11/34 at the moment) as it'll run sans floating point hardware,
We seem to be having a communication failure. You don't need floating point
to run V6 or V7 on an 11/40. In addition, the hardware floating point
hardware on the 11/40 (the FIS) is a variety that Unix doesn't support anyway
(in the sense of, the C compiler doesn't generate FIS instructions).
It's the Exteded Instruction Set (EIS) card (which supports MUL, DIV, ASHC,
etc) which is necessary. No way UNIX (of any flavour) will run without those
instuctions (and thus, that card). If you don't have an M7238, start
looking....
BTW, what is your mass storage device? RL's? If so, vanilla V6 doesn't support
RL's, but I do have a V6 RL driver, I can either build you a system that will
run on an RL, or (if you bring up V6 under an emulator, so you can build
systems, etc) provide it so you can add it. You'll also need an RL bootstrap
(again, those are available, but not in vanilla V6).
Also, how are you getting the bits onto the mass storage? V6 can only be
'cold installed' onto a blank machine from a TM11 or TM02 tape drive. Failing
that, you have to put a V6 filesystem onto a disk on some other machine. Do
you have the ability to write packs on another machine/OS, and the ability to
get a Unix file system onto that system? Failing that, I'm in the process of
getting VTServer working to transfer V6 over a serial line to a blank machine
(my situation) - I got distracted before I got 100% finished, but I have it
all scoped out, and can get it done in a couple of hours from where I am now.
Noel
22 Nov
22 Nov
3:19 a.m.
On 11/21/16 5:47 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
I've tried an emulated TU58 and (most
recently) a UNIBUS SCSI controller
that I'm fortunate enough to have.
The NPG jumper on slot 9 is
not present, and it has no effect on the NPG
chain if i jumper it or not (the bus seems happy otherwise...) There
appears to be no continuity between CA1/CB1 of slot 9 and CA1/CB1 of the
SPC/MUD slots in the rest of the system. It's very puzzling. I need to
sit down with the wire list (and copious Excedrin) and probe things out.
Sorry, sorry -- long day and it's been awhile since I looked at the
11/40 in depth (just dusted it off last night). I thought I had picked
up an EIS years ago shortly after I picked up the machine but either my
memory is faulty or it's disappeared somewhere (the former is more
likely at this point, I actually do have things somewhat organized
here). So that adds another level of fun.
Maybe at this point I should be happy to get RT-11 working :).
From: Josh
Dersch
The 11/40 is mostly working ... but I've been
unable to boot anything
(like XXDP, for example).
What are you trying to boot from? Slot 9 of the CPU backplane is supposed to be an
SPC slot but it
doesn't seem to work
Missing/hard-wired BG/NPG jumpers on that slot, maybe?
If not, plug one of Guy's UA11's into that slot, and see what's up! :-)
Thanks for looking into it. I'm not desperate for a KJ11 yet, but it's
good to have resources should one need to be built...
I assumed I needed the KJ11-A because the KT11-D
manual specifies
(bottom of page 2-1): "When the KT11-D Memory Management Option is
added to an existing PDP-11 system, the KJ11-A Stack Limit Register
Option must also be added." So I assumed the MMU required this option
be present...
Hmm, I didn't recall that; not sure I ever knew that! (Sorry!)
I spent a short time looking at the KT11-D and KJ11-A prints, trying to see
exactly what the KT11-D wanted, but I wasn't able (yet) to fully grok the
interaction.
From the KJ11-A prints, you can probably work
around not having a KJ11-A card
by strapping the relevant outputs high or low (as
the case might be), i.e.
simulating a KJ11-A which is not reporting a problem. Like I said, V6 doesn't
use the SLR for anything, so it's it's not actually working (i.e. reporting
stack transgressions), no biggie.
If you're determined, I did scan in a KJ11's PCB, so it would probably be
possible to produce 'after-marked' ones - it's not a very complicated card.
> You will also need the KE11-E (M7238), as the
Unix C compiler emits
> MUL, DIV etc, and even the bootstrap uses them. The KE11-F (M7239) is
> useless; the V6 Unix C compiler doesn't generate that type of PDP-11
> floating point.
Yeah, that might be harder to find, I'd
forgotten about that
requirement. I suppose I could run Ultrix-11 instead (I have that on my
11/34 at the moment) as it'll run sans floating point hardware,
We seem to be having a communication failure. You don't need floating point
to run V6 or V7 on an 11/40. In addition, the hardware floating point
hardware on the 11/40 (the FIS) is a variety that Unix doesn't support anyway
(in the sense of, the C compiler doesn't generate FIS instructions).
It's the Exteded Instruction Set (EIS) card (which supports MUL, DIV, ASHC,
etc) which is necessary. No way UNIX (of any flavour) will run without those
instuctions (and thus, that card). If you don't have an M7238, start
looking....
BTW, what is your mass storage device? RL's? If so, vanilla V6 doesn't support
RL's, but I do have a V6 RL driver, I can either build you a system that will
run on an RL, or (if you bring up V6 under an emulator, so you can build
systems, etc) provide it so you can add it. You'll also need an RL bootstrap
(again, those are available, but not in vanilla V6).
Also, how are you getting the bits onto the mass storage? V6 can only be
'cold installed' onto a blank machine from a TM11 or TM02 tape drive. Failing
that, you have to put a V6 filesystem onto a disk on some other machine. Do
you have the ability to write packs on another machine/OS, and the ability to
get a Unix file system onto that system? Failing that, I'm in the process of
getting VTServer working to transfer V6 over a serial line to a blank machine
(my situation) - I got distracted before I got 100% finished, but I have it
all scoped out, and can get it done in a couple of hours from where I am now.
I have an RK11 and an RK05 (with the option of a 2nd RK05 if I ever get
some mounting rails for it.) I know the RK05s are tight storage-wise. I
also have an RL02 but I need to repair an RL11 first. (And there's
always the SCSI controller, should I get up the nerve to backport an
MSCP driver...) I should be able to wrangle bits onto media either using
what I have, or by using stuff at the LCM, but the VTServer option
sounds nice too. The RL bootstrap and driver would be very useful to
have, thanks!
Thanks again,
Josh
Noel
2959
days inactive
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days old
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