12 Jun
2001
12 Jun
'01
9:31 p.m.
I've updated the cw2dmk program to version 1.6. This is a program that
uses the Catweasel ISA disk controller to read disk formats that are hard
or impossible to read with an ordinary PC floppy disk controller. The
new version adds a few features, among them the ability to read the DEC
RX02 double density format. See http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html
Source code is included under the GPL, so those who prefer to build their
own hardware instead of buying a Catweasel (let's not start *that* debate
again) may find it of some use too.
Tim Mann tim.mann(a)compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org
Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA
14 Jun
14 Jun
4:03 p.m.
tim.mann(a)compaq.com wrote:
I've updated the cw2dmk program to version 1.6.
This is a program that
uses the Catweasel ISA disk controller to read disk formats that are hard
or impossible to read with an ordinary PC floppy disk controller. The
new version adds a few features, among them the ability to read the DEC
RX02 double density format. See http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html
Jerome Fine replies:
When you mentioned the Catweasel ISA disk controller and compared it to an
ordinary PC floppy disk controller, it sounds like you are suggesting that
it can run on an ordinary PC? Am I correct in this assumption? If so,
is a special driver also required or does the cw2dmk program do everything?
Also, a rather important question, which floppy drive is used?
I understand that no ordinary PC floppy disk controller/drive drive is able to
read/write the DEC RX02 "double density format" since it is really only a
single density header followed by double density data - or something similar.
It is my understanding that there were third party Qbus controllers which
used Calcomp 8" floppy drives and that even the DEC RX02 controller
could use the Calcomp drive and be double sided. Is that possible with
the cw2dmk program, namely is an 8" RX03 double-density double-sided
(DSDD) floppy possible?
Source code is included under the GPL, so those who
prefer to build their
own hardware instead of buying a Catweasel (let's not start *that* debate
again) may find it of some use too.
Since I am not a hardware type, where can I find the Catweasel controller and
a floppy drive so I can read 8" floppy RX02 diskettes on the PC - assuming
that my understanding is correct? And please also help with my question as
to DSDD floppies since more than half of my 8" floppies are DSDD - I used
a DSD 880/30 (Data Systems Design) system on my PDP-11 Qbus system
and modified the driver under RT-11 to also use the other side of the floppy
in the DYX.SYS device driver as well as adding a bounce buffer so that DYX.SYS
could be used under the 22 bit address range of the V5.0x versions of RT-11.
Thanks in advance for any help. I use the PC that I have available to me most of
the time now when I run RT-11, so being able to access the 8" floppies would be
a big plus if this is possible.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
6:14 p.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
[Ok, here is the "announcement" of VUNIC/VUnet, which is my
effort to provide information and resources to get folks
connecting to each other via UUCP. It just seems natural that
we should connect our vintage computers with vintage networking.
I want to act as a facilitator to help make that happen.
Am I an expert at UUCP? Certainly not. That's why I'm
going to ask, as I get this project underway, for every little
shred of help I can get from those of you who ARE experts.
(I've set up UUCP clients and servers, mind you, but I'm by
no means an expert like many of you.)
Software, documentation, information, hints, tips, suggestions,
configuration assistance and moral support are all welcome.
I'll provide more information as things progress.]
June 14, 2001
-------------------------------------------------------------
ANNOUNCING THE VINTAGE UUCP NETWORK INFORMATION CENTER
-------------------------------------------------------------
TERMINOLOGY
VUNIC - Vintage UUCP Network Information Center
VUnet - Vintage UUCP Network
PURPOSE
[Some of this text is shamelessly copied from
http://www.uucp.org, the original site for The UUCP Mapping
Project.]
VUNIC is being started as a means to facilitate the exchange
of electronic mail, news and file transfers among vintage
computer collectors, restorers and preservations using the
UUCP store-and-forward transport mechanism. UUCP software,
originally part of the UNIX operating system became
available on a variety of operating systems and platforms,
from large mainframes to small home PC's. RFC 976
was
created to define the email format for these messages and
made it possible to shorten and simplify addressing for
UUCP-transported messages.
VUNIC's mission is to recreate a single worldwide database
of vintage systems connected to each other via UUCP and then using
path building software (such as pathalias) to determine the
optimal path from one system to another. Email addresses
using this system incorporate the use of the path as part
of the address. The UUCP Mapping Project, which concluded
at the end of 2000, is the model upon which VUNIC will be
built.
In addition, VUNIC will provide a web site with software
and documentation for building UUCP clients and servers
on vintage computer platforms as well as modern systems
to be used as Internet/VUnet gateways.
RESOURCES
VUNIC will operate a website and FTP server at
http://vunic.retrocomputing.com (coming soon)
for the purpose of distributing news, documentation and
software of interest to VUNIC/VUnet users.
VUnet will operate both dialup and Internet connected
UUCP servers for the purpose of facilitating transport
of mail, news and files for those who are unable to find
another method by which to connect.
INSTIGATOR(S)
VUNIC is the product of the twisted brain of Anthony
Clifton, retrocomputerist, unix system administrator and
general weirdo. You can find Anthony on the web at
http://www.iowanetworking.com or via email at
clifton(a)iowanetworking.com.
15 Jun
15 Jun
11:42 a.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
Wow, what a great announcement! Well done! Count me in as being
interested in getting a UUCP connection set up again; not sure which
machine I'll choose for this... perhaps my AT&T 3B1 which has HDB UUCP
or my old Sun 3/60 which I'd like to bring back to life.
Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is
the name that my machines once used?
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote:
Software, documentation, information, hints, tips,
suggestions,
configuration assistance and moral support are all welcome.
The best hint that I can think of is to tell you to get the O'Reilly
book on UUCP; I found it to be extremely helpful.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
11:57 a.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
--- "R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)smart.net> wrote:
Wow, what a great announcement! Well done! Count me in as being
interested in getting a UUCP connection set up again;
Me, too.
Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in
your UUCP map, which is
the name that my machines once used?
I'd like to keep using "kumiss" - originally an Amiga 1000, later an
Amiga 3000, running from c. 1987 through 1996. It will probably be
my in-house serial<->Ethernet gateway since I make Amiga products and
have lots of spares on the shelf.
-ethan
=====
Visit "The Seventh Continent"
http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
3:54 p.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
Quoting Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com>om>:
Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but
darnit, this will be fun and educational.
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)ou.edu
Can you kindly
reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map
I'd like to keep using "kumiss" 
4:34 p.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in
your UUCP map
I'd like to keep using "kumiss" 
16 Jun
16 Jun
8:02 a.m.
New subject: Further thoughts on VUNIC [was Re: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet]
On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Eric Dittman wrote:
Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but
darnit, this will be fun and educational.
I'd like "narnia", which is my old UUCP node name.
It sounds like VUNIC/VUnet will need to implement a central name
registration service as one of its first tasks :-)
Might I suggest that as part of this name registration database, people
also record their ICBM coordinates. This way, not only can we define a
logical structure for the UUCP network, but we can project it onto a
physical map as well.
Another big question which arises is what will the topology of the network
be like? At least as far as TCP/IP connected nodes are concerned. Back in
the original days of UUCP, this was significantly influenced by the costs
of local and toll phone charges. You'd want to minimize the phone service
costs by connecting to the least expensive site for your UUCP feed.
With TCP/IP internet access, it now becomes equally cheap to connect to
any other TCP/IP based VUNIC site. So which path do you choose? Or does
that even matter? I first got onto the net in 1989. UUCP was still in
wide use, but by the time I got fairly sophisticated in my net knowledge,
TCP/IP had almost completely displaced UUCP as a means for pushing data
around.
I do thing it would be very smart, and perhaps immensely useful later,
to register node info in some sort of central repository with replication
abilities. I would strongly suggest something LDAP based, like say the
UMich OpenLDAP server. And then for older systems without support for the
LDAP client API, we could perhaps design some lighter-weight means by
which they can access the same information stored in an LDAP server.
Types of information which I think would be useful to record for each node
would include things like the following:
* Unique site name
* Unique site ID#
* ID(s) of sites upstream to which you can connect.
* Latitude/longitude coordinates
* Whether the node supports TCP/IP connectivity and at what speed.
* Dialup phone number(s) by which the site is accessible.
(Maybe broken down into subfields which include country access code,
region code, and then the phone number).
* (Packet radio specific information?)
With some of this information, it should be possible to dynamically
structure the maps in such a way that the highest speed TCP/IP based sites
can form a "backbone" for traffic.
Okay, so it's maybe overkill for how our traffic would be taxing things :-)
Hey, isn't UUCP considered peer-to-peer networking?
-brian.
Can you kindly
reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map
I'd like to keep using "kumiss" 
3:15 p.m.
New subject: Further thoughts on VUNIC [was Re: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet]
On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Eric Dittman wrote:
It sounds like VUNIC/VUnet will need to implement a
central name
registration service as one of its first tasks :-)
Might I suggest that as part of this name registration database, people
also record their ICBM coordinates. This way, not only can we define a
logical structure for the UUCP network, but we can project it onto a
physical map as well.
Yup... this was done on the old UUCP maps as well.
Another big question which arises is what will the topology of the network
be like? At least as far as TCP/IP connected nodes are concerned. Back in
the original days of UUCP, this was significantly influenced by the costs
of local and toll phone charges. You'd want to minimize the phone service
costs by connecting to the least expensive site for your UUCP feed.
We need regional hub like systems with TCP/IP and dial-up connectivity
to route the traffic over the internet to save $$$.
With TCP/IP internet access, it now becomes equally cheap to connect to
any other TCP/IP based VUNIC site. So which path do you choose? Or does
that even matter? I first got onto the net in 1989. UUCP was still in
wide use, but by the time I got fairly sophisticated in my net knowledge,
TCP/IP had almost completely displaced UUCP as a means for pushing data
around.
I think we need to revisit the use of the old map making utilities
which routed
pechter(a)i4got.uucp to ihnp4!decvax!pyramid!pyred!pyrnj!pyrite!pechter.
Types of information which I think would be useful to record for each node
would include things like the following:
* Unique site name
* Unique site ID#
* ID(s) of sites upstream to which you can connect.
* Latitude/longitude coordinates
* Whether the node supports TCP/IP connectivity and at what speed.
* Dialup phone number(s) by which the site is accessible.
(Maybe broken down into subfields which include country access code,
region code, and then the phone number).
* (Packet radio specific information?)
With some of this information, it should be possible to dynamically
structure the maps in such a way that the highest speed TCP/IP based sites
can form a "backbone" for traffic.
Okay, so it's maybe overkill for how our traffic would be taxing things :-)
Hey, isn't UUCP considered peer-to-peer networking?
Nope... it's all necessary and Peter Honeyman, I think, did all the
utilities we need... Just got to web search up and rebuild them.
I used to have a full map set in place on a machine with 3mb of memory
and 80mb of disk. Took a couple of hours to generate the map
which looked something like this in text form.
(Anyone remember the name for the map programs to generate this stuff...
I'm embarrased to say I forgot the names and stuff.)
i4got: decvax!pyred!pyrnj!pyrite!i4got
Sure is peer-to-peer. Supports email, remote printing, remote job
execution, file transfer... pretty slick for stuff that did it all over
RS232 and often slow modems.
-brian.
Bill
---
Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a
villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
6:56 p.m.
New subject: Further thoughts on VUNIC [was Re: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet]
[For those who wish I'd just get to the point, please feel free to skip to
PART 2.]
PART 1
Geez, I had no idea there'd be so much interest in this!
In fact, I'm becoming concerned that we may be off-topicing classiccmp
too much.
I can easily set up a mailing list just for VUNIC/VUnet and then we could
post monthly updates to classiccmp to reduce list load the list.
My other thought is that the folks at the UUCP Mapping Project offered to
let me take it over if I would maintain the map database GLOBALLY.
With as many knowledgeable folks as there are around here, maybe that
isn't entirely unreasonable.
It seems like a public service that we, as vintage computer collectors, could
do for the 'general public' (if you can call uucp nodes that) to generate
interest and good feelings for us.
In addition, it's a nice useful thing to do with vintage or scrounged hardware.
PART 2
SO what I'm going to is draft some Articles for VUNIC/VUnet and then locate
people to specific tasks. Of course, I'll be at the top of the food chain.
=-D
But I'm a very benevolent dictator. ;-D I also give credit where credit is
do and am not into taking all the glory for myself. =)
At any rate, I'm planning on officially beginning this process on July 1 when
I put the web site online.
In the meantime, if you'd (meaning anyone) would like to help with specific
tasks and have experience with doing those tasks, please let me know so
I can starting building lines of communication.
Thanks! I'm VERY excited to see this becoming a reality.
Anthony Clifton
Okay, so
it's maybe overkill for how our traffic would be taxing things :-)
Hey, isn't UUCP considered peer-to-peer networking?
Nope... it's all necessary and Peter Honeyman, I think, did all the
utilities we need... Just got to web search up and rebuild them.
I used to have a full map set in place on a machine with 3mb of memory
and 80mb of disk. Took a couple of hours to generate the map
which looked something like this in text form.
(Anyone remember the name for the map programs to generate this stuff...
I'm embarrased to say I forgot the names and stuff.)
i4got: decvax!pyred!pyrnj!pyrite!i4got
Sure is peer-to-peer. Supports email, remote printing, remote job
execution, file transfer... pretty slick for stuff that did it all over
RS232 and often slow modems. 
15 Jun
15 Jun
5:01 p.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in
your UUCP map
I'd like to keep using "kumiss" 
16 Jun
16 Jun
8:01 a.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in
your UUCP map
I'd like to keep using "kumiss" 
11:03 a.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
I'd like 'tempest'. BTW, has anyone actually started constructing
a map?
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
12:12 p.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
I'd like 'tempest'. BTW, has anyone
actually started constructing
a map?
I haven't even figured out how to configure uucpd! :-)
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- A witty saying proves nothing. -- Voltaire ---------------------------------
3:06 p.m.
New subject: UUCP -- uucpd (for those interested in the source code)
I'd like
'tempest'. BTW, has anyone actually started constructing
a map?
I haven't even figured out how to configure uucpd! :-)
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu From /etc/inetd.conf -- FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE
uucpd stream tcp nowait root /usr/libexec/uucpd uucpd
Bill
Here's the source code for FreeBSD's uucpd -- which should be fairly
portable. I normally wouldn't send it to the whole group
but it's very small.
The rest of uucp can be picked up from the gnu sites.
I'm willing to help with the mapping project and to act
as a resource to help people get uucp up.
I've done it under DOS, SysV, BSD, Linux, Coherent, OS/2...
I've only done it over TCP/IP with Unixlike systems.
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MG&(I0E-$?G%'!+@-+W!":S:S)+-%2?9?4F;+ARC_@'DL\H#G!8UQ"2GMA4)B
MMN"_>L5SH$!O[EP_9?R)@KO`]9)U>BZ0NI1PG)E:VY/4YOI2LN2,LDR=-F^'
MKUY1:HKTR"N[Z-AY@$SFQ],5HE(ZJ1+A)(WG[98?#81[R)L?=VN_Y6Q>Q.DC
MVE;DH!>1G-A>*BU<D66:0/<<G_[B$4(M>H$_+84R%+.C@%RV1?_-`ZHJOQ/8
MU$D\"4R`U(a)/]/TOB./X?X?9Y\"VT6\&,>/8CS,C[[RN$<1*!3/`O=1NTDIU&
MYW3[J'`R)])=-(F-[-*RK_`HF2;B#3B]%O;=?Z;BXPFVD22YY3KR]O6`3P@U
M8+$HE:2&Q1>9@O-B.$'N=.8HBN[<;9DC+`]EZ)\/.Q^&)=Y\LP`0=O>L.$'?
M@.>1Q`7/JW@>ITG!.K<?3L2,714G*$LPF9PGI47)PA"0!EPF6<)#SKFICW@<
MB3.VH"[4HW]7IH0_EI%U020$?^?-N`2B")7@!15&Z07/RZ\5Q[:);$;+0;Q4
5I)=8?=E\/M]<:[S^#Z.#W0$`4```
`
end
---
Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a
villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
12:30 p.m.
New subject: VUNIC/VUnet Update
I'm going to begin constructing a map in about two weeks when I really get
going on this. I have some equipment pickups over the next week or so of
some Sun equipment, some Microvaxen and some basement cleanup I'm
working on.
After that, I'm going to put up the web page, which will have an interface
to the map database, name registration forms, etc.
The thing will be dirt simple and ugly but we won't let that trouble us. =)
In the meantime, I'm reserving names on a first-come-first-served basis.
I may have to come back to folks and collect further information so the
database will be compatible with the UUCP Mapping Project databases,
which they discontinued last year.
One concern I have is that, even though I've stated that my purpose is
primarily to help Vintage computer collectors, that the general UUCP
will want me to maintain a GLOBAL map. I'm not opposed to this but I'd
need ALOT of help to keep it up to date, etc. Or maybe not.
But, sometimes, if you build it, then will come.
Anthony Clifton
Des Moines, Iowa
I'd like 'tempest'. BTW, has anyone
actually started constructing
a map?
--
Chris Kennedy
17 Jun
17 Jun
6:05 a.m.
New subject: VUNIC/VUnet Update
...on Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 04:30:45PM -0500, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote:
In the meantime, I'm reserving names on a
first-come-first-served basis.
Well then... The old Mercury/UUCP installation on the
Atari still has the name "traveller" in it's configs.
(That's nine chars, but it's never made any problems
for anyone?)
I assume there's no problem with long system names in
uucp as long as you don't insist on the names being
equivalent to the logins with uucico as shell (and then
most TCP/IP based uucp connections will probably use
uucpd instead of system logins anyway).
One concern I have is that, even though I've
stated that my purpose is
primarily to help Vintage computer collectors, that the general UUCP
will want me to maintain a GLOBAL map. I'm not opposed to this but I'd
need ALOT of help to keep it up to date, etc. Or maybe not.
Just ask if you need help :)
Alex.
18 Jun
18 Jun
7:43 p.m.
New subject: VUNIC/VUnet Update
"Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" wrote:
The thing will be dirt simple and ugly but we
won't let that trouble us. =)
just do it the original way and it'll be fine.
In the meantime, I'm reserving names on a
first-come-first-served basis.
I'll take "phicus" (tho don't believe others would claim that name
before me.)
I may have to come back to folks and collect further
information so the
database will be compatible with the UUCP Mapping Project databases,
which they discontinued last year.
One concern I have is that, even though I've stated that my purpose is
primarily to help Vintage computer collectors, that the general UUCP
will want me to maintain a GLOBAL map. I'm not opposed to this but I'd
need ALOT of help to keep it up to date, etc. Or maybe not.
Well, only vintage people will use UUCP these days to communicate
globally. I have three more thoughts:
1) Evi Nemeth, Unix System Administration Handbook contains a chapter
on uucp. That book is a book to have anyway.
2) The manual pages on uucp(1), uux(1), and uucico(8) are right there
in evey good BSD installation.
3) Last time I looked into my sendmail.cf file, I found mention of
a uucp relay, don't know where that has gone.
4) I guess the real fun of uucp is if we do this using dialup modems.
5) Is there UUCP for the Commodore 64?
6) If what you're really interested in is just another network, you
can do the same with TCP/IP using the 10.0.0.0/8 network. Isildur has
started the NX network already.
7) you asked for an archive format, this will be close to impossible
to resolve on a true multi-platform basis, but you don't really care
because most of the files you want to transfer are platform specific
anyway.
-Gunther
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
26 Jun
26 Jun
7:56 p.m.
New subject: VUNIC/VUnet Update
On Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 04:30:45PM -0500, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote:
In the meantime, I'm reserving names on a
first-come-first-served basis.
I suppose "bangbang" would be too confusing... how about "bangpath"
instead? My second choice would be "achernar" (look at the origin
of the word).
-- Derek
16 Jun
16 Jun
3:20 p.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
Can you kindly
reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map
I'd like to keep using "kumiss"
4:07 p.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
> Can you
kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map
I'd like to keep using "kumiss"
Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but
darnit, this will be fun and educational. 
17 Jun
17 Jun
8:36 p.m.
New subject: Precision Echo Phase II/Pilara 2000/TA Royal ???
I picked up a few new computers this weekend, from a really nice guy with an
unbelievable collection. The computers are:
-Basis 108 labeled as a Precision Echo Phase II. This is an over engineered
German Apple II clone but I'm not sure why it was repackaged as a Precision
EP II. I believe that the Basis 108 was a beige color but the PEP II is a
light milk chocolate brown. The thing seems to have been built to double as
granite block -heavy, cast aluminum case (a real back breaker.) Does anyone
have any documentation on this beast?
-Triumph Adler Alphatronic PC (Royal?)I'm sure that many of you are more
familiar with this computer than I am. It looks like a typical Alphatronic
PC except it has the "Royal" label underneath the TA above the keyboard.
This system also as the two F1/F2 floppy drives, and a Royal A60 monitor.
What's the story with this one?
-Pilara 2000 -I haven't been able to find out anything about this butt-ugly
computer. It has a very plain metal case, with an odd 5.25 drive wedged down
in the lower left corner, and a funky keyboard that has a 25pin connector.
Instead of a printer port, it has a typewriter port, and it has a composite
video cable out. It's a 1983 computer that looks like a blind man designed
it. In fact, it makes a Morrow MD3 look like a flashy work of design art
genius. It also has two stacked mainboards (about s100 size) cabled
together, to form a sandwich. Anyone know anything about this weird little
computer. I'm assuming that it's a CP/M machine (what else?) Docs or
software would be a big help on this one.
Thanks.
Ernest
9:21 p.m.
New subject: recent aquisitions
Last monday, we saved a Perkin Elmer 3210. While the unit seems to have
suffered from headcrashes, it seems reasonably complete with a CDC 9762
badged Perkin Elmer. The main cabinet seems to have a section of
covering missing. Would anyone happen to have a picture of an intact 3210?
Yesterday, we took delivery of a Wang VS100 from RCS/RI. They've decided
not to dabble in Wang systems. The VS100 is beautifully made, and it
seems that only one bus is in use. It's fairly big and heavy though. In
a pinch, you could use it as a coffin.
18 Jun
18 Jun
3:10 a.m.
New subject: Precision Echo Phase II/Pilara 2000/TA Royal ???
Royal was owned by Triump Adler. The Alphatronic was sold under the Royal
name in the U.S., and under Triumph Adler in Europe, I believe.
I don't have documentation for the Basis 108, but I do have promotional
literature for it and the Alphatronic. If you like, I'll scan them for you.
--Mike
Michael Nadeau
Editorial Services
603-893-2379
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest" <ernestls(a)home.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 1:36 AM
Subject: Precision Echo Phase II/Pilara 2000/TA Royal ???
I picked up a few new computers this weekend, from a
really nice guy with
an
unbelievable collection. The computers are:
-Basis 108 labeled as a Precision Echo Phase II. This is an over
engineered
German Apple II clone but I'm not sure why it was
repackaged as a
Precision
EP II. I believe that the Basis 108 was a beige color
but the PEP II is a
light milk chocolate brown. The thing seems to have been built to double
as
granite block -heavy, cast aluminum case (a real back
breaker.) Does
anyone
have any documentation on this beast?
-Triumph Adler Alphatronic PC (Royal?)I'm sure that many of you are more
familiar with this computer than I am. It looks like a typical Alphatronic
PC except it has the "Royal" label underneath the TA above the keyboard.
This system also as the two F1/F2 floppy drives, and a Royal A60 monitor.
What's the story with this one?
-Pilara 2000 -I haven't been able to find out anything about this
butt-ugly
computer. It has a very plain metal case, with an odd
5.25 drive wedged
down
in the lower left corner, and a funky keyboard that
has a 25pin connector.
Instead of a printer port, it has a typewriter port, and it has a
composite
video cable out. It's a 1983 computer that looks
like a blind man designed
it. In fact, it makes a Morrow MD3 look like a flashy work of design art
genius. It also has two stacked mainboards (about s100 size) cabled
together, to form a sandwich. Anyone know anything about this weird little
computer. I'm assuming that it's a CP/M machine (what else?) Docs or
software would be a big help on this one.
Thanks.
Ernest
15 Jun
15 Jun
12:34 p.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in
your UUCP map, which is
the name that my machines once used?
Dibs on "stockholm" when I get this thing running.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- They make a desert and call it peace. -- Tacitus ---------------------------
1:05 p.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
Rumor has it that Cameron Kaiser may have mentioned these words:
I'd like to reserve "zmerch" as that's been my UserID for nearly 20
years..... ;-)
Thanks, and if I ever get the time, I'll set up a node myself... (I run an
ISP, but time is usually short...)
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
Can you kindly
reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is
the name that my machines once used?
Dibs on "stockholm" when I get this thing running. 
16 Jun
16 Jun
7:54 a.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
I want "ikickass". 8-)
Peace... Sridhar
On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Can you kindly
reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is
the name that my machines once used?
Dibs on "stockholm" when I get this thing running.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- They make a desert and call it peace. -- Tacitus ---------------------------
18 Jun
18 Jun
5:17 a.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Especially if people are planning on using vintage machines and vintage
versions of UUCP, names need to be kept to 8 characters or less. At least
that's what I remember.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
Can you kindly
reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is
the name that my machines once used?
Dibs on "stockholm" when I get this thing running.
6:06 a.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in
your UUCP map, which is
the name that my machines once used?
Dibs on "stockholm" when I get this thing running.
10:53 a.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
If I patented a function that returned the set of all 8 character or fewer
strings, would you all have to pay royalties to me?
-brian.
Especially if
people are planning on using vintage machines and vintage
versions of UUCP, names need to be kept to 8 characters or less. At least
that's what I remember.
Nuts. In that case, "floodgap" :-) 
10:39 a.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote:
If I patented a function that returned the set of all
8 character or
fewer strings, would you all have to pay royalties to me?
Sure, my royalty payment will come in a ticking box :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
11:54 a.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
Especially if people are planning on using vintage
machines and vintage
versions of UUCP, names need to be kept to 8 characters or less. At least
that's what I remember.
Nuts. In that case, "floodgap" :-)
12:15 p.m.
New subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Gee, since when in recent years has "prior art" precluded someone suing
you over intellectual property rights or copyright infringement? ;-)
-brian.
If I patented
a function that returned the set of all 8 character or fewer
strings, would you all have to pay royalties to me?
Only if you generated the one I was going to take before I did. ;-) 
12:50 p.m.
New subject: looking for article from DDJ #68, June '82
Been looking through #69 (thanks Paul!) and Part II of 'PDP-1802' by Chris
Hamlin, a cosmac pdp8 emulator... cool! Can somone copy Part 1 for me?
Thanks!
- Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net
3:45 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
A friend of mine sent this to me, but I don't know if it is valid or a hoax.
*******************
Victor Cardenes, of Spain's leading scientific research body, stumbled
across
the microscopic creature two years ago, while visiting Belize. Friends
complained that in the hot and sticky Central American climate, a CD had
stopped working and had developed an odd discoloration that left parts of it
virtually transparent.
Dr Cardenes and colleagues at the Superior Council for Scientific Research
in
Madrid discovered a fungus was steadily eating through the supposedly
indestructible disc. The fungus had burrowed into the CD from the outer
edge,
then devoured the thin aluminium layer and some of the data-storing
polycarbonate resin.
Dr Cardenes said: "It completely destroys the aluminium. It leaves nothing
behind." Biologists at the council had never seen this fungus, but concluded
that it belonged to a common genus called geotrichum.
Philips, the Dutch electronics company that invented the compact disc, said
it believed the Belize case was probably a freak incident caused by extreme
weather conditions.
3:55 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
A friend of mine sent this to me, but I don't know
if it is valid or a hoax.
It showed up on Slashdot today with a pointer to the following article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=001851641145319&rtmo=lzFklAlt&atmo…
Zane
4:27 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote:
A friend of mine sent this to me, but I don't know
if it is valid or a hoax.
Well, considering that old camera lenses often suffer from fungi, just
as mildew can attack floppies and tapes, it would surprise me not that
CDs can become afflicted with it as well. I wonder if only the
aluminum CDs are the problem, or if those gold CDs from Kodak are also
affected.
Does anyone recall the audiophile debates several years ago that
pertained to something called "CD rot," using that as one reason why
vinyl records were superior for long-term storage. I thought that the
"CD rot" they spoke of only had to do with disintegration of the
plastic and then oxitation of the metal layer.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
4:42 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
Does anyone recall the audiophile debates several years
ago that
pertained to something called "CD rot," using that as one reason why
vinyl records were superior for long-term storage. I thought that the
"CD rot" they spoke of only had to do with disintegration of the
plastic and then oxitation of the metal layer.
I recall those arguments...it was also one of the reasons it
was said that MO disks were superior to CD-R media. As far as I
recall, it was said to also get into the disk by going between the
sandwhich layers and it appeared on an affected disk as black spots.
Couldn't a fungus attach itself to the adhesive used to bond the
various layers of a CD-R? If not a fungus, it certainly seems
reasonable that the aluminum surface could possibly oxidize after a
while.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
7:59 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote:
Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe.
- don
Does anyone
recall the audiophile debates several years ago that
pertained to something called "CD rot," using that as one reason why
vinyl records were superior for long-term storage. I thought that the
"CD rot" they spoke of only had to do with disintegration of the
plastic and then oxitation of the metal layer.
I recall those arguments...it was also one of the reasons it
was said that MO disks were superior to CD-R media. As far as I
recall, it was said to also get into the disk by going between the
sandwhich layers and it appeared on an affected disk as black spots.
Couldn't a fungus attach itself to the adhesive used to bond the
various layers of a CD-R? If not a fungus, it certainly seems
reasonable that the aluminum surface could possibly oxidize after a
while. Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
9:13 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
Don Maslin wrote:
Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe.
Well, it leaves the fungi!
It really depends on what they mean by "nothing". Probably nothing
visible to the naked eye. I always keep in mind that a lot of stories
could be of the standard of a report from News of The World (make it
interesting and damm the truth*), so I will not be investing in an
controlled atmosphere safe to store my CD's in yet.
OTOH, it could just be one of those bad first batch(es) CD's that the
layer's broke down anyway and a fungi has just invaded the space. It all
really need independent, scientific verification from someone with a bit
of knowledge and experience.
*I've lived in Australia for 40 years and never seen a Kangaroo in a
sports coat. Yesterday, we safely went koala tracking and never once did
the mum and babe hiss, spit, bare the claws or doing anything one might
expect of a killer koala. We will be going again as the wife left the
film out of the camera {:-).
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: terryc(a)woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au
WOA Computer Services <lan/wan, linux/unix, novell>
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
19 Jun
19 Jun
2:44 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Terry Collins wrote:
Don Maslin wrote:
I fear that is too often the case.
- don
Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe.
Well, it leaves the fungi!
It really depends on what they mean by "nothing". Probably nothing
visible to the naked eye. I always keep in mind that a lot of stories
could be of the standard of a report from News of The World (make it
interesting and damm the truth*), so I will not be investing in an
controlled atmosphere safe to store my CD's in yet. OTOH, it could just be one of those bad first
batch(es) CD's that the
layer's broke down anyway and a fungi has just invaded the space. It all
really need independent, scientific verification from someone with a bit
of knowledge and experience.
*I've lived in Australia for 40 years and never seen a Kangaroo in a
sports coat. Yesterday, we safely went koala tracking and never once did
the mum and babe hiss, spit, bare the claws or doing anything one might
expect of a killer koala. We will be going again as the wife left the
film out of the camera {:-).
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: terryc(a)woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au
WOA Computer Services <lan/wan, linux/unix, novell>
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
12:35 a.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
I recall those
arguments...it was also one of the reasons it
was said that MO disks were superior to CD-R media. As far as I
recall, it was said to also get into the disk by going between the
sandwhich layers and it appeared on an affected disk as black spots.
Couldn't a fungus attach itself to the adhesive used to bond the
various layers of a CD-R? If not a fungus, it certainly seems
reasonable that the aluminum surface could possibly oxidize after a
while.
Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe. 
5:42 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote:
The original post that started this thread spoke of TRANSPARENT spots
where the aluminium was "gone". Reduces the overall credibility of the
story.
Yes, but
"leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe.
I've never
seen it said that a fungus or whatever did away
with the whole aluminum layer of the CD, just that black splotches
would appear. Even oxidation would leave something behind.
5:43 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote:
The original post that started this thread spoke of TRANSPARENT spots
where the aluminium was "gone". Reduces the overall credibility of the
story.
Yes, but
"leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe.
I've
never seen it said that a fungus or whatever did away
with the whole aluminum layer of the CD, just that black splotches
would appear. Even oxidation would leave something behind. 
6:04 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 07:43:45PM -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
The original post that started this thread spoke of
TRANSPARENT spots
where the aluminium was "gone". Reduces the overall credibility of the
story.
I've had the same thing happen when I spilled a coke on a cd in the
floorboard of my car and didnt notice it for a week or so.
Bill
--
Bill Bradford
mrbill(a)mrbill.net
Austin, TX
3:57 a.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote:
Yeah, imagine if this were to be let loose in the citys and towns of the
US. All those homes with aluminum siding, all those soda cans. Why, it
has the makings for a good Hollywood disaster film.
-brian.
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote:
I recall
those arguments...it was also one of the reasons it
was said that MO disks were superior to CD-R media. As far as I
recall, it was said to also get into the disk by going between the
sandwhich layers and it appeared on an affected disk as black spots.
Couldn't a fungus attach itself to the adhesive used to bond the
various layers of a CD-R? If not a fungus, it certainly seems
reasonable that the aluminum surface could possibly oxidize after a
while.
Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe.
2:56 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote:
Yeah, imagine if this were to be let loose in the citys and towns of the
US. All those homes with aluminum siding, all those soda cans. Why, it
has the makings for a good Hollywood disaster film.
-brian.
And worse yet, imagine being scatter-bombed with luggage and the bodies
of passengers as their airliners evaporated - leaving NOTHING behind.
- don
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote:
I recall
those arguments...it was also one of the reasons it
was said that MO disks were superior to CD-R media. As far as I
recall, it was said to also get into the disk by going between the
sandwhich layers and it appeared on an affected disk as black spots.
Couldn't a fungus attach itself to the adhesive used to bond the
various layers of a CD-R? If not a fungus, it certainly seems
reasonable that the aluminum surface could possibly oxidize after a
while.
Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe.
20 Jun
20 Jun
8:43 a.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote:
Yeah, imagine if this were to be let loose in the
citys and towns of the
US. All those homes with aluminum siding, all those soda cans. Why, it
has the makings for a good Hollywood disaster film.
A disaster? Would not something that ate that horrible looking
aluminum siding on houses and their wood trim be a good thing?
Perhaps it will also eat away that horrid vinyl siding, and hopefully
all of the new housing developments sprouting up like mutated poison
ivy throughout the countryside as well. :-)
RDD <--- ducking behind his old asbestos shingles to avoid the flames
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
18 Jun
18 Jun
9:34 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
then devoured the thin aluminium layer and some of the
data-storing
polycarbonate resin.
Dr Cardenes said: "It completely destroys the aluminium. It leaves nothing
I know there is something that eats aluminum sliding glass door tracks.
19 Jun
19 Jun
3:41 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
Mike Ford wrote:
Hey, how do I fix THAT problem??
Eric
then devoured
the thin aluminium layer and some of the data-storing
polycarbonate resin.
Dr Cardenes said: "It completely destroys the aluminium. It leaves nothing
I know there is something that eats aluminum sliding glass door tracks.
9:25 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
Mike Ford wrote:
Hey, how do I fix THAT problem??
Pull up the old one and replace it.
then
devoured the thin aluminium layer and some of the data-storing
polycarbonate resin.
Dr Cardenes said: "It completely destroys the aluminium. It leaves nothing
I know there is something that eats aluminum sliding glass door tracks. 
18 Jun
18 Jun
10:24 p.m.
New subject: CD Eating Fungus?
A friend of mine sent this to me, but I don't know
if it is valid or a hoax.
Valid - or at least a real good hoax, it involves a lot of
people, and did make it into several serious publications...
Well, I guess the 'yellow press like' writing (Unprepared
genius stumbled over world formula') doesn't add
creditability to real news.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
4:22 p.m.
New subject: VUNIC Surprise (Announcement 1)
I just wanted to express my appreciation and surprise at the (shall I
call it) excitement and interest that has been generated by my
suggestion that we use UUCP to connect vintage machines.
Over the next couple weeks, I'm going to develop a working document
and working group structure (not TOO structured!) to restart the
UUCP Mapping Project (the whole thing, not just for vintage machines),
put up the web site for VUNIC/VUnet and build a hub machine...
possibly out the MVax 3100 or one of the Suns I'm getting this weekend
running NetBSD.
I'm just going to manage the Mapping Project, build a regional hub for
the upper midwest and put resources and information on a web site.
Several folks here have offered to help with these efforts and I'll be
contacting you next week to see about getting stuff actually rolling.
It's not my intention to try to influence the use of UUCP or to try to
control who builds hubs, backbones, etc...I'll leave that
to everyone else.
I think the idea of creating an alternate Usenet and spam-free mail
transports are absolutely wonderful ideas. I also want to encourage
the use of UUCP for transferring files and making them easily available,
in archive form, for others to retrieve. In Announcement 2, I'll
mention more about this.
Anthony Clifton
COO/CTO - Captain Jack Communications
Owner - Clifton Digital Resources
Founder - The Internet User's Group of Iowa
4:26 p.m.
New subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2)
I'm pleased to announce that, very soon, I'll be taking over the
retroarchive.org web site from Gene Buckle. The site includes
around 600 megs of files, primarily for CP/M, but increasingly
for other OS's and platforms as well.
In addition, I'm going to place the files on the regional hub so
that they can be retrieved via UUCP...to make it easier to get
them directly onto vintage machines without having to use
conversion software.
To do this, however, I may need to use another common archive
format. My concern is that alot of vintage machines may not be
able to handle zip files. Suggestions for a format?
Thanks!
Anthony Clifton
Des Moines, Iowa
5:24 p.m.
New subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2)
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote:
I'm pleased to announce that, very soon, I'll
be taking over the
retroarchive.org web site from Gene Buckle. The site includes
around 600 megs of files, primarily for CP/M, but increasingly
for other OS's and platforms as well.
In addition, I'm going to place the files on the regional hub so
that they can be retrieved via UUCP...to make it easier to get
them directly onto vintage machines without having to use
conversion software.
To do this, however, I may need to use another common archive
format. My concern is that alot of vintage machines may not be
able to handle zip files. Suggestions for a format?
Well, ideally it'd probably be nice to have everything archived in some
format which is most appropriate for whatever system on which the files
are intended to be read. I don't know how practical that is.
One line of thinking would be that if you have lots of disk space in the
archive, then just keep multiple copies of everything in a handful of
the most popular file archive formats.
Another line of thinking would be that if you have lots of computer cycles
to spare, then keep everything in some standard format and convert it to
the desired format requested by the end user. I think this would be a
great way to handle it assuming the conversions can be run, but it results
in a lot of work for the archive syste.
My thoughts would be to maintain a central repository of compactly
compressed files, then leverage UUCP's distributed nature to dilute the
computation intensive conversion problem. So let's say the central
archive server has the name "archive". You'd then setup other translation
hosts around the archive server to get the file to you in the format you
wanted. For example, if you wanted the .zip version of the archive, you'd
access the archive through the "transzip" host in the path
archive!transzip!foo!bar!myhost
If you wanted the .lzh version of the file, you'd use the path
archive!translzh!foo!bar!myhost
etc...
I don't know how you'd actually go about implementing this so that the
transzip and translzh hosts would automatically take the central archive
copy and convert it to the appropriate translated copy. But I think it
would be neat if it's possible. And of course I'd imagine it such that
anyone who wanted to setup a translation host of one type or another would
be able to do so. It's not like there'd be only one host for each archive
type. Maybe I'd have my own host named "brizip".
archive!foo!bar!brizip!myhost
You'd just have to drag the file through some system which would know how
to translate archives. Again, I've no idea how this would actually work,
but I think it's got a sort of intuitive feel to it.
-brian.
6:16 p.m.
New subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2)
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote:
In addition, I'm going to place the files on the
regional hub so that
they can be retrieved via UUCP...to make it easier to get them
directly onto vintage machines without having to use conversion
software.
Very cool.
To do this, however, I may need to use another common
archive format.
My concern is that alot of vintage machines may not be able to handle
zip files. Suggestions for a format?
I think a version of UNZIP was written for just about every old computer
at some point or another (I know an Apple ][ version was eventually
written in the late 80s).
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
7:41 p.m.
New subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2)
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote:
ARC might be another good choice, I know it exists for Commodore 64.
In addition, I'm going to place the files on
the regional hub so that
they can be retrieved via UUCP...to make it easier to get them
directly onto vintage machines without having to use conversion
software.
Very cool.
To do this, however, I may need to use another
common archive format.
My concern is that alot of vintage machines may not be able to handle
zip files. Suggestions for a format?
I think a version of UNZIP was written for just about every old computer
at some point or another (I know an Apple ][ version was eventually
written in the late 80s).
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
BeOS Powered!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
8:19 p.m.
New subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2)
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton -
Retrocomputing.com wrote:
I think you may be right, Sellam, but IIRC the version for CP/M is only
capable of handling v1.10 compression and not the more current v2.04.
- don
In addition, I'm going to place the files on
the regional hub so that
they can be retrieved via UUCP...to make it easier to get them
directly onto vintage machines without having to use conversion
software.
Very cool.
To do this, however, I may need to use another
common archive format.
My concern is that alot of vintage machines may not be able to handle
zip files. Suggestions for a format?
I think a version of UNZIP was written for just about every old computer
at some point or another (I know an Apple ][ version was eventually
written in the late 80s). Sellam Ismail
Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
19 Jun
19 Jun
12:21 p.m.
New subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2)
I think a version of UNZIP was written for just about
every old computer
at some point or another (I know an Apple ][ version was eventually
written in the late 80s).
I know that the Amiga and Atari ST's had their versions, but
there was a fairly major format change at some point that could cause
a problem for older versions of the software on non-PC clones. If I
recall correctly, PKZIP/UNZIP was actually an outgrowth of PKware's
earlier PKARC/PKXARC programs and it changed names when Sea
Associates complained about the closeness of the name to their
products (ARC & UNARC), whcih they were compatible with. This was in
late '87 or early '88 and BBS's started boycotting the use of
ARC/UNARC and switched to ZIP as the defacto compression standard.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
12:43 p.m.
New subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2)
I think a
version of UNZIP was written for just about every old computer
at some point or another (I know an Apple ][ version was eventually
written in the late 80s).
I know that the Amiga and Atari ST's had their versions, but
there was a fairly major format change at some point that could cause
a problem for older versions of the software on non-PC clones. 
20 Jun
20 Jun
8:58 a.m.
New subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2)
Hi,
...on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 05:21:34PM -0400, Jeff Hellige wrote:
products (ARC & UNARC), whcih they were compatible
with. This was in
late '87 or early '88 and BBS's started boycotting the use of
ARC/UNARC and switched to ZIP as the defacto compression standard.
At least on the Atari ST, lharc was much more
common than zip until in the late years, when
STzip worked stable (and supported all the
pkzip compression routines)...
Alex.
14 Jun
14 Jun
6:17 p.m.
Here are some answers.
It plugs into the PC's ISA bus. Please see the Web page I pointed to
above, and the Catweasel links off of it, for more information.
See links on my Web page to the manufacturer and a couple of other places
you can buy them.
tim.mann(a)compaq.com wrote:
I've updated the cw2dmk program to version
1.6. This is a program that
uses the Catweasel ISA disk controller to read disk formats that are hard
or impossible to read with an ordinary PC floppy disk controller. The
new version adds a few features, among them the ability to read the DEC
RX02 double density format. See http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html
Jerome Fine replies:
When you mentioned the Catweasel ISA disk controller and compared it to an
ordinary PC floppy disk controller, it sounds like you are suggesting that
it can run on an ordinary PC? Am I correct in this assumption? If so,
is a special driver also required or does the cw2dmk program do everything?
The cw2dmk program talks directly to the Catweasel hardware; no other
driver is used. There are also various other programs/drivers available
for the Catweasel to read other kinds of disks (not from me).
Also, a rather important question, which floppy drive
is used?
Basically any standard floppy drive that is physically capable of accepting
the disk and stepping the head to the tracks. Any standard 8" drive should
work for real RX02 disks, for instance.
By the way, the disks I've actually tested the RX02 support on are in
a slightly modified RX02 format that uses both sides of an 80-track 5.25"
floppy. The encoding is the same unique FM/MFM combination as original
8" RX02 disks, but at half the bit rate. Sectors 1-13 are on the front,
14-26 on the back. They read fine in the standard 5.25" PC drive that
I used (a Teac FD-55GFR).
I do have a real 8" drive (Shugart 850) and have used it to read TRS-80
Model II disks with cw2dmk, but I don't have any 8" RX02 disks to try
in it. However, if you wanted to mail me a couple, I'd be glad to try
reading them to verify that it works. Contact me off-list.
You need a 34- to 50-pin adapter cable to plug an 8" drive into a Catweasel.
I made mine based on the diagrams in the CP/M FAQ; see
http://users.breathemail.net/trevor_gowen/cpm/cpm_faq.htm
If you aren't even enough of a hardware person to be comfortable making
up such a cable, you could try the premade adaptor sold by D Bit:
http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html
I understand that no ordinary PC floppy disk
controller/drive drive is able to
read/write the DEC RX02 "double density format" since it is really only a
single density header followed by double density data - or something similar.
Right. The Catweasel not a normal PC floppy disk controller; it's a sampler.
With the proper software, it can read just about anything.
It is my understanding that there were third party
Qbus controllers which
used Calcomp 8" floppy drives and that even the DEC RX02 controller
could use the Calcomp drive and be double sided. Is that possible with
the cw2dmk program, namely is an 8" RX03 double-density double-sided
(DSDD) floppy possible?
Yes, it can read both sides if you have a double-sided 8" drive (mine is).
Note that I haven't yet written a program to *write* disks with the Catweasel,
though the hardware has support for it.
Source code is
included under the GPL, so those who prefer to build their
own hardware instead of buying a Catweasel (let's not start *that* debate
again) may find it of some use too.
Since I am not a hardware type, where can I find the Catweasel controller and
a floppy drive so I can read 8" floppy RX02 diskettes on the PC - assuming
that my understanding is correct? And please also help with my question as
to DSDD floppies since more than half of my 8" floppies are DSDD - I used
a DSD 880/30 (Data Systems Design) system on my PDP-11 Qbus system
and modified the driver under RT-11 to also use the other side of the floppy
in the DYX.SYS device driver as well as adding a bounce buffer so that DYX.SYS
could be used under the 22 bit address range of the V5.0x versions of RT-11.
I think I've covered these questions above.
Thanks in advance for any help. I use the PC that I
have available to me
most of
the time now when I run RT-11, so being able to access the 8" floppies would
be
a big plus if this is possible.
Note that cw2dmk just makes an image file of the data (and formatting
information) on the disk. You'll have to write a bit more code to transform
that file into a format that's useful on your PC. That shouldn't be hard.
Tim Mann tim.mann(a)compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org
Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA
8429
days inactive
8442
days old
62 comments
35 participants
participants (35)
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ab＠gxis.de -
ab＠lists.gxis.de -
at258＠osfn.org -
bdc＠world.std.com -
bill＠cs.scranton.edu -
chomko＠greenbelt.com -
chris＠mainecoon.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dittman＠dittman.net -
dogas＠bellsouth.net -
donm＠cts.com -
dpeschel＠eskimo.com -
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ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
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jhfine＠idirect.com -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
jss＠ou.edu -
korpela＠ssl.berkeley.edu -
marvin＠rain.org -
menadeau＠mediaone.net -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
mrbill＠mrbill.net -
pechter＠bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com -
rdd＠smart.net -
spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu -
terryc＠woa.com.au -
tim.mann＠compaq.com -
vance＠ikickass.org -
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