On 1/9/19 12:05 PM, Torfinn Ingolfsen via cctalk wrote: Just what the world needs, more half-baked floppy reading hardware and no software, just like the stupid thing on hackaday. https://hackaday.com/2019/01/08/preserving-floppy-disks-via-logic-analyser/ Universal joy through the reinvention of the wheel (badly)

At 03:39 PM 9/01/2019 -0500, you wrote: Has anyone used a DiscFerret, to actually extract files from say, Apple II disks and HP LIF disks? The website- https://discferret.com/wiki/DiscFerret It seemms like the project is dead since 2013, was only ever for Linux, and never included software that understands various old floppy formats. Is that right? My neads (using DOS, WinXP or Win7) are: * At the moment I'm attempting to restore my old, heavily modified Apple II to working condition, and then archive all my old Apple II files on floppies to PC. Part of a project to document a bunch of projects I did in my 20s, 1970s t0 1980s. The intro article is here: http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm Another article is in progress, about the restoration and doco of all the mods I did on my Apple II. After it's working and old files extracted, then an article about my hacking Apple DOS 3.2 to get higher data density. The old thermal printer listings are faded to illegibility, so I'm really hoping the floppies are still readable. * Also I have some old HP equipment that uses HP-format floppies. LIF? They're not DOS compatible. A HP 1630G logic analyzer with 9121 GPIB dual floppy drive, and a HP 80000 data generator. For both machines I have old floppies containing critical utilities (including a bunch of disassembly utilities for early processors) that I really want to back up on PC and put online. There's sentimental and historical interest with both, and practical need with the HP gear. But, I have little experience with data recovery from old floppies. Long ago I did have a PC ISA bus card for extracting bit transition images from floppies, but I can't find it. Just now starting to look for what's available. Hoping for something that just works, as I have way too many projects already. I do have boxes of old drives, 8" 5.25" and 3.5", most densities. What other all-formats floppy R/W and data recovery tools do people here know of? Comments of their functionality? Guy

If you have a working Apple II and floppy drive you can use ADTPro http://adtpro.com at least for standard Apple formats (probably not higher data density) it works rather well. Chris

At 07:34 PM 9/01/2019 -0800, you wrote: I used to. These days with years growing short, I try to avoid such 'purely for fun' projects. 'Try', but often fail. Too easily sidetracked. But there are some things I want to do before I get too old, and they're not all going to be possible. Sidetracks just shorten the list. Sure, I agree. I think many existing things are crap, hence the tendency to want to improve them. But there's not enough time. Gundam Syndrome. For _this_ project, I just want to 1. Get my old Apple II fully working again. More to that than you'd expect: http://everist.org/NobLog/20190106_hacked_appleII.htm (only just started) Currently setting up a logic analyzer for this. Wish I'd had one back then! Now I have a choice among several. I sort of collect logic analyzers like some people collect scopes. I'll probably use my trusty OLD HP 1630G, just to give it some exercise. BTW, does anyone have any spare disassembly ROM packs for the Tek 1240? Seeking any! See: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/im-updating-a-wiki-site-for-the-tektr… I post as TerraHertz there. 2. Recover what files I can from all my old Apple II floppies. I want all of them to end up as files on a PC, with as little effort as possible. SOME of them I'll want to create new disks of, for use in one last Apple II project. Which is mostly just a demonstration of some things I did long ago. Not interested in simulators. The point is to demonstrate and take pics/videos of stuff running on that particular (highly modified) Apple II. And also to rebuild EPROMs for a few things. I do know a fair bit about the internals of Apple II disks (or rather, did) but now I don't much want to know. No way am I going to do manual file reconstructions from sector data. For this pile of floppies: http://everist.org/NobLog/pics/20181001/20181223_1961.jpg 3. Similar for the HP LIF disks. Recover the files to PC, create fresh disks exactly the same, post online any of the files (and/or disk images) that are not already. Pretty high chance most of them won't be. Apple II: Extract all files AND create duplicates of a few of the disks. All for my use. Unlikely to be much of interest to others. HP LIF: Extract all files (not many. I think no more than six 3.5" floppies.) Also create disk images for posting. So others have both the images and the files. Sure, but for me this is only practical if tools exist to treat the image file as a virtual disk, to read the files. I _could_ write it (would take me months, or even years given how little time slices the project would get) but do not have time. More urgent things take priority. This is what I'm asking - does any such utility exist? Capture the image, and give access as files, allowing them all to be saved as files, one folder per original floppy. On a PC. Another path would be a software pair, some on the Apple II and some on the PC, with some channel between. RS232, or a dual port RAM, or whatever. This would actually be a lot simpler for me to write. I never did have a serial card for the Apple II back then, but that can't be hard to find. Heh. You didn't read this: http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm#dos And I have that book btw. All my Apple II disks are DOS 3.2. When 3.3 came out, it was a) too much trouble to convert everything up, and b) ... read that 'missing the wave' story. It gave me a sour feeling about 3.3. Totally my own fault, but still. Dear me, my sympathies. More in common. Part of this effort involves writing up a product of mine for the Apple II (an EPROM programmer, EPROM bank and battery-backed RAM card) See http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm#promr that was pretty good but got commercially sabotaged to death by a 'friend.' Ha, this I know well. Having reverse engineered Apple DOS 3.2 hardware and software myself from curiosity. In Australia, the DOS 3.2 manuals did not arrive for a loooong time after we got the actual hardware. Some of the disks I want to recover contain the disassembly and my own code the data density. Yeah. I have at times done hand dissections and debugs of PC floppies and hard disks (only the FAT varieties) but would rather not do that again. There's a bunch of books in my library about PC DOS disk structures, and I'll be happy to never open them again. I thought the whole thing was ghastly. Every. Single. Improvement. was always so shortsighted and limiting. Bah. Sure, I know. But there's just ONE not-quite ASCII file format I'll be converting. The Assembler I used on the Apple II was primitive, and kept source files in a form with mixed binary and text per line. They saved a bit of space that way. I'll want to write a converter to get them into plain text. So I can build them with a _real_ cross compiler on a PC, if needed. Almost ALL the files on those Apple disks will be like that. I have the format documented, because I disassembled the assembler and patched improvements into it. It didn't implement all the 6502 addressing modes, for one thing. Also lacked some important directives. It became a patched mess, but worked. God how I hated that Assembler and it's non-ascii format. I didn't change that annoyance, because memory space really was a critical shortage. That's very impressive. And you didn't put the source online for free when you terminated the project, because...? Guy

At 12:03 PM 10/01/2019 -0800, you wrote: That's a very good point, thanks. Hadn't occured to me, but of course the vast majority of Apple IIs ever sold used the 16 sector format. So that was the target market. Since almost all my A2 disks are DOS 3.2 13 sector, sounds like reading them with the A2 then transferring contents to PC via some link is the way to go. Hmm, I was given an Apple IIe about two decades ago, but never used it. Presumably my Apple DOS 3.2 driver card would work in that, and it could boot DOS 3.2 Possibly that's a fallback plan if I can't resolve the severely flakey operation of my early model, massively hacked Apple II. Assuming the IIe is less flakey. Not to worry about that, I have an attic full of old PC stuff including many old floppy drives of almost all kinds. I like external USB hard disk docks, but USB floppy drives - never had a need for them, never will. Guy

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019, Chris Pye via cctalk wrote: I agree completely, that IFF he can get one of his Apples working (and he does seem to have the expertise to do so), that serial port transfer makes sense, and a DiscFerret or equivalent is not a practical way to go. Although a flux transition device can be fun for some other stuff, such as hard sectored disks, Victor/Sirius, and other non-MFM oddball stuff.

On 1/10/2019 7:41 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Or emulated with a 39 cent part not counting connectors. Ben.

On 1/10/19 7:05 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: But cctlk navel contemplation and bile generation is sooo much more fun than producing anything USEFUL

At 09:43 AM 10/01/2019 +0100, you wrote: Thanks!

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019, Paul Berger wrote: *All* standard PC floppy disk controllers can deal with 256 bytes/sector MFM. Show me one that can't. USB drives are another story, because they are intelligent subsystems (think of a CBM 1541) that have only implemented the most minimum to handle standard format IBM PC floppies. Christian

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 12:55 PM Guy Dunphy via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: I think that other than the PSU, the HP9122 and HP9123 are much the same. The HP9122 has an internal PSU (runs off the mains supply), the HP9123 takes in +5V and +12V over that cable ending in the 5 pin DIN plug. It was designed for use with the HP150-II which has a suitable power output socket. -tony