22 Jan
2018
22 Jan
'18
6:06 p.m.
So did we ever get an answer to the original question (the value of
a Sun3)? All I saw was 'you'd have to pay to recycle them'.
From: Grant Taylor
> Before that, if you were lucky enough to be at
Stanford, MIT, or CMU,
> you could use the Dover and Altos that were part of Xerox's University
> Grant Program.
What made the Dover and Altos special in this context?
Sorry, I don't understand the question. (I assume you're not simply asking
'what made the Dover and Altos special'.) Which context? (As in 'what's
the
connection between the Sun3 query, and Dovers and Altos'? If so, I think it
was just thread drift via the laser printers.)
This is the 2nd time I've heard about 3 Mbps
Ethernet.
That's the 'original' Ethernet; PARC did the 3Mbit one first, and the 10 Mbit
one came along quite a few years later.
I'm trying to remember what kind of cable it used; IIRC it was black coax,
with a woven shield (i.e. not solid like CATV), not quite as large in
diameter as the yellow 10Mbit stuff. To connect up to it, one clamped on a
connector thingy, which had a threaded hole in it over the cable; one then
screwed in a cylindrical cutter which made a hole through the shield, and one
then screwed in a transceiver (which was a box about 2"x2"x4", IIRC).
Hopefully someone has a picture somewhere?
Noel
22 Jan
22 Jan
6:32 p.m.
On 01/22/2018 04:06 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
So did we ever get an answer to the original question
(the value of a
Sun3)? All I saw was 'you'd have to pay to recycle them'.
I've not seen an answer to that question. I have seen multiple people
raise their virtual hand in interest. But no discussions of $ other
than disposal fees.
Sorry, I don't understand the question. (I assume
you're not simply asking
'what made the Dover and Altos special'.) Which context?
What makes the copies of papers printed on them special? Was there
something about the quality? Or is it simply that the documents were
printed via machines that were intriguing unto themselves.
(As in 'what's the connection between the Sun3
query, and Dovers and
Altos'? If so, I think it was just thread drift via the laser printers.)
ACK
That's the 'original' Ethernet; PARC did
the 3Mbit one first, and the
10 Mbit one came along quite a few years later.
I assume this has something to do with the Digital / Intel / Xerox as in
the DIX connector.
I'm trying to remember what kind of cable it used;
IIRC it was black coax,
with a woven shield (i.e. not solid like CATV), not quite as large in
diameter as the yellow 10Mbit stuff.
That sounds like typical Radio Grade cable. I just have no idea which
RG it was. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "solid like CATV". Much
of the coax that I've seen used for cable TV is RG-59, or RG-6. Both of
which ideally have a woven braid w/ 80% or greater coverage. I have
seen some that is effectively foil wrapped around the inner dielectric
insulator. I like to see solid dielectric insulators, but I have
suffered through some that were a helical coil around a center conductor
that may or may not have some sort of thin coating.
I have long found Radio Grade cable to be confusing (as in I've not
figured out any pattern) as well as some of the executions to be
extremely bad. Usually, but not always, the more expensive it is
(within reason) the better quality it is. Save for the stuff that
artificially jumps the price to catch people that shop solely based on
price = quality.
To connect up to it, one clamped on a connector
thingy, which had a
threaded hole in it over the cable; one then screwed in a cylindrical
cutter which made a hole through the shield, and one then screwed in a
transceiver (which was a box about 2"x2"x4", IIRC).
That sounds like a description of what I've heard called a "Vampire
Tap". - My understanding is that's the poor way to connect to (what is
effectively) the Ethernet bus.
I've been told that it's more proper to take an outage, cut the cable,
terminate the ends properly, and connect both ends to a new AUI (DIX?)
breakout box.
Hopefully someone has a picture somewhere?
I suspect that Wikipedia's article on 10Base5 has some decent pictures:
Link - 10Base5
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BASE5
Google's image search for thicknet has a number of things too.
I never have managed to get my hands on any Thicknet 10Base5 but I'd
like to get just enough to connect two machines.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8:24 p.m.
On 1/22/2018 3:32 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
On 01/22/2018 04:06 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
wrote:
I did mention mine came free.? I also did sell my systems in
the late
80s for some amount.? I think the answer will be relative to who is
collecting them and their budget.? At least on this list that didn't
seem to be many..
As I said I'd be glad to help you make yours have value if you want my
system, or the tapes.
Al said he was open to offers for his system, which, by the way sounds
like the 4/xxx system I had. A historical note on my system, might have
been true of Al's depending on history too, Hamilton pre merger had a
group which bought some of these systems, which were in my case in a 6'
cabinet similar to the Dec H960 in size, and used them as systems for
doing pal and other utility work.
At out local Hamilton office in Orange County, where mine came from,
they would let people come in and get accounts and use them for whatever
they needed, usually by convincing the two local guys that you had
something that would result in Hamilton selling some product.
As to value, I'd say with the tape, my system should be worth a couple
hundred.? No disks, but should have SCSI controller.? The tapes being
the thing adding value.? That is with it in the state of a project
machine.? Add in the monitors and have it restored, I'd say 1000 to 1500
would be a reasonable asking price.
Worth noting my 3/260 has a monochrome graphics port, so one would have
a very large and power hungry Sunos 3 or Sunos 4 graphics station.? I
think I have the Hitachi monitors that went with the system.
Thanks
Jim
So did we ever get an answer to the original
question (the value of a
Sun3)? All I saw was 'you'd have to pay to recycle them'.
I've not seen an answer to that question.? I have seen multiple people
raise their virtual hand in interest.? But no discussions of $ other
than disposal fees. 
8:52 p.m.
Value . If it was in/near where I live a 3/50 with a good display would be
.... oh $100. Finding a monochrome jug would be the biggest issue.
-pete
On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 5:24 PM, jim stephens via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 1/22/2018 3:32 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
On 01/22/2018 04:06 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
wrote:
I did mention mine came free. I also did sell my systems in the late 80s
for some amount. I think the answer will be relative to who is collecting
them and their budget. At least on this list that didn't seem to be many..
As I said I'd be glad to help you make yours have value if you want my
system, or the tapes.
Al said he was open to offers for his system, which, by the way sounds
like the 4/xxx system I had. A historical note on my system, might have
been true of Al's depending on history too, Hamilton pre merger had a group
which bought some of these systems, which were in my case in a 6' cabinet
similar to the Dec H960 in size, and used them as systems for doing pal and
other utility work.
At out local Hamilton office in Orange County, where mine came from, they
would let people come in and get accounts and use them for whatever they
needed, usually by convincing the two local guys that you had something
that would result in Hamilton selling some product.
As to value, I'd say with the tape, my system should be worth a couple
hundred. No disks, but should have SCSI controller. The tapes being the
thing adding value. That is with it in the state of a project machine.
Add in the monitors and have it restored, I'd say 1000 to 1500 would be a
reasonable asking price.
Worth noting my 3/260 has a monochrome graphics port, so one would have a
very large and power hungry Sunos 3 or Sunos 4 graphics station. I think I
have the Hitachi monitors that went with the system.
Thanks
Jim
So did we ever get an answer to the original
question (the value of a
Sun3)? All I saw was 'you'd have to pay to recycle them'.
I've not seen an answer to that question. I have seen multiple people
raise their virtual hand in interest. But no discussions of $ other than
disposal fees.
11:31 p.m.
On 1/22/2018 7:07 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 1/22/18 5:24 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:
I have the originals, hopefully
they can be made to work.
Worth noting my 3/260 has a monochrome graphics
port
x/2x0 CPUs produce 1600 x 1280, ECL 200 MHz dot clock video.
CRTs for them are pretty much impossible to find. 
6:36 p.m.
On 1/22/18 3:06 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
I'm trying to remember what kind of cable it used;
IIRC it was black coax,
with a woven shield (i.e. not solid like CATV), not quite as large in
diameter as the yellow 10Mbit stuff. To connect up to it, one clamped on a
connector thingy, which had a threaded hole in it over the cable; one then
screwed in a cylindrical cutter which made a hole through the shield, and one
then screwed in a transceiver (which was a box about 2"x2"x4", IIRC).
Hopefully someone has a picture somewhere?
It's 75 ohm cable TV impedence (RG11?)
I use RG-59 and BNCs for my Alto networks at CHM.
You can pull the stingers off of the silver transceiver boxes easily and replace it with
a
BNC female socket.
I've got a chunk of the orange plenum stuff with the vampire taps and terminators in
storage.
2406
days inactive
2407
days old
6 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
jwsmail＠jwsss.com -
pete＠petelancashire.com