27 Sep
2007
27 Sep
'07
5:31 p.m.
Has anyone tried Toshiya Takeda's Epson QX-10 emulator at
http://www1.interq.or.jp/~t-takeda/top.html ?
From what I can gather, one needs at least the boot rom
image to get
the thing to run. Anyone know where I can get one?
Cheers,
Chuck
28 Sep
28 Sep
5:10 p.m.
Has anyone tried Toshiya Takeda's Epson QX-10 emulator at
No, I've got a real QX10, and I mush prefer the real hardware to emulators..
http://www1.interq.or.jp/~t-takeda/top.html ?
I have backuops of the boot ROM (2K) and character geenrator ROM (4K) if
those would be any use to you.
-tony
From what I can gather, one needs at least the
boot rom image to get
the thing to run. Anyone know where I can get one?
5:49 p.m.
On 29 Sep 2007 at 1:10, Tony Duell wrote:
No, I've got a real QX10, and I mush prefer the
real hardware to emulators..
Hmmm, I'm impatient. I like my emulator running at around 100x the
original. It allows me to make more mistrakes fastwr.
I have backuops of the boot ROM (2K) and character
geenrator ROM (4K) if
those would be any use to you.
Yes please. I'm very curious about this emulator.
Thanks,
Chuck
29 Sep
29 Sep
4:36 a.m.
Hi:
Looking arround I found this:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fjkraan/comp/qx10/detail.html
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/epson/~fjkraan/comp/qx10/…
Paco
On 9/29/07, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 29 Sep 2007 at 1:10, Tony Duell wrote:
No, I've got a real QX10, and I mush prefer
the real hardware to emulators..
Hmmm, I'm impatient. I like my emulator running at around 100x the
original. It allows me to make more mistrakes fastwr.
I have backuops of the boot ROM (2K) and
character geenrator ROM (4K) if
those would be any use to you.
Yes please. I'm very curious about this emulator.
Thanks,
Chuck
3:03 p.m.
On 29 Sep 2007 at 1:10, Tony Duell wrote:
Well, if I wanted a fast PC, I'd buy a fast PC. But if I want to
experience a QX10, I'll use a QX10, and have all the fun of tracing video
problems caused by extra components [ask if you want to know _that_
story], and aligning those wonderful voice-coil floppy drives...
-tony
No, I've got a real QX10, and I mush prefer
the real hardware to emulators..
Hmmm, I'm impatient. I like my emulator running at around 100x the
original. It allows me to make more mistrakes fastwr. 
30 Sep
30 Sep
10:37 a.m.
> problems caused by extra components [ask if you want to know _that_
> story], and aligning those wonderful voice-coil floppy drives...
OK, I bought a QX10 at a radio rally (hamfest), and the seller threw in
an extra CPU box which he said didn't work properly, but it might be
useful for spares.
Well, of course, ard being ard, I decided to find out just what was wrong
with this spare machine. The PSU checked out fine, so I fired it up. It
seemed to boot OK, but after a bit of screen scrolling the display got
terribly corrupted. I forget the exact details, but I think the text
appeared in the wrong part of the screen, stuff that had scrolled off
came back in strange locations, and so on.
It looked like a video RAM problem. Now the QX10 has a daughterboard
containing all the video circuitry, it contains an 7220, a gate array for
the actual dot shifting/combining (early versions have TTL logic chips
for this...), a character generator ROM, a bit of TTL and 16 DRAM chips.
According to the techref, the last can be either 4116s (16K) or 4164s
(64K), there are links on the board to select which type are in use. I
checked, everything was set correctly. The board had 4164s on it, all the
links were in the '64K' postiion.
So, being young and foolish, I replaced the complete set of (socketed)
DRAMs, intending to put the originals back until I'd found the one that
was playing up. No, that made no difference. Nor (as I said I was young
and foolisH) did temporarilu replacing the 7220 and gate array with the
ones from the good machine. And the ones from the defective machine
worked fine in the 'good' machine.
So I had to think about it. I decided to see what the RAM size links did,
these are shown on the schematic.
One of them connected pin one of all the DRAMs to -5V, or left it floating.
Another connected pin 8 of all the DRAMs to +12V or +5V
And another connected pin 9 of all the DRAMs to +5V or an address output
from the logic.
Suddenly, it hit me. Not shown on the schematic, but present on the
board, were decoupling capacitors. And pin 9 of the DRAM array had 8 or
so decoupling caps, 0.1uF each, between it and ground.
Fine if 4116s were fitted and that pin was a +5V supply. Not so good if
it was a logic-level signal. That extra capacitance added a ridiculous
delay to that address line.
So I desoldered the capacitors. With all the original chips in the board,
the machine sprang to life and worked fine.
Presumably a previous owner had replaced 4116s with 4164s, either to get
the higher video RAM capacity, or because one of the former had failed
and he only had the latter. He'd correctly re-set the links, but hadn't
realised about the decoupling capacitors.
-tony
5:02 p.m.
hey thanks for that. Do you still attend radio
rallies, and if so are you still able to find
interesting stuff? I haven't attended ham shows in
years, except for the MIT Flea 2 weekends ago, so I
don't know what turns up these days. Back in the early
90's you could find all sorts of useless stuff LOL
LOL. Like 19" open frame monochrome monitors and such.
They always asked a lot for their *junk* though. Often
I was put off.
OT - Tony, what are you doing about finding yourself
(or ME LOL) and early English T & LM lathe. If you
don't know what I'm talking about, lathes.co.uk should
have a profile on it. Lindsay Pubs. has a small
booklet that describes the construction (contains a
reprint from "American Machinist" from the early 20th
century). Since you're in the country it was
manufactured, don't take offence, but you'd be crazy
to not at least keep yer eyes open for one. Or
advertise around. Yer know ;)
--- Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> problems caused by extra components [ask if you
want to know _that_
> story], and aligning those wonderful
voice-coil
floppy drives...
OK, I bought a QX10 at a radio rally (hamfest), and
the seller threw in
an extra CPU box which he said didn't work properly,
but it might be
useful for spares.
Well, of course, ard being ard, I decided to find
out just what was wrong
with this spare machine. The PSU checked out fine,
so I fired it up. It
seemed to boot OK, but after a bit of screen
scrolling the display got
terribly corrupted. I forget the exact details, but
I think the text
appeared in the wrong part of the screen, stuff that
had scrolled off
came back in strange locations, and so on.
It looked like a video RAM problem. Now the QX10 has
a daughterboard
containing all the video circuitry, it contains an
7220, a gate array for
the actual dot shifting/combining (early versions
have TTL logic chips
for this...), a character generator ROM, a bit of
TTL and 16 DRAM chips.
According to the techref, the last can be either
4116s (16K) or 4164s
(64K), there are links on the board to select which
type are in use. I
checked, everything was set correctly. The board had
4164s on it, all the
links were in the '64K' postiion.
So, being young and foolish, I replaced the complete
set of (socketed)
DRAMs, intending to put the originals back until I'd
found the one that
was playing up. No, that made no difference. Nor (as
I said I was young
and foolisH) did temporarilu replacing the 7220 and
gate array with the
ones from the good machine. And the ones from the
defective machine
worked fine in the 'good' machine.
So I had to think about it. I decided to see what
the RAM size links did,
these are shown on the schematic.
One of them connected pin one of all the DRAMs to
-5V, or left it floating.
Another connected pin 8 of all the DRAMs to +12V or
+5V
And another connected pin 9 of all the DRAMs to +5V
or an address output
from the logic.
Suddenly, it hit me. Not shown on the schematic, but
present on the
board, were decoupling capacitors. And pin 9 of the
DRAM array had 8 or
so decoupling caps, 0.1uF each, between it and
ground.
Fine if 4116s were fitted and that pin was a +5V
supply. Not so good if
it was a logic-level signal. That extra capacitance
added a ridiculous
delay to that address line.
So I desoldered the capacitors. With all the
original chips in the board,
the machine sprang to life and worked fine.
Presumably a previous owner had replaced 4116s with
4164s, either to get
the higher video RAM capacity, or because one of the
former had failed
and he only had the latter. He'd correctly re-set
the links, but hadn't
realised about the decoupling capacitors.
-tony
1 Oct
1 Oct
3:05 p.m.
hey thanks for that. Do you still attend radio
rallies, and if so are you still able to find
I've not been to one for a few years now. The last one I went to had only
slightly out-of-date PC parts, which really don't interest me at all.
Pity really, I got some very interesting toys at rallies over the years
-- the Intellec MCS8i, Xerox Daybreak (\pounds 10.00, the seller hadn't a
clue as to what it was. Nor had I, but it looked interesting, and I
thought I recognised 2901-like things on the porcessor oard...), HH
Tiger, various BBC micro bits, paper tape punches, etc, etc, etc.
interesting stuff? I haven't attended ham shows
in
years, except for the MIT Flea 2 weekends ago, so I
don't know what turns up these days. Back in the early
90's you could find all sorts of useless stuff LOL
LOL. Like 19" open frame monochrome monitors and such.
They always asked a lot for their *junk* though. Often
I was put off.
Odd, over hera the prices for computer stuff were always pretty
reasoanble. As were components. Radio stuff was another matter, I guess
the sellers knew the value of that ;-).
OT - Tony, what are you doing about finding yourself
(or ME LOL) and early English T & LM lathe. If you
Nothing as yet. I'm happy with my Myford....
don't know what I'm talking about,
lathes.co.uk should
have a profile on it. Lindsay Pubs. has a small
booklet that describes the construction (contains a
reprint from "American Machinist" from the early 20th
century). Since you're in the country it was
manufactured, don't take offence, but you'd be crazy
to not at least keep yer eyes open for one. Or
advertise around. Yer know ;)
I will, of course take a look and keep my eyes open. Quite where I'd put
it is another matter...
-tony
2 Oct
2 Oct
1:05 a.m.
On Monday 01 October 2007 23:05:55 Tony Duell wrote:
-- the Intellec MCS8i, Xerox Daybreak (\pounds 10.00,
the seller hadn't a
clue as to what it was. Nor had I, but it looked interesting, and I
Clueless sellers are brilliant. I scored a nice Roland Juno 106 off the
notoriously overpriced Cash Converters for ?120 - it was the HS60 model with
the built-in speakers, so it got lumped in with the home keyboards.
Apparently it was "crap, because it didn't have any rhythms or nothing".
Yup, and it's also 300 quid cheaper than the going rate... \o/
Gordon
29 Sep
29 Sep
4:22 p.m.
--- Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I wanna I wanna! Fill me in! :)
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers
- Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
On 29 Sep 2007 at 1:10, Tony Duell wrote:
> No, I've got a real QX10, and I mush prefer the
real hardware to
emulators..
Hmmm, I'm impatient. I like my emulator running
at around 100x the
original. It allows me to make more mistrakes
fastwr.
Well, if I wanted a fast PC, I'd buy a fast PC. But
if I want to
experience a QX10, I'll use a QX10, and have all the
fun of tracing video
problems caused by extra components [ask if you want
to know _that_
story], and aligning those wonderful voice-coil
floppy drives...
-tony
5:07 p.m.
On 29 Sep 2007 at 23:03, Tony Duell wrote:
Well, if I wanted a fast PC, I'd buy a fast PC.
But if I want to
experience a QX10, I'll use a QX10, and have all the fun of tracing video
problems caused by extra components [ask if you want to know _that_
story], and aligning those wonderful voice-coil floppy drives...
I'm more interested in the software. Much of it was implemented in
Forth and there were some very interesting aspects of the
implementation.
For my purposes, an accurate emulator is just as good (or even
better) than the original. I don't need to worry about flakey
components, or out-of-adjustment drives. I can run multiple sessions
for comparison and even hack the emulator code to trap what I'm
interested in.
As far as "recreating the experience", I honestly don't think it's
possible without the use of hynotism and some psychoactive drugs.
I'm not who I was in 1982 (thankfully!) and any "gee-whiz" that the
real thing had in 1982 is not going to make the same impression on me
today. (256KB? Golly, my wife's digital camera packs more than 4
orders of magnitude more on a MicroSD card--and it's nonvolatile).
I don't really care if it's implemented with chicken nuggets and used
chewing gum--as long as it works and runs the software I'm interested
in.
So, hang me for a heretic. :)
Cheers,
Chuck
6:14 p.m.
besides the Poppy Chuck, what vintage beauties do you
have "hanging" around the house?
--- Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 29 Sep 2007 at 23:03, Tony Duell wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos
& more.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
Well, if I wanted a fast PC, I'd buy a fast
PC.
But if I want to
experience a QX10, I'll use a QX10, and have
all
the fun of tracing video
problems caused by extra components [ask if you
want to know _that_
story], and aligning those wonderful voice-coil
floppy drives...
I'm more interested in the software. Much of it was
implemented in
Forth and there were some very interesting aspects
of the
implementation.
For my purposes, an accurate emulator is just as
good (or even
better) than the original. I don't need to worry
about flakey
components, or out-of-adjustment drives. I can run
multiple sessions
for comparison and even hack the emulator code to
trap what I'm
interested in.
As far as "recreating the experience", I honestly
don't think it's
possible without the use of hynotism and some
psychoactive drugs.
I'm not who I was in 1982 (thankfully!) and any
"gee-whiz" that the
real thing had in 1982 is not going to make the same
impression on me
today. (256KB? Golly, my wife's digital camera
packs more than 4
orders of magnitude more on a MicroSD card--and it's
nonvolatile).
I don't really care if it's implemented with chicken
nuggets and used
chewing gum--as long as it works and runs the
software I'm interested
in.
So, hang me for a heretic. :)
Cheers,
Chuck
6:51 p.m.
On 29 Sep 2007 at 18:14, Chris M wrote:
besides the Poppy Chuck, what vintage beauties do you
have "hanging" around the house?
Some S-100 stuff, including a MITS 8800 and a couple of other boxes,
A TRS-80 model 16 and, sadly, no Poppies, just two "loaded" F-85s,
including one with the external 14" disk drive. A few other mass-
produced odds and ends that I'm aware of, but nothing that I've
touched in the last 10-15 years. Various peripherals.
And the S-100 stuff probably hasn't been touched in over 25 years,
except to move it.
Collecting just isn't my thing. Interest in old technology is.
Cheers,
Chuck
30 Sep
30 Sep
4:50 p.m.
this is going to sound like a real silly question, and
I really should have written it down, but I payed a
visit to this guy in S.Jersey that had a bunch of
stuff, mostly pretty OT peecee stuff, but he had this
one large thing tucked away beneath the rest of the
stuff. 3 letters duh System 3000 IIRC (and that's a
big if). Can anyone help? He said it did work in a
pharmacy, and could connect with the system in France.
Oui oui oui.
--- Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 29 Sep 2007 at 18:14, Chris M wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to
get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
besides the Poppy Chuck, what vintage beauties do
you
have "hanging" around the house?
Some S-100 stuff, including a MITS 8800 and a couple
of other boxes,
A TRS-80 model 16 and, sadly, no Poppies, just two
"loaded" F-85s,
including one with the external 14" disk drive. A
few other mass-
produced odds and ends that I'm aware of, but
nothing that I've
touched in the last 10-15 years. Various
peripherals.
And the S-100 stuff probably hasn't been touched in
over 25 years,
except to move it.
Collecting just isn't my thing. Interest in old
technology is.
Cheers,
Chuck
1 Oct
1 Oct
9:30 a.m.
New subject: Identify "System 3000" machine (was: Epson QX-10 Emulator
Rumor has it that Chris M may have mentioned these words:
this is going to sound like a real silly question, and
I really should have written it down, but I payed a
visit to this guy in S.Jersey that had a bunch of
stuff, mostly pretty OT peecee stuff, but he had this
one large thing tucked away beneath the rest of the
stuff. 3 letters duh System 3000 IIRC (and that's a
big if).
Not "duh" -- that was prolly "DEC" - short for Digital Equipment
Corporation. Doubtful you've ever heard of the company on _this_ list
before... ;-)
I have a DEC System 3000 Model 300 at home... nice machine. Had Tru64 Unix
on it for the wife. Gotta love not worrying about spyware or viruses! :-)
Sadly, the framebuffer didn't have enough colors for true-color, and when
the wife wanted to view more pictures & stuff on the web, she wanted an
upgrade. Ah well, a Compaq dual-processor server & a 32Meg PCI video card
w/Linux to the rescue...
Still have the box & 19" monitor, tho. Heavy sucker that it is...
Assuming I actually get a job soon (Supposedly, the longer I wait to hear
if I have the job, the better chance I have of getting the job... weird
logic, but it's for "da man") and can afford to go to a VCF or two next
year... it may be available for cheap. Right now I can barely afford a pot
to cook in... let alone petrol for the 4x4. Shipping is out of the question...
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | Anarchy doesn't scale well. -- Me
zmerch at 30below.com. |
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers
29 Sep
29 Sep
7:35 p.m.
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007, Chuck Guzis wrote:
For my purposes, an accurate emulator is just as good
(or even
better) than the original. I don't need to worry about flakey
components, or out-of-adjustment drives.
Well, . . .
you could implement a truly bug-for-bug emulator, and simulate in software
the effects of flaky components and out-of-adjustment drives.
Maybe like the guy who modified the TRS80 BLACKJACK program to be "more
realistic" - multiple "dealer" profiles chosen at random, and according to
your winnings, some of which shorted payouts, dealt seconds, or just plin
NEVER LOST.
11:23 p.m.
On 29 Sep 2007 at 19:35, Fred Cisin wrote:
Maybe like the guy who modified the TRS80 BLACKJACK
program to be "more
realistic" - multiple "dealer" profiles chosen at random, and according
to
your winnings, some of which shorted payouts, dealt seconds, or just plin
NEVER LOST.
Now there's a thought--modify "advent" so that once you got into the
twisty little passages, you'd never get out.
Cheers,
Chuck
11:37 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Now there's a thought--modify "advent"
so that once you got into the
twisty little passages, you'd never get out.
I played a 3D graphics game with cave men and you got a real cave
that you had to find the correct passage through.And of course
your torch went out after 3 or 4 rooms.
Ben.
That reminds me to update advent for my PDP-8.
30 Sep
30 Sep
10:47 a.m.
On 29 Sep 2007 at 23:03, Tony Duell wrote:
Ah, I was momentarily forgetting Valdocs. My QX10 came with CP/M and
that's all I've ever run on it. I find it's a pretty nice CP/M box,
actually....
Well, if I wanted a fast PC, I'd buy a fast
PC. But if I want to
experience a QX10, I'll use a QX10, and have all the fun of tracing video
problems caused by extra components [ask if you want to know _that_
story], and aligning those wonderful voice-coil floppy drives...
I'm more interested in the software. Much of it was implemented in
Forth and there were some very interesting aspects of the
implementation.
For my purposes, an accurate emulator is just as good (or even
better) than the original. I don't need to worry about flakey
components, or out-of-adjustment drives. I can run multiple sessions
To be fair, I've had a lot more problems with 'flakey components and
out-of-adjustment drives' on modern PCs (not mine I hasten to add..), and
indeed software problems, than on any classic I own.
for comparison and even hack the emulator code to trap
what I'm
interested in.
Isn't that what logic analysers are for :-) (Note the smiley...)
As far as "recreating the experience", I
honestly don't think it'
possible without the use of hynotism and some psychoactive drugs.
Probably not.
The alternative perspective is that I enjoy tracking down faults. To be
honest, a classic computer that works fine, and that I fully understand
the hardware of, is of less interest to me than one where I either have
to find and oscure logic fault, or have to work out how it really works
(possibly to be able to find said fault).
Pointless. Probably. It's like solving any puzzle...
I don't really care if it's implemented with
chicken nuggets and used
chewing gum--as long as it works and runs the software I'm interested
in.
Ah well... I'm a hardware guy to the core (literally :-)). Microcode is
OK, machine code is getting far too close to 'software' for my liking.
So, hang me for a heretic. :)
Not at all... Just a different interest, that's all
-tony
1:51 p.m.
On 30 Sep 2007 at 18:47, Tony Duell wrote:
Ah, I was momentarily forgetting Valdocs. My QX10 came
with CP/M and
that's all I've ever run on it. I find it's a pretty nice CP/M box,
actually....
Having cut my teeth on CP/M 1.30, I'm surprised that it lasted as
long as it did. Consider that it couldn't organize large volumes
well and couldn't even track the length of a file to anything closer
than 128 bytes.
It WAS fairly small, but even that went away with CP/M 3.0/CP/M Plus.
Something like the QX-10's Valdocs/TP/M interests me, particularly
the Forth implementation and the supplemental facilities, such as the
indexer.
I'm writing an archiver to convert my QX-10 diskettes to the .D88
format that the emulator needs. While perusing information on the
.D88 file format, I discovered an entire new world of Japanese NEC
9801 enthusiasts, complete with emulators and an operating system
called GR-DOS. From what I can gather, the 9801 was very popular
with Japanese gamers.
Ah well... I'm a hardware guy to the core
(literally :-)). Microcode is
OK, machine code is getting far too close to 'software' for my liking.
You must LOVE PPGAs then... :)
Cheers,
Chuck
6068
days inactive
6072
days old
20 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chrism3667＠yahoo.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
gordonjcp＠gjcp.net -
paco.linux＠gmail.com -
zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com