16 Jun
2004
16 Jun
'04
11:22 a.m.
I've put off asking about this in view of the discussion about what's
on/off topic, but I need some help from Those Who Know These Things.
My specific requirement is to put together a PC to run 22DISK, my
DOS-only PAL/PROM programmer software, and the like. It will run DOS
6.22 in a FAT16 partition (and probably WinXP in another partition
because I will not permit more than one PC in my workshop, but that
part is definitely off topic so I mention it no further). I want it to
be able to support single-density floppies, and eventually 8" drives
too.
Available "ingredients" are an Intel SE440BX motherboard (if it
matters) with a P2 400 and stupid Intel/Phoenix BIOS, a Teac FD-55GFR
5.25" floppy drive, choice of any number of 3.5" floppy drives, the
usual other bits that go to make a PC, and a few harddisk/floppy
controllers, including a Western Digital WD1006V-MM2 F002, and a
Western Digital WDAT-240. I have a couple of older no-name ISA floppy
cards but I suspect they won't support HD floppies (though I wonder if
they'd support 8" DD? Same speed...) and I probably have other 5.25"
drives somewhere. I picked those controllers, by the way, because they
have 37C65 FDCs and the magic second (9.6MHz) crystals and are reputed
to do SD correctly.
A problem is the braindamaged BIOS/mobo, which only handles one floppy.
Yes, really; not content with bastardising the interface to enable
cables-with-a-twist, they've removed all drive selects but one. No
pins, no PCB tracks, or in the words of the manual, "no connection".
However, if I disable the onboard FDC in the BIOS, I can persuade the
machine to see the FDC on a WD1006V-MM2. Only it won't boot; it gets
so far and then hangs. It almost looks as if disabling the FDC in the
BIOS actually disables support for an FDC at the primary address, and
MS-DOS can't complete the boot. Do I need to do something with
CONFIG.SYS? Maybe it would be better to leave the onboard FDC alone,
and use the WD controller as a secondary? I guess I do need DRIVER.SYS
for that, yes?
I have a similar problem with the HD controller. I want to use two IDE
channels, but I can't disable the HDC on a WD card; I can only change
the address between primary and secondary - and I can't even do that on
the WDAT-240, unless someone here knows something I don't. But I can't
get the PC to work properly with the IDE controller on the WDAT-240; if
I leave the onboard controller enabled, they fight, and if I disable
the onboard controller in the BIOS, it seems to stop the WD controller
working properly. Any suggestions?
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
16 Jun
16 Jun
11:57 a.m.
>> A problem is the braindamaged BIOS/mobo, which
only handles
>> one floppy.
Pete, altering the number of FDC/HDC from what the BIOS expects is typically
a significant problem as this is where all of the hardware access is routed
through. I have faced similar issues when attempting to use a PC motherboard
as the basis of a non-PC computer [embedded system type stuff].
Please feel free to contact me off list if you want to discuss this further.
I do not think there are any "simple" answers [although someone else may
have an idea, which is why I am publicly responding].
David
david(a)dynamicconcepts.us
17 Jun
17 Jun
11:29 a.m.
At 09:22 PM 6/16/04 +0100, you wrote:
I've put off asking about this in view of the discussion about what's
on/off topic, but I need some help from Those Who Know These Things.
My specific requirement is to put together a PC to run 22DISK, my
DOS-only PAL/PROM programmer software, and the like. It will run DOS
6.22 in a FAT16 partition (and probably WinXP in another partition
In that case, you might want to give this a try.
<http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/Articles/BootItNG/>. He says that it's
pretty good. Let me know how it works for you.
Joe
12:38 p.m.
On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 20:29, Joe R. wrote:
At 09:22 PM 6/16/04 +0100, you wrote:
I don't recall Pete saying he needed to tweak an existing partition on a
drive though - or is there some other justifcation for using that
software?
I've lost track of what the deal is with mixing DOS with modern versions
of Windows. I'm sure the current versions a few years ago weren't too
happy co-existing on the same drive (probably because both DOS and
Windows of the time made assumptions about them being the sole OS on the
drive. Windows certainly used to stomp all over the MBR which used to
drive me nuts! :-)
Currently I triple-boot the desktop PC between Linux, Windows 2k and DOS
6.22 - but I'm using SCSI disks, so Linux and Windows co-exist on the
larger drive and DOS has a seperate drive all to itself. I just change
the boot SCSI ID in the SCSI BIOS to boot from the DOS drive when I need
to. Not sure if there's an equivalent if you're using IDE drives though.
As an aside, I'm curious as to what (if any) equivalents to 22disk there
are for Linux. Certainly it's probably a more viable platform if you
want to have hardware fitted at strange addresses or outside the scope
of the BIOS than DOS is.
I have no idea what sort of control the kernel headers allow you over
the floppy controller(s) though. Of course you probably have a good
reason for using 22disk - either a) because it's there or b) because you
have images in 22disk's format (which I believe is proprietary and
undocumented, grr!) that you want to restore...
cheers
Jules
I've put off asking about this in view of the discussion about what's
on/off topic, but I need some help from Those Who Know These Things.
My specific requirement is to put together a PC to run 22DISK, my
DOS-only PAL/PROM programmer software, and the like. It will run DOS
6.22 in a FAT16 partition (and probably WinXP in another partition
In that case, you might want to give this a try.
<http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/Articles/BootItNG/>. He says that it's
pretty good. Let me know how it works for you. 
2:53 p.m.
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 20:29, Joe R. wrote:
I believe that you are confusing the capabilities of 22Disk with
that of other software. The purpose of 22Disk is to permit
reading, writing, and formatting CP/M disks on a DOS system. It
does not create disk images nor read them.
It is possible to recreate a system disk provided that you have
the appropriate disk definition suitably modified, a binary file
of the boot tracks, and an archive of the contents of the disk.
It works, but is a bit laborious.
- don
At 09:22 PM 6/16/04 +0100, you wrote:
I don't recall Pete saying he needed to tweak an existing partition on a
drive though - or is there some other justifcation for using that
software?
I've lost track of what the deal is with mixing DOS with modern versions
of Windows. I'm sure the current versions a few years ago weren't too
happy co-existing on the same drive (probably because both DOS and
Windows of the time made assumptions about them being the sole OS on the
drive. Windows certainly used to stomp all over the MBR which used to
drive me nuts! :-)
Currently I triple-boot the desktop PC between Linux, Windows 2k and DOS
6.22 - but I'm using SCSI disks, so Linux and Windows co-exist on the
larger drive and DOS has a seperate drive all to itself. I just change
the boot SCSI ID in the SCSI BIOS to boot from the DOS drive when I need
to. Not sure if there's an equivalent if you're using IDE drives though.
As an aside, I'm curious as to what (if any) equivalents to 22disk there
are for Linux. Certainly it's probably a more viable platform if you
want to have hardware fitted at strange addresses or outside the scope
of the BIOS than DOS is.
I have no idea what sort of control the kernel headers allow you over
the floppy controller(s) though. Of course you probably have a good
reason for using 22disk - either a) because it's there or b) because you
have images in 22disk's format (which I believe is proprietary and
undocumented, grr!) that you want to restore...
I've put off asking about this in view of the discussion about what's
on/off topic, but I need some help from Those Who Know These Things.
My specific requirement is to put together a PC to run 22DISK, my
DOS-only PAL/PROM programmer software, and the like. It will run DOS
6.22 in a FAT16 partition (and probably WinXP in another partition
In that case, you might want to give this a try.
<http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/Articles/BootItNG/>. He says that it's
pretty good. Let me know how it works for you. cheers
Jules
7374
days inactive
7375
days old
4 comments
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participants (5)
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donm＠cts.com -
dvcorbin＠optonline.net -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
pete＠dunnington.u-net.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com