23 Jan
2001
23 Jan
'01
10:16 a.m.
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23 Jan
23 Jan
11:06 a.m.
Easy, now, Tony ... I "feel your pain" (using the popular clintonism) about
the notion of standards with respect to folks working mainly with PC's, but
you must remember that the SUN-style DD50 for SCSI is not in the SCSI
standard. It's probably a better connector than the telco-style connector
that is, but it's so much more expensive (the same $30 that the IDC version
really does cost would buy two or three of the SCSI-1 cables at the local PC
store) that nobody really worries about it much.
BTW, DEC was the one that corrupted the notion of "standard" usage of the
connectors on serial I/O cabling. They were at one point the most
standardized users of the DB-25, with 'S' connectors on the bulkead and
'P'
types on the cables, but then they wandered away from their own usage
conventions. Once upon a time you could tell whether the cable was for DTE,
DCE, or was a null modem, just by looking for pin 20. If it was populated,
that end went to the terminal equipmen. If pin 6 was populated, it went to
DCE. If it had one at each end, it was a null modem cable. <sigh> Those
were the "good old days."
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 2:16 PM
Subject: DD50 SCSI connector
times.
>
> On 23 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote:
> > What kind of connector is it? How many pins, what does it measure? The
SUN
> > SCSI boxes I've encountered have either
used Mini-DB50 (modern ones)
or
> > Centronics-50 (big old ones).
>
> They're the large three row 50 pin D type (not centronics). Somebody
told
me off list
that they were the standard type on Sun 3 machines.
Sounds like a standard DD50 connector. It is one of the standard SCSI-1
connectors, used on all sorts of machines (Suns, PERQ 3as, etc).
One thing worth knowing about this connector is that if you take the IDC
version of the plug or socket and crimp it to a piece of 50 way ribbon
cable, the signals are in the same order as those on a piece of ribbon
cable crimped to the 50 pin Amphenol (often incorrectly called
'Centronics') connector or crimped to a 50 pin 2 row header socket to fit
the plug on a disk drive. So it's easy to make up adapters between the
DD50 connector and the Amphenol one (say) -- just crimp the connectors
onto a short piece of 50 way IDC ribbon cable, taking care to get pin 1
of each connector at the same end of the cable. I've done that several
The problem with this is that the DD50 IDC connectors are quite
complicated to make and thus expensive. Expect to pay \pounds 20.00 (say
$30) each for them.
It would appear that any connector not commonly used on PCs can't be a
'standard' to most people. I've got fed up with explaining to the goons
in the local PC shops that a standard serial port has 25 pins on a DB25
connector and that the DE9 serial port on PC/AT and later machines is not
a true standard. Oh well...
-tony
11:34 a.m.
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11:16 a.m.
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
'standard' to most people. I've got fed up
with explaining to the goons
in the local PC shops that a standard serial port has 25 pins on a DB25
You've made the classic mistake of thinking that the kind of person who
works in Tandy or PC World actually cares about the things that they sell.
On the rare occasions that I need to go into a high street shop, I just
keep my head down and try to scare away any assistants who get too close
with a blast of jargon (which sometimes backfires when they misinterpret
what I said to mean "I'm an idiot, please try to sell me an overpriced
PC"). Trying to explain things like the difference between a Winmodem and
a Hayes compatible modem, or active versus passive SCSI termination, is
almost always an exercise in futility.
--
------- Alex Holden -------
http://www.linuxhacker.org/
http://www.robogeeks.org/
11:39 a.m.
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12:17 p.m.
PC"). Trying to explain things like the difference between a Winmodem and
a Hayes compatible modem, or active versus passive SCSI termination, is
almost always an exercise in futility.
those Winmodems are some of the biggest pieces of junk. I'll
keep my Hayes-compatible modems which are usable with nearly
everything you can wire a serial port up to. My first modem wasn't
even Hayes compatible though....being a Racal-Vadic my dad had
connected to a terminal so that he could dial into his company's
mainframe. Took me forever to get my term. program to dial out on it
using DOS 2.11.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
24 Jan
24 Jan
8:04 a.m.
Alex Holden skrev:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
> 'standard' to most people. I've got fed up with explaining to the goons
> in the local PC shops that a standard serial port has 25 pins on a DB25
You've made the classic mistake of thinking that
the kind of person who
works in Tandy or PC World actually cares about the things that they sell.
On the rare occasions that I need to go into a high street shop, I just
keep my head down and try to scare away any assistants who get too close
with a blast of jargon (which sometimes backfires when they misinterpret
what I said to mean "I'm an idiot, please try to sell me an overpriced
PC"). Trying to explain things like the difference between a Winmodem and
a Hayes compatible modem, or active versus passive SCSI termination, is
almost always an exercise in futility.
Don't forget the classic "Oh no, you can't do that on platform XXX!" or
"What
are you going to do with that old junk?".
I usually just try to keep a low profile and give out as little information as
possible when buying something from mainstream shops.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6.
If you want to program in C, program in C. It's a nice language.
I use it occasionally... :-)
--Larry Wall (perl) in <7577(a)jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>
9:11 a.m.
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10:39 a.m.
I went into Radio Shack to get a soldering iron tip a few weeks ago, only to
find that they've finally started putting industry standard part numbers on
their blister-packed stuff. What a surprise to find not 239-???? but a
package that actually reflected the part number we're used to, e.g. 74LS367
and such.
Maybe that will take the pressure to learn what it is they're selling off
the help.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: DD50 SCSI connector
information
as
> Don't forget the classic "Oh no, you
can't do that on platform XXX!" or
"What
are you going
to do with that old junk?".
Thanks for reminding me -- NOT! :-)
Many years ago (this actually comes in the 'classic' timeframe), I
obtained a Sanders 12/7 printer. For those who don't know this piece of
engineering, it's a 7 pin dot matrix printer with enough mechanical
precision that it's worth doing 8 passes of the printhead for some fonts.
It was a text-only device (no downloadable fonts, no bitmap ability),
but it was a darn good text printer -- as well as having some letter
quality fonts, it would justify a paragraph of text internally, and print
it with both margins straight, and so on (of course the fonts were all
proportionally spaced...)
This machine came in several versions, but the one I have has an RS232
interface on it.
I wanted to drive it from my main computer at the time, which was a
TRS-80 Model 1. Fortunaately, unlike Sellam, I do have an RS232
interface. So all I needed was a null-modem cable.
I foolishly went into a computer shop to attempt to buy such a cable. I
took a long the manuals for the printer and the Model 1, just so I could
be sure what I wanted...
The shop told me that I couldn't use that printer with that computer, and
then attempted to sell me a printer. Needless to say I didn't buy said
printer, I went to the electronics shop in the same city and bought a
couple of DB25 plugs and a length of cable. Didn't take long to solder up
the right cable -- and yes, the Model 1 can print on a Sanders 12/7. I
used it for word processing until I managed to get the later version, a
Sanders 700. That has the same printhead, and same nice features, but
it's based on a Diablo 630 chassis and is somewhat easier to feed paper
in. That, in turn, was only retired when I got a laserprinter...
>
> I usually just try to keep a low profile and give out as little possible when
buying something from mainstream shops.
Ditto. Which is why I try to buy things by part number only. Pity some
shops make it difficult for me to do that....
-tony
25 Jan
25 Jan
2:52 a.m.
At 08:11 PM 1/24/01 +0000, you wrote:
Many years ago (this actually comes in the
'classic' timeframe), I
obtained a Sanders 12/7 printer. For those who don't know this piece of
engineering, it's a 7 pin dot matrix printer with enough mechanical
precision that it's worth doing 8 passes of the printhead for some fonts.
In the story of Terak's demise, they were bought by Calcomp,
which at the time (in the mid-late 80s) was owned by Sanders.
Later, Sanders was sold to Lockheed.
- John
24 Jan
24 Jan
9:14 a.m.
New subject: Dec field guide for Palm
Hello All,
For those who are using a Palm PDA, I have put the field guide into
a database. Mail me if you want a copy (+ tool, this is 'list').
The database is about 100K, the tool is 25Kb.
Ed
P.S. The database is not finished, but is usable.
--
The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters.
quapla(a)xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers:
zakkenvullers
http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars.
Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! |
'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!!
9:49 a.m.
New subject: Dec field guide for Palm
Cool! Can it be used in a HP 200 LX? If so, I'd like a copy.
Joe
At 07:14 PM 1/24/01 -0100, you wrote:
Hello All,
For those who are using a Palm PDA, I have put the field guide into
a database. Mail me if you want a copy (+ tool, this is 'list').
The database is about 100K, the tool is 25Kb.
Ed
P.S. The database is not finished, but is usable.
--
The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters.
quapla(a)xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers:
zakkenvullers
http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars.
Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! |
'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!!
25 Jan
25 Jan
9:32 a.m.
New subject: Dec field guide for Palm
Hi,
If the HP runs PalmOS then it can be used. Let me know and I'll send
it.
Regards,
Ed
Joe wrote:
Cool! Can it be used in a HP 200 LX? If so, I'd like a copy.
Joe
At 07:14 PM 1/24/01 -0100, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>For those who are using a Palm PDA, I have put the field guide into
>a database. Mail me if you want a copy (+ tool, this is 'list').
>The database is about 100K, the tool is 25Kb.
>
>Ed
>
>P.S. The database is not finished, but is usable.
>--
>The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters.
>quapla(a)xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers:
>zakkenvullers
>http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars.
>Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! |
>'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!!
>
--
The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters.
quapla(a)xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers:
zakkenvullers
http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars.
Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! |
'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!!
26 Jan
26 Jan
5:14 p.m.
New subject: Dec field guide for Palm
Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run PalmOS.
Joe
At 07:32 PM 1/25/01 -0100, you wrote:
Hi,
If the HP runs PalmOS then it can be used. Let me know and I'll send
it.
Regards,
Ed
Joe wrote:
Cool! Can it be used in a HP 200 LX? If so, I'd like a copy.
Joe
At 07:14 PM 1/24/01 -0100, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>For those who are using a Palm PDA, I have put the field guide into
>a database. Mail me if you want a copy (+ tool, this is 'list').
>The database is about 100K, the tool is 25Kb.
>
>Ed
>
>P.S. The database is not finished, but is usable.
>--
>The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters.
>quapla(a)xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers:
>zakkenvullers
>http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars.
>Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! |
>'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!!
>
--
The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters.
quapla(a)xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers:
zakkenvullers
http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars.
Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! |
'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!!
27 Jan
27 Jan
3:26 a.m.
New subject: Dec field guide for Palm
At 08:21 PM 1/26/01 -0800, you wrote:
Yeap, that will do nicely.
Joe
Nope, it
runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run PalmOS.
Joe
Then it sounds like you only need the ancient DOS program LIST.COM, and the
text file of the fieldguide, right?
Zane 
26 Jan
26 Jan
6:43 p.m.
New subject: OT: Re: Dec field guide for Palm
>If the HP runs PalmOS then it can be used. Let me
know and I'll send
>it.
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Joe wrote:
Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run
PalmOS.
This may be stretching things. A lot.
The Code Warrior package for software development for PalmOS is available
in Mac and Windoze versions. It includes a Palm emulator.
Would the HP be capable of running that emulator?
11:30 p.m.
New subject: Dec field guide for Palm
3Com's Palm Pilot line, Handspring's Visor/Platinum/Prism and a couple
others run PalmOS but there is a PalmDOS that runs on within PalmOS, much
the same as a TRSDOS emulator runs on DOS. I haven't yet seen a DOS or
Windows shell that emulates PalmOS
I have a Handspring Visor Deluxe and can't recall the Motorola cpu it uses.
I know the newer monchrome and color ones has a different processor than
them but in the same category.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 10:15 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Dec field guide for Palm
Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run PalmOS.
Joe
At 07:32 PM 1/25/01 -0100, you wrote:
Hi,
If the HP runs PalmOS then it can be used. Let me know and I'll send
it.
Regards,
Ed
Joe wrote:
Cool! Can it be used in a HP 200 LX? If so, I'd like a copy.
Joe
At 07:14 PM 1/24/01 -0100, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>For those who are using a Palm PDA, I have put the field guide into
>a database. Mail me if you want a copy (+ tool, this is 'list').
>The database is about 100K, the tool is 25Kb.
>
>Ed
>
>P.S. The database is not finished, but is usable.
>--
>The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters.
>quapla(a)xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers:
>zakkenvullers
>http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars.
>Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! |
>'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!!
>
--
The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters.
quapla(a)xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers:
zakkenvullers
http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars.
Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! |
'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!!
11:59 p.m.
New subject: Dec field guide for Palm
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Joe wrote:
Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run
PalmOS.
The Mindspring Visor does too.
--
------- Alex Holden -------
http://www.linuxhacker.org/
http://www.robogeeks.org/
8577
days inactive
8581
days old
18 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
alex＠linuxhacker.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
optimus＠canit.se -
quapla＠xs4all.nl -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
russ＠rbcs.8m.com