27 May
2008
27 May
'08
1:03 a.m.
Hi,
I've got here some electronic modules made by Venner Electronics LTD,
Kingston By-Pass, New Malden, Surrey. One is a Transistor Decade Unit
type TS.10/5 and the other just has Type TS 11/HF on it, where 11/HF is
scratched into the metal label.
Opening one reveals a number of Mullard OC44 Ge transistors.
What on earth are they for? I can imagine they're for some sort of
digital machine or even a whole computer, but I can't find any
information about them or the company.
Thanks,
Alexis.
27 May
27 May
1:30 a.m.
Opening one reveals a number of Mullard OC44 Ge transistors.
What on earth are they for? I can imagine they're for some sort of
digital machine or even a whole computer, but I can't find any
information about them or the company.
According to my tube and transistorhandbook (1965), the OC44 can be used for
HF amplifier and mixer.
Details :
- PNP
- dissipation : 83 mw
- Vce : 15
- Hfe : 100
- Fab : 15 MHz
- Ico : 0,5 uA
Made by Amperex, Mullard, Philips, Valvo
1:38 a.m.
On Tuesday, May 27, 2008, at 06:00 PM, Nico de Jong wrote:
Sorry I was referring to the modules, not the transistors :)
Opening one reveals a number of Mullard OC44 Ge transistors.
What on earth are they for? I can imagine they're for some sort of
digital machine or even a whole computer, but I can't find any
information about them or the company.
According to my tube and transistorhandbook (1965), the OC44 can be
used for
HF amplifier and mixer.
Details :
- PNP
- dissipation : 83 mw
- Vce : 15
- Hfe : 100
- Fab : 15 MHz
- Ico : 0,5 uA
Made by Amperex, Mullard, Philips, Valvo
3:11 a.m.
Alexis <thrashbarg at kaput.homeunix.org> writes:
[...] but I can't find any information about them
or the company.
Searching for "Venner Electronics" on Google finds a few articles from
the 1960s suggesting they were a test equipment manufacturer building
digital voltmeters, frequency counters, oscillators and similar.
For example, here are adverts for some of their products in the
Journal of Scientific Instruments:
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0950-7671/38/10/423
The DVM described can be "connected directly to a Venner printer
and/or reperforator, for the operation of which a print command pulse
is provided at the completion of each conversion". Pretty cool stuff
for 1961.
--
Adam Sampson <ats at offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
8:42 a.m.
Adam Sampson wrote:
For example, here are adverts for some of their
products in the
Journal of Scientific Instruments:
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0950-7671/38/10/423
I've just pulled that article from the IOP site - the device in question
(TSA-3336) is described as a "low priced instrument using transistor plug-in
modules". It's basically a frequency counter / pulse width measurement box.
Might be worth looking into, especially the "transistor modules" reference.
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
9:40 a.m.
New subject: [personal] Venner Electronics Modules
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexis" <thrashbarg at kaput.homeunix.org>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 9:03 AM
Subject: [personal] Venner Electronics Modules
Hi,
I've got here some electronic modules made by Venner Electronics LTD,
Kingston By-Pass, New Malden, Surrey. One is a Transistor Decade Unit type
TS.10/5 and the other just has Type TS 11/HF on it, where 11/HF is
scratched into the metal label.
Venner made high end counters, dvm's and the like, we used quite a lot of
them at N.G.T.E Pyestock.
Opening one reveals a number of Mullard OC44 Ge
transistors.
I believe rare now, used in the Elliott 803B computer and other in the
range.
If in the UK and no other use for them consider the The National Museum of
Computing at Bletchley Park - http://www.tnmoc.co.uk/index.htm they run an
Elliott 803B and need spare OC44/OC45's
What on earth are they for? I can imagine they're for some sort of digital
machine or even a whole computer, but I can't find any information about
them or the company.
Thanks,
Alexis.
Mike
9:49 a.m.
I had one of the counters that used the modules (parts still around in
the loft somewhere), they also iirc offered them for sale as general
purpose modules (I may have a brochure)
Dave Caroline
On 5/27/08, Alexis <thrashbarg at kaput.homeunix.org> wrote:
Hi,
I've got here some electronic modules made by Venner Electronics LTD,
Kingston By-Pass, New Malden, Surrey. One is a Transistor Decade Unit type
TS.10/5 and the other just has Type TS 11/HF on it, where 11/HF is scratched
into the metal label.
Opening one reveals a number of Mullard OC44 Ge transistors.
What on earth are they for? I can imagine they're for some sort of digital
machine or even a whole computer, but I can't find any information about
them or the company.
Thanks,
Alexis.
12:52 p.m.
Alexis wrote:
Hi,
I've got here some electronic modules made by Venner Electronics LTD,
Kingston By-Pass, New Malden, Surrey. One is a Transistor Decade Unit
type TS.10/5 and the other just has Type TS 11/HF on it, where 11/HF is
scratched into the metal label.
Opening one reveals a number of Mullard OC44 Ge transistors.
What on earth are they for? I can imagine they're for some sort of
digital machine or even a whole computer, but I can't find any
information about them or the company.
I have a Venner TSA 3336 counter that uses those modules, as well as the
leaflet-style manuals for the various modules.
Pictures and description of the counter and modules are at:
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/edte/VennerTSA3336/index.html
The novel thing about the counter is it uses meter-projection displays
(horribly finicky things).
The counter modules are typical 4 flip-flop decade counters, including 4
resistors in a simple D-A arrangement to drive the meter-projection displays.
According to the leaflets the 10/5 is a decade counter good to 30KHz, the 11/HF
is a decade 'selector' (same but has all outputs brought out to a connector),
good to 1MHz.
29 May
29 May
2:44 p.m.
Brent Hilpert wrote:
I have a Venner TSA 3336 counter that uses those
modules, as well as the
leaflet-style manuals for the various modules.
Pictures and description of the counter and modules are at:
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/edte/VennerTSA3336/index.html
I have a Venner frequency meter with lots of discrete transistor
counting circuits and (I think) the same type of digit-projection
displays. I'll have to dig it out and get some good photos.
--
John Honniball
coredump at gifford.co.uk
4 Jun
4 Jun
1:23 a.m.
Brent browsing your site and I came accross some HP part number cross
references on http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/HP21xx/CTL.html
In an HP "bench briefs" publication dated 3rd and 4th quarters 1990
they listed the hp part number, the makers code and part number
HP Maker Partnumber ,your info
1820-0186 02237 9856DC , ? dual 2-in AND, dual
resistors B2,2100
1820-0187 02237 9852DC ,? ? dual 2-in NOR, dual
resistors B2,2100
1820-0482 02237 9838DC ,? ? binary to 1-of-8 decoder 2100
1820-0485 02237 9816DC ,? ? hex level restorer (2-in
AND, quint 1-in) 2100
1820-0952 02237 952DC ,9952 SL3455 dual 2-in NOR F66,B2,2100
1820-0953 02237 953DC ,9953 SL3456 dual 2-in AND,
3-in AND F66,B2,2100
1820-0954 9954 ? dual 4-in AND F66,B2,2100
1820-0955 9955 ? 8-in AND F66,B2,2100
1820-0956 9956 SL3459 dual 2-in AND Buffer F66,B2,2100
1820-0957 9957 ? MS FF F66,B2,2100
1820-0964 9964 ? dual 3-in AND, 1-in gate, OR'able F66,B2,2100
1820-0965 9965 ? quad 1-in gate, OR'able F66,B2,2100
1820-0966 9966 ? quad 2-in AND, 2 outputs ORed F66,B2,2100
1820-0967 9967 ? JK FF F66,B2,2100
1820-0968 9968 ? dual Latch F66,B2,2100
1820-0971 9971 SL3467 quad 2-in AND, outputs ORed in 2 pairs F66,B2,2100
1820-0972 ? ? dual 2-in NOR, dual resistors 2100
1820-0973 ? ? dual 2-in AND, 3-in AND 2100
1820-0974 ? ? dual 2-in AND, dual resistors 2100
1820-0975
On 5/27/08, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote:
Alexis wrote:
Hi,
I've got here some electronic modules made by Venner Electronics LTD,
Kingston By-Pass, New Malden, Surrey. One is a Transistor Decade Unit
type TS.10/5 and the other just has Type TS 11/HF on it, where 11/HF is
scratched into the metal label.
Opening one reveals a number of Mullard OC44 Ge transistors.
What on earth are they for? I can imagine they're for some sort of
digital machine or even a whole computer, but I can't find any
information about them or the company.
I have a Venner TSA 3336 counter that uses those modules, as well as the
leaflet-style manuals for the various modules.
Pictures and description of the counter and modules are at:
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/edte/VennerTSA3336/index.html
The novel thing about the counter is it uses meter-projection displays
(horribly finicky things).
The counter modules are typical 4 flip-flop decade counters, including 4
resistors in a simple D-A arrangement to drive the meter-projection displays.
According to the leaflets the 10/5 is a decade counter good to 30KHz, the 11/HF
is a decade 'selector' (same but has all outputs brought out to a connector),
good to 1MHz.
1:38 a.m.
oops got sent too soon
Brent browsing your site and I came accross some HP part number cross
references on http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/HP21xx/CTL.html
In an HP "bench briefs" publication dated 3rd and 4th quarters 1990
they listed the hp part number, the makers code and part number
HP Maker Partnumber ,your info
1820-0186 02237 9856DC , ? dual 2-in AND, dual
resistors B2,2100
1820-0187 02237 9852DC ,? ? dual 2-in NOR, dual
resistors B2,2100
1820-0482 02237 9838DC ,? ? binary to 1-of-8
decoder 2100
1820-0485 02237 9816DC ,? ? hex level restorer (2-in
AND, quint 1-in) 2100
1820-0952 02237 952DC ,9952 SL3455 dual 2-in
NOR F66,B2,2100
1820-0953 02237 953DC ,9953 SL3456 dual 2-in AND,
3-in AND F66,B2,2100
1820-0954 02237 954DC ,9954 ? dual 4-in AND F66,B2,2100
1820-0955 02237 955DC ,9955 ? 8-in AND F66,B2,2100
1820-0956 02237 956DC ,9956 SL3459 dual 2-in AND
Buffer F66,B2,2100
1820-0957 02237 957DC ,9957 ? MS FF F66,B2,2100
1820-0964 02237 964DC ,9964 ? dual 3-in AND, 1-in
gate, OR'able F66,B2,2100
1820-0965 02237 965DC ,9965 ? quad 1-in gate, OR'able
F66,B2,2100
1820-0966 02237 966DC ,9966 ? quad 2-in AND, 2
outputs ORed F66,B2,2100
1820-0967 02237 967DC ,9967 ? JK FF F66,B2,2100
1820-0968 02237 968DC ,9968 ? dual Latch F66,B2,2100
1820-0971 02237 971DC ,9971 SL3467 quad 2-in AND,
outputs ORed in 2 pairs F66,B2,2100
1820-0972 02237 952DC ,? ? dual 2-in NOR, dual resistors 2100
1820-0973 02237 953DC ,? ? dual 2-in AND, 3-in AND 2100
1820-0974 02237 956DC ,? ? dual 2-in AND, dual resistors 2100
1820-0975 02237 967DC ,? ? JK FF (similar to -0967) 2100
Dave Caroline
ps this list needs a full typing up/OCR so we can all use it
5 Jun
5 Jun
12:34 a.m.
New subject: HP 2100 & CTuL ICs / was Re: Venner Electronics Modules
Fills in a few blanks, most of those unID'd ICs were late (~1970?) additions to
the CTuL series that appeared in the 2100A/S docs. Perhaps the stranger thing
is that they were being listed in the bench briefs in 1990, long after they
were obsolete. What was the context of their mention?
(Couldn't find 02237 in the HP manufacturer's list that I have).
Dave Caroline wrote:
oops got sent too soon
Brent browsing your site and I came accross some HP part number cross
references on http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/HP21xx/CTL.html
In an HP "bench briefs" publication dated 3rd and 4th quarters 1990
they listed the hp part number, the makers code and part number
HP Maker Partnumber ,your info
1820-0186 02237 9856DC , ? dual 2-in AND, dual
resistors B2,2100
1820-0187 02237 9852DC ,? ? dual 2-in NOR, dual
resistors B2,2100
1820-0482 02237 9838DC ,? ? binary to 1-of-8
decoder 2100
1820-0485 02237 9816DC ,? ? hex level restorer (2-in
AND, quint 1-in) 2100
1820-0952 02237 952DC ,9952 SL3455 dual 2-in
NOR F66,B2,2100
1820-0953 02237 953DC ,9953 SL3456 dual 2-in AND,
3-in AND F66,B2,2100
1820-0954 02237 954DC ,9954 ? dual 4-in AND F66,B2,2100
1820-0955 02237 955DC ,9955 ? 8-in AND F66,B2,2100
1820-0956 02237 956DC ,9956 SL3459 dual 2-in AND
Buffer F66,B2,2100
1820-0957 02237 957DC ,9957 ? MS FF F66,B2,2100
1820-0964 02237 964DC ,9964 ? dual 3-in AND, 1-in
gate, OR'able F66,B2,2100
1820-0965 02237 965DC ,9965 ? quad 1-in gate, OR'able
F66,B2,2100
1820-0966 02237 966DC ,9966 ? quad 2-in AND, 2
outputs ORed F66,B2,2100
1820-0967 02237 967DC ,9967 ? JK FF F66,B2,2100
1820-0968 02237 968DC ,9968 ? dual Latch F66,B2,2100
1820-0971 02237 971DC ,9971 SL3467 quad 2-in AND,
outputs ORed in 2 pairs F66,B2,2100
1820-0972 02237 952DC ,? ? dual 2-in NOR, dual resistors
2100
1820-0973 02237 953DC ,? ? dual 2-in AND, 3-in AND
2100
1820-0974 02237 956DC ,? ? dual 2-in AND, dual resistors
2100
1820-0975 02237 967DC ,? ? JK FF (similar to -0967)
2100
Dave Caroline
ps this list needs a full typing up/OCR so we can all use it
1:03 a.m.
New subject: HP 2100 & CTuL ICs / was Re: Venner Electronics Modules
Context of the mention seems to be just a full listing for HP bench
engineers (it was obtained from an HP engineer) I only have a photo
copy of the listing pages (some cut off at the left) I shall scan as
soon as I can, an OCR is needed. It also covers Transistors and
Diodes. I will look up 02237 in some old manuals when I get chance (I
have a few, not catalogued all yet but
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv10.php?srcdata=title&srcpro…
), I just looked in some PDF's and didnt find it, I can see another
list we need to make by trawling through the old manuals for
manufacturers codes.
Dave Caroline
On 6/5/08, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote:
Fills in a few blanks, most of those unID'd ICs
were late (~1970?) additions to
the CTuL series that appeared in the 2100A/S docs. Perhaps the stranger thing
is that they were being listed in the bench briefs in 1990, long after they
were obsolete. What was the context of their mention?
(Couldn't find 02237 in the HP manufacturer's list that I have).
27 May
27 May
2:25 p.m.
Hi,
I've got here some electronic modules made by Venner Electronics LTD,
Kingston By-Pass, New Malden, Surrey. One is a Transistor Decade Unit
AFAIK the company is no longer there, the road is (and is better known as
the A3). Not that that helps you much.
type TS.10/5 and the other just has Type TS 11/HF on
it, where 11/HF is
scratched into the metal label.
Opening one reveals a number of Mullard OC44 Ge transistors.
A well-known germanium RF transistor....
What on earth are they for? I can imagine they're for some sort of
digital machine or even a whole computer, but I can't find any
information about them or the company.
Venner are farily well-known for control and measuremnt devices. Venner
timeswitches, for example, were widely used for street lamp control [1].
My guess is that these modules, in particular the decade counter, were
used in some kind fo DVM/frequency counter [2]
[1] They had an amzing (if OT) think called a 'solar dial'. Not much
thicker than a normal timeswithc dial, this thing had a star wheel that
was flipped on one position by a pin on the timeswitch chassis once per
revolution (day). there was a gear train built into the dial that caused
a sleeve around the cetnral spindle to rotate once per year, and a pair
of cams that moved the on and off levers so as to correct for the sunrise
and sunset times. When used for streetlamp control you got lights that
turned on and off at the right time.
[2] Such things were around before transistors. Somewhere I have a
_valved_ DVM [3], and HP made a valved frequency counter. I've got an
article somwehre for a 10 it successive-approximation ADC, punching the
output as 2 rows of 5 level paper tape, built from relays and a
uniselector. The comparator is one of those sensitive moving-coil relays,
for example
[3] It was given to my school (the worst thing to do to any piece of
historic equipment IMHO). It didn't work, the teachers couldn't see the
point of it, and alas before I got to hear of it, some idiot had started
raiding it for the precision resistors. I realised what it was before too
much damage had been done, and managed ot get them to give it to me. But
it's going to be a lot of work to get going again.
-tony
3:19 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
[3] It was given to my school (the worst thing to do
to any piece of
historic equipment IMHO). It didn't work, the teachers couldn't see the
point of it, and alas before I got to hear of it, some idiot had started
raiding it for the precision resistors. I realised what it was before too
much damage had been done, and managed ot get them to give it to me. But
it's going to be a lot of work to get going again.
I suspect the resistors will not be hard to replace, as resistor quality
has gone up over the years. What is sad is the loss of well designed
equipment since the puter era.
-tony
5:37 p.m.
On Tuesday 27 May 2008 18:19, bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
Tony Duell wrote:
Yes indeed. Ever since I got a whole lot of those manuals I've been lusting
after some of that GenRad stuff, even though there's no way in hell I can
possibly justify the purchase of any test equipment...
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
[3] It was given to my school (the worst thing to
do to any piece of
historic equipment IMHO). It didn't work, the teachers couldn't see the
point of it, and alas before I got to hear of it, some idiot had started
raiding it for the precision resistors. I realised what it was before too
much damage had been done, and managed ot get them to give it to me. But
it's going to be a lot of work to get going again.
I suspect the resistors will not be hard to replace, as resistor quality
has gone up over the years. What is sad is the loss of well designed
equipment since the puter era.
28 May
28 May
1:11 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Otaining replacement resistors is not a problem. The problem is that the
guy who started stripping it did not (obviously) document what he was
ripping apart. So I have no idea what resistors were removed, or how they
were connected. This thing is built on tagboards, the resistors could
have gone in several different orientations. And wires were cut to get to
bits of the instrument :-(
No, I don't have a servive manual, or a scheamtic. I doubt I'll ever get
an official one. The only possible way forward seems to be to work out
what I have and work out what would most likely have been added to make
it work.
[3] It was given to my school (the worst thing to
do to any piece of
historic equipment IMHO). It didn't work, the teachers couldn't see the
point of it, and alas before I got to hear of it, some idiot had started
raiding it for the precision resistors. I realised what it was before too
much damage had been done, and managed ot get them to give it to me. But
it's going to be a lot of work to get going again.
I suspect the resistors will not be hard to replace, as resistor quality
has gone up over the years. What is sad is the loss of
well designed
equipment since the puter era.
Agreed. I am not sure what you mean by 'puter era', but there were a
number of post-war measuring instruments, etc, that while not directely
computer-related (or even digital) are certainly worth preserving.
-tony
5818
days inactive
5827
days old
16 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ats＠offog.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk -
coredump＠gifford.co.uk -
dave.thearchivist＠gmail.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
mike＠brickfieldspark.org -
nico＠farumdata.dk -
rtellason＠verizon.net -
thrashbarg＠kaput.homeunix.org