1 Jul
2011
1 Jul
'11
2:26 a.m.
I'll second that plea. I have a full 9221 mainframe (2 IO cages and 5
DASD) but NO cables. Sigh. Haven't found any here in England so far. So if
there are stacks of them eating up space under your raised floor, or in
your garage, please consider me too!
Thanks,
Colin Eby
1 Jul
1 Jul
8:24 a.m.
New subject: Seeking old IBM mainframe terminal
I'd like to get an old IBM mainframe terminal...so that I can also get an appropriate
model 3174 control unit and hook the terminal up to my
Hercules-emulated mainframe.
Any suggestions on where to find an inexpensive mainframe terminal these days?
Thank!
-Bob
bbrown at harpercollege.edu ####? #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR
Harper Community College ##? ##? ## Supervisor of Operations
Palatine IL USA????????? ####? #### Saved by grace
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf
Of Colin Eby
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 4:27 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Seeking surplus IBM bus / tag cables and terminators?
I'll second that plea. I have a full 9221 mainframe (2 IO cages and 5
DASD) but NO cables. Sigh. Haven't found any here in England so far. So if
there are stacks of them eating up space under your raised floor, or in
your garage, please consider me too!
Thanks,
Colin Eby
10:53 a.m.
New subject: Seeking old IBM mainframe terminal
On 7/1/11 11:24 AM, Bob Brown wrote:
I'd like to get an old IBM mainframe terminal...so
that I can also get an appropriate model 3174 control unit and hook the terminal up to my
Hercules-emulated mainframe.
Any suggestions on where to find an inexpensive mainframe terminal these days?
Seconded, for the same reason. There were gazillions of them made,
but they all seem to have disappeared.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
12:03 p.m.
New subject: Seeking old IBM mainframe terminal
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 7/1/11 11:24 AM, Bob Brown wrote:
Ahh, I see the Nazgul have reclaimed their minions....
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
I'd like to get an old IBM mainframe
terminal...so that I can also get an
appropriate model 3174 control unit and hook the terminal up to my
Hercules-emulated mainframe.
Any suggestions on where to find an inexpensive mainframe terminal these
days?
Seconded, for the same reason. There were gazillions of them made, but
they all seem to have disappeared.
12:15 p.m.
New subject: Seeking old IBM mainframe terminal
I'd like to get an old IBM mainframe terminal...so
that I can also get an appropriate model 3174 control unit and hook the terminal up to my
Hercules-emulated mainframe.
Any suggestions on where to find an inexpensive mainframe terminal these days?
Generally $100 will get one from a reseller. Most of these guys have
stacks of late model IBM 3270 family terminals, and these days there
is just not a whole lot of call for them. Otherwise, put out feelers
with the mainframers you know. There are still quite a lot of
terminals out there, disused in data centers.
Real first generation 3277s are getting damn scarce.
--
Will
9:19 a.m.
I'll second that plea. ?I have a full 9221
mainframe (2 IO cages and 5
DASD) but NO cables. Sigh. Haven't found any here in England so far. ?So if
there are stacks of them eating up space under your raised floor, or in
your garage, please consider me too!
Colo spaces that date back to the mainframe days are great places to
find Bus and Tag cables. The hard part is convincing the manager to
let you dig them out.
--
Will
9:25 a.m.
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011, William Donzelli wrote:
What IS a "Bus and Tag" cable and what about them makes them difficult to
make?
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
I'll
second that plea. ?I have a full 9221 mainframe (2 IO cages and 5
DASD) but NO cables. Sigh. Haven't found any here in England so far. ?So if
there are stacks of them eating up space under your raised floor, or in
your garage, please consider me too!
Colo spaces that date back to the mainframe days are great places to
find Bus and Tag cables. The hard part is convincing the manager to
let you dig them out.
9:31 a.m.
On 7/1/11 12:25 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
What IS a "Bus and Tag" cable and what about them makes them difficult
to make?
B&T is the "parallel channel" interface found on most IBM mainframes.
There are two cables, "bus" which carries data, and "tag" which
carries protocol and handshaking information. B&T, if memory serves, is
good for about 4.5Mbps.
The cables are just a pain. This technology dates back to the 1960s,
and it uses big heavy cables about 1" in diameter, and big huge bizarre
connectors.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I'll second that plea. I have a full 9221
mainframe (2 IO cages and 5
DASD) but NO cables. Sigh. Haven't found any here in England so far.
So if
there are stacks of them eating up space under your raised floor, or in
your garage, please consider me too!
Colo spaces that date back to the mainframe days are great places to
find Bus and Tag cables. The hard part is convincing the manager to
let you dig them out.
9:40 a.m.
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 7/1/11 12:25 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
What IS a "Bus and Tag" cable and what about them makes them difficult
to make?
B&T is the "parallel channel" interface found on most IBM mainframes.
There are two cables, "bus" which carries data, and "tag" which
carries
protocol and handshaking information. B&T, if memory serves, is good for
about 4.5Mbps.
The cables are just a pain. This technology dates back to the 1960s, and
it uses big heavy cables about 1" in diameter, and big huge bizarre
connectors.
Thanks for the info Dave. I wonder why they went that route... Seems
kinda kludgy. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
I'll second that plea. I have a full 9221
mainframe (2 IO cages and 5
DASD) but NO cables. Sigh. Haven't found any here in England so far.
So if
there are stacks of them eating up space under your raised floor, or in
your garage, please consider me too!
Colo spaces that date back to the mainframe days are great places to
find Bus and Tag cables. The hard part is convincing the manager to
let you dig them out.
9:46 a.m.
On 7/1/11 12:40 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
Thanks for the info Dave. I wonder why they went that route... Seems
kinda kludgy. :)
Well like I said, 1960s...not many established standards back then
for this sort of stuff.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
What IS a "Bus and Tag" cable and what about
them makes them difficult
to make?
B&T is the "parallel channel" interface found on most IBM mainframes.
There are two cables, "bus" which carries data, and "tag" which
carries protocol and handshaking information. B&T, if memory serves,
is good for about 4.5Mbps.
The cables are just a pain. This technology dates back to the 1960s,
and it uses big heavy cables about 1" in diameter, and big huge
bizarre connectors.
7:42 p.m.
Dave wrote about IBM bus/tag cables:
The cables are just a pain. This technology dates back
to the 1960s,
and it uses big heavy cables about 1" in diameter, and big huge
bizarre connectors.
Gene wrote:
Thanks for the info Dave. I wonder why they went that
route... Seems
kinda kludgy. :)
So you know of some other interface they could have used in 1963 that
could transfer over megabyte per second?
I suppose everything about 1960s computers might seem "kinda kludgy"
now, but IMNSHO IBM did a phenomenally good job of developing the
channel OEMI standard. It was popular for thirty years, so they clearly
must have done something right.
Eric
10:31 a.m.
?I wonder why they went that route... Seems kinda
kludgy. :)
That was the way back in the 1960s and 70s, when metal was cheap.
Burroughs did the same, as did DEC. CDC was different, using fairly
lightweight cables, but still with odd connectors.
I never understood why IBM made the Bus and Tag connectors
hermaphroditic and not keyed. I think all it did was create confusion.
--
Will
10:58 a.m.
IBM started out with typewriter repairmen who became unit record
equipment repairment who became mainframe repairmen.
Other thatn "grey away" and remembering which end of a 100' cable goes
to which storage director when you get there the system is pretty simple
and robust. They simply don't work when you swap them .
YOu could get in trouble when you had a controller to unit use where
there was a single cable, never saw what happ3ned if you took a 3803
tape controller to 3420 tape unit cable and ran it to a bus / tag
connector, but hopefully not flames.
as some guys around here who I have complained at about having to do a
lot of manual operations as root (from instruction sheets) and not
automating the stuff say "if you screw up you won't do it twice".
Or if you do it twice you didn't learn to be more careful the first time.
Jim
On 7/1/2011 10:31 AM, William Donzelli wrote:
I wonder why
they went that route... Seems kinda
kludgy. :)
That was the way back in the 1960s and 70s, when metal was cheap.
Burroughs did the same, as did DEC. CDC was different, using fairly
lightweight cables, but still with odd connectors.
I never understood why IBM made the Bus and Tag connectors
hermaphroditic and not keyed. I think all it did was create confusion.
--
Will
11:09 a.m.
On 1 Jul 2011 at 13:31, William Donzelli wrote:
CDC was different, using fairly lightweight cables,
but still with odd
connectors.
Perhaps you're talking about 3000-series peripherals. IIRC, the 6000-
series channels used bundles of coax that were terminated in taper
pins. No connectors per se. The 3000-series cables were twisted-
pair with real connectors. 6000-series hardware used 3000-series
unit-record peripherals via a 6681/84 channel converter.
I could be remembering wrongly.
--Chuck
12:18 p.m.
Perhaps you're talking about 3000-series
peripherals. ?IIRC, the 6000-
series channels used bundles of coax that were terminated in taper
pins. ?No connectors per se. ?The 3000-series cables were twisted-
pair with real connectors. ?6000-series hardware used 3000-series
unit-record peripherals via a 6681/84 channel converter.
I could be remembering wrongly.
I am thinking about the Cyber 170 channel cables.
--
Will
1:13 p.m.
Colo spaces that date back to the mainframe days are great places to
find Bus and Tag cables. The hard part is convincing the manager to
let you dig them out.
One time when I was doing a rescue, I was told I could take everything in
the racks, but not to try to pull out the ribbon cables that went under
the raised floor. Appareltny doing so was likely to raise clounds of dust
that would trigger the fire detectors.
Fortunately, they were just plain IDC ribbon cables so I wasn;t _too_
worried, Had they been anything rare, I might have tried to find a way to
do it.
-tony
4705
days inactive
4706
days old
17 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bbrown＠harpercollege.edu -
cclist＠sydex.com -
ceby2＠csc.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
jws＠jwsss.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mikelee＠tdh.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com