21 Jan
2014
21 Jan
'14
6:23 p.m.
I was handed a pile of 88mb Syquest disks - ostenisibly Mac formatted
- a while back and I decided to have a go at them tonight. The only
Syquest drives I found in my pile were the original 44mb and the later
200mb (model 5200C.) Everything I can find on this drive (which isn't
much) declares that is is backward *read* compatible with 44mb and
88mb cartridges. That's fine, reading is all I want to do.
My test platform is Win7 x64 (boo hoo I know...but it's convenient and
there is a working 'dd' I've used many times for hard disk imaging.)
I first tested the drive with a 200mb pack I already had. It mounted
the cart, presented it to the OS and allowed me to dd the cart to an
image file which mounted in a Mac emulator. I declared the drive
good.
Trying 88mb carts results in consistent errors. The drive sounds like
it's mounting it, clicks a bit, spins up and down and finally settled
on a 5-green, 5-amber blink code. According to this chart:
http://www.kassj.com/articles/sqtable.html
that means "incompatible cartridge." My carts are all
Syquest-branded. Beyond that (and the possible Mac formatting,) I
know nothing else about them.
The real rub is this - once it displays that error code, the drive
_disappears_ from the SCSI chain. Neither the OS tools nor a SCSI
explorer utility find it. Insert the 200mb cart and it's back again;
not even a power-cycle needed. The drive does appear with a SCSI ID
before inserting a cart; a mounted cart is not necessary for it to
present itself.
So, theories:
- This drive isn't 88mb compatible after all
- *All* my carts are bad
- The carts were degaussed and thereby lost some sort of low-level
formatting or other ID method that the drive uses to recognize them
- There's some sort of mode jumper or switch (hardware/software) to
kick it into 88mb compatibility mode, if such a thing exists. I have
no manual for these drives
- I need some sort of driver to enable reading 88mb carts; I don't
think this is the case - most OSes should simply see them as removable
media; it's the drive's job to sort out cart compatibility
Any experience/insight/advice is appreciated here. Also offers of a
88mb Syquest drive :)
-- jht
22 Jan
22 Jan
2:02 a.m.
New subject: SyQuest Drives - 200 vs 88
I worked at SyQuest in the 90s and have some vague recollection of the 200
MB product. So to the best of my recollection regarding yr theories:
- This drive isn't 88mb compatible after all
The 200 MB drives were able to read the 88 MB ones; slowly as I recall.
- *All* my carts are bad
Not likely. Are they
SyQuest cartridges? I seem to recall SyQuest did try
to exclude Nomai/Iomega cartridges from being used on the 200 MB and u may
have run into that problem.
- The carts were degaussed and thereby lost some
sort of low-level
formatting or other ID method that the drive uses to recognize them
The drive would
never come ready if it were degaussed since that would erase
the servo data.
- There's some sort of mode jumper or switch
(hardware/software) to
kick it into 88mb compatibility mode, if such a thing exists. I have
no manual for these drives
I doubt this
- I need some sort of driver to enable reading 88mb
carts; I don't
think this is the case - most OSes should simply see them as removable
media; it's the drive's job to sort out cart compatibility
At the time the
drive shipped u did need a SyQuest driver for Windows or DOS
and I don't recall whether the partition information was compatible between
Apple and Microsoft OSes. I'm also not sure if current Windows driver will
support a MAC formatted cartridge. But I agree that yr current error message
would be a result of partition issues.
If no one else can help I have a friend who did the drivers for the
Microsoft environments and I can ping him.
Tom
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason T [mailto:silent700 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 3:24 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Syquest Drives - 200 vs 88
>
> I was handed a pile of 88mb Syquest disks - ostenisibly Mac formatted
> - a while back and I decided to have a go at them tonight. The only
> Syquest drives I found in my pile were the original 44mb and the later
> 200mb (model 5200C.) Everything I can find on this drive (which isn't
> much) declares that is is backward *read* compatible with 44mb and
> 88mb cartridges. That's fine, reading is all I want to do.
>
> My test platform is Win7 x64 (boo hoo I know...but it's convenient and
> there is a working 'dd' I've used many times for hard disk imaging.)
> I first tested the drive with a 200mb pack I already had. It mounted
> the cart, presented it to the OS and allowed me to dd the cart to an
> image file which mounted in a Mac emulator. I declared the drive
> good.
>
> Trying 88mb carts results in consistent errors. The drive sounds like
> it's mounting it, clicks a bit, spins up and down and finally settled
> on a 5-green, 5-amber blink code. According to this chart:
>
> http://www.kassj.com/articles/sqtable.html
>
> that means "incompatible cartridge." My carts are all
> Syquest-branded. Beyond that (and the possible Mac formatting,) I
> know nothing else about them.
>
> The real rub is this - once it displays that error code, the drive
> _disappears_ from the SCSI chain. Neither the OS tools nor a SCSI
> explorer utility find it. Insert the 200mb cart and it's back again;
> not even a power-cycle needed. The drive does appear with a SCSI ID
> before inserting a cart; a mounted cart is not necessary for it to
> present itself.
>
> So, theories:
>
- This drive isn't 88mb compatible after all
- *All* my carts are bad
- The carts were degaussed and thereby lost some
sort of low-level
formatting or other ID method that the drive uses to recognize them
- There's some sort of mode jumper or switch
(hardware/software) to
kick it into 88mb compatibility mode, if such a thing exists. I have
no manual for these drives
- I need some sort of
driver to enable reading 88mb carts; I don't
think this is the case - most OSes should simply see them as removable
media; it's the drive's job to sort out cart compatibility
>
> Any experience/insight/advice is appreciated here. Also offers of a
> 88mb Syquest drive :)
>
> -- jht
23 Jan
23 Jan
5:01 a.m.
New subject: SyQuest Drives - 200 vs 88
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 1:02 AM, Tom Gardner <tom94022 at comcast.net> wrote:
I worked at SyQuest in the 90s and have some vague
recollection of the 200
MB product. So to the best of my recollection regarding yr theories:
(lots of helpful info)
Shortly after I sent the initial post, the last 88mb cart I tried
worked in the 200mb drive. So I do think the remaining four (which I
did try again) 88mb carts are bad or degaussed. They are Syquest
branded, despite the "incompatible" cart error code. I'll try them
with the drive attached to a real Mac sometime but I suspect the
failure to mount the carts is happening in the drive.
Interestingly, while Windows sees the drive as a 5200C both with no
cartridge loaded and with the 200mb cartridge loaded, it suddenly sees
it as a 5110 with the 88mb cart in. Clever firmware, changing its
identity according to the capacity of the media.
Thanks to Tom and others who replied
j
4:08 p.m.
New subject: SyQuest Drives - 200 vs 88
Jason T wrote:
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 1:02 AM, Tom Gardner
<tom94022 at comcast.net> wrote:
Hmm, had such a firmware ages before in a dying IBM 0663 disk, if it
startetd correctly, it was a IBM 0663, if it failed, it was a Western
Digital Drive :-)
I think parts of the firmware where overridden from firmware extensions on
the drive itself.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
I worked at SyQuest in the 90s and have some
vague recollection of the 200
MB product. So to the best of my recollection regarding yr theories:
(lots of helpful info)
Shortly after I sent the initial post, the last 88mb cart I tried
worked in the 200mb drive. So I do think the remaining four (which I
did try again) 88mb carts are bad or degaussed. They are Syquest
branded, despite the "incompatible" cart error code. I'll try them
with the drive attached to a real Mac sometime but I suspect the
failure to mount the carts is happening in the drive.
Interestingly, while Windows sees the drive as a 5200C both with no
cartridge loaded and with the 200mb cartridge loaded, it suddenly sees
it as a 5110 with the 88mb cart in. Clever firmware, changing its
identity according to the capacity of the media.
Thanks to Tom and others who replied
j
7:46 p.m.
New subject: SyQuest Drives - 200 vs 88
-----Original Message-----
From: Holm Tiffe [mailto:holm at freibergnet.de]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 1:09 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: SyQuest Drives - 200 vs 88
Jason T wrote:
<snip>
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 1:02 AM, Tom Gardner
<tom94022 at comcast.net>
wrote: > Interestingly, while Windows sees the drive as a
5200C both with no
> cartridge loaded and with the 200mb cartridge loaded, it suddenly sees
> it as a 5110 with the 88mb cart in. Clever firmware, changing its
> identity according to the capacity of the media.
>
<snip>
Hmm, had such a firmware ages before in a dying IBM 0663 disk, if it
startetd correctly, it was a IBM 0663, if it failed, it was a Western
Digital Drive :-)
I think parts of the firmware where overridden from firmware extensions on
the drive itself.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
As I recall SyQuest had to provide a driver and bios to make its removable
media SCSI drive bootable and have DOS safely deal with removability. With
one's own driver then tricks like changing identity are possible.
I'd speculate that in the IBM case, also a SCSI drive, the IBM driver
unloaded after failure and something in the OS defaulted to WD.
The IBM 0663 was contemporaneous to the SyQuest 5110, circa the early 1990s
Tom
22 Jan
22 Jan
8:37 a.m.
On 1/21/2014 6:23 PM, Jason T wrote:
So, theories:
- This drive isn't 88mb compatible after all
- *All* my carts are bad
- The carts were degaussed and thereby lost some sort of low-level
formatting or other ID method that the drive uses to recognize them
- There's some sort of mode jumper or switch (hardware/software) to
kick it into 88mb compatibility mode, if such a thing exists. I have
no manual for these drives
- I need some sort of driver to enable reading 88mb carts; I don't
think this is the case - most OSes should simply see them as removable
media; it's the drive's job to sort out cart compatibility
Any experience/insight/advice is appreciated here. Also offers of a
88mb Syquest drive :)
I've got a real 88 drive hooked to a real Mac - I can test a couple here
if you'd like. Just contact me off-list.
- David
3837
days inactive
3840
days old
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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david＠attglobal.net -
holm＠freibergnet.de -
silent700＠gmail.com -
tom94022＠comcast.net