22 Jul
2020
22 Jul
'20
12:52 p.m.
Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe! Telnet to
35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure games on a mainframe
https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1
22 Jul
22 Jul
1:37 p.m.
Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running
on a mainframe!
Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure
games on a mainframe
https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1
Too popular for its own good. Currently failing due to a lack of memory.
-Ali
1:51 p.m.
Well still glad its getting used :)
cheers
On 22 Jul 2020, at 22:37, Ali via cctalk <cctalk at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online
running on a mainframe!
Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure
games on a mainframe
https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1
Too popular for its own good. Currently failing due to a lack of memory.
-Ali
2:15 p.m.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 09:52:14PM +0200, 821--- via cctalk wrote:
Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running
on a mainframe!
Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure games
on a mainframe
https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1
What make/model mainframe are they running on, and what OS is it running?
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
2:50 p.m.
Ask the tweet included in the initial posting..
I have nothing to do with it .. cheers
On 22 Jul 2020, at 23:15, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 09:52:14PM +0200, 821--- via cctalk wrote:
Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online
running on a mainframe!
Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure games
on a mainframe
https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1
What make/model mainframe are they running on, and what OS is it running?
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum. 
7:35 p.m.
Sadly, the original tweet doesn't mention what mainframe - Somebody did
ask, and there was no response I could see.
The error messages suggest it's some sort of Linux system using Docker
containers, so it's not OS/360 :-)
I suspect given that it's running out of memory, that it's yet another
linux box.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: doug at doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
-----------------------------------------------------------
Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted
with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for
your own use.
Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have
been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.
Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the
imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or
moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the
result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which
case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal
liability. :-)
Be nice to your parents.
Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a
radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you
happy.
^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally
sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G
On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:50 AM Kevin Lee via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Ask the tweet included in the initial posting..
I have nothing to do with it .. cheers
On 22 Jul 2020, at 23:15, Kevin Monceaux via
cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 09:52:14PM +0200, 821--- via cctalk wrote:
> Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe!
> Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure
games
What make/model mainframe are they running on, and what OS is it running?
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
7:52 p.m.
Just put up a big pdp11 and be done with it. Hm. Running on Simh a fully
loaded 11 should handle just about anything the internet could toss at it...
C
On 7/22/2020 10:35 PM, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote:
Sadly, the original tweet doesn't mention what
mainframe - Somebody did
ask, and there was no response I could see.
The error messages suggest it's some sort of Linux system using Docker
containers, so it's not OS/360 :-)
I suspect given that it's running out of memory, that it's yet another
linux box.
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: doug at doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
-----------------------------------------------------------
Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted
with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for
your own use.
Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have
been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.
Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the
imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or
moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the
result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which
case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal
liability. :-)
Be nice to your parents.
Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a
radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you
happy.
^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally
sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G
On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:50 AM Kevin Lee via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> Ask the tweet included in the initial posting..
> I have nothing to do with it .. cheers
>
>
>> On 22 Jul 2020, at 23:15, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 09:52:14PM +0200, 821--- via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>> Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe!
>>> Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure
> games
>>> on a mainframe
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1
>>
>> What make/model mainframe are they running on, and what OS is it running?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Kevin
>> http://www.RawFedDogs.net
>> http://www.Lassie.xyz
>> http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
>> Bruceville, TX
>>
>> What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
>> Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
>
>
23 Jul
23 Jul
12:05 p.m.
On 2020-07-22 10:52 p.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Just put up a big pdp11 and be done with it. Hm.
Running on Simh a fully
loaded 11 should handle just about anything the internet could toss at
it...
C
When you've got that set up, post the link on Slashdot, they love text
adventures.
--Toby
22 Jul
22 Jul
10:32 p.m.
On 7/22/20 8:35 PM, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote:
Sadly, the original tweet doesn't mention what
mainframe - Somebody
did ask, and there was no response I could see.
I asked @bmoshix what the system was. I've not gotten a reply yet.
The error messages suggest it's some sort of Linux
system using Docker
containers, so it's not OS/360 :-)
I half way expect that it's Docker running on z/OS.
I suspect given that it's running out of memory,
that it's yet another
linux box.
It could be Docker on Linux on Z, but I'd be mildly surprised by that.
I doubt it's Linux on a more typical system. Though the following file
name in the dump makes me think it's AMD-64 architecture.
/usr/local/go/src/runtime/asm_amd64.s
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
23 Jul
23 Jul
9:32 a.m.
On 7/22/20 11:32 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
I asked @bmoshix what the system was.? I've not
gotten a reply yet.
@bmoshix replied that it's Linux running on a mainframe.
I half way expect that it's Docker running on
z/OS.
So, apparently not Docker running on z/OS.
It could be Docker on Linux on Z, but I'd be
mildly surprised by that.
I'm mildly surprised.
I doubt it's Linux on a more typical system.
Though the following
file name in the dump makes me think it's AMD-64 architecture.
/usr/local/go/src/runtime/asm_amd64.s
Now I'm more confused as to why asm_amd64.s, something I assume is
related to x86_64 ~> PC (compatible) is being used.
I wonder if the copies of the games that @bmoshix is running were
written for a mainframe or a PC (compatible). The latter makes more
sense with the asm_amd64.s and comments about installing these games on
a PC.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
10 a.m.
On 7/23/20 9:32 AM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
On 7/22/20 11:32 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
Well, if one wanted to stay historically accurate, one would use a PDP-10.
Obviously, that isn't the case.
--Chuck
I asked @bmoshix what the system was.? I've
not gotten a reply yet.
@bmoshix replied that it's Linux running on a mainframe.
10:47 a.m.
On 7/23/20 10:25 AM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Infocom's games were based on Crowther, after all. I remember porting
the PDP-10 FORTRAN to CDC 6000 SCOPE 3.4. I got the source from a friend
who was a DEC CE. After converting the source tape, the "save game"
was probably the biggest difference in implementation. I used FTN
(FORTRAN extended) to do the deed, rather than RUN.
After the game had been distributed at CDC SVLOPS, there was a concerted
effort by management to purge the thing from all of the permanent file
catalogs. Luckily, management never discovered who introduced the game
in the first place...
So yes, Adventure/Colossal Cave did run on an honest big mainframe.
I never played the game much myself, as I had access to the source, so I
knew the innards of the game.
--Chuck
Well, if one wanted to stay historically
accurate, one would use a
PDP-10.
It's not Crowther's Adventure, but the Infocom games. 
11:25 a.m.
On Jul 23, 2020, at 10:47, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
?On 7/23/20 10:25 AM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
Loosely based, of course.
And Bob Supnik?s FORTRAN version was also ported to VM/CMS, so that?s two mainframes.
Rich Alderson
ex-Living Computers: Museum + Labs
http://www.panix.com/~alderson/
Sent from my iPhone
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Infocom's games were based on Crowther, after all. I remember porting
the PDP-10 FORTRAN to CDC 6000 SCOPE 3.4. I got the source from a friend
who was a DEC CE. After converting the source tape, the "save game"
was probably the biggest difference in implementation. I used FTN
(FORTRAN extended) to do the deed, rather than RUN.
After the game had been distributed at CDC SVLOPS, there was a concerted
effort by management to purge the thing from all of the permanent file
catalogs. Luckily, management never discovered who introduced the game
in the first place...
So yes, Adventure/Colossal Cave did run on an honest big mainframe.
I never played the game much myself, as I had access to the source, so I
knew the innards of the game.
--Chuck Well, if one wanted to stay historically
accurate, one would use a
PDP-10.
It's not Crowther's Adventure, but the Infocom games. 
11:32 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
Rich Alderson wrote:
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Infocom's games were based on Crowther, after all. Well, if one wanted to stay historically
accurate, one would use a
PDP-10.
It's not Crowther's Adventure, but the Infocom games. Well, they started with the PDP-10 ZORK, and used
PDP-10
(architecture) systems to develop many of the others...
Based on, started with, used to develop, all true of course. Still, I
wouldn't exactly say a PDP-10 host is a requirement for historical
accuracy to run e.g. Seastalker. An Apple II would do fine.
11:45 a.m.
How about running MDL Zork on ITS for historical accuracy? I'm scheming
with some of the implementers to take steps in that direction.
9 p.m.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 11:47 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Infocom's games were based on Crowther, after all.
Inspired by, not "based on".
ADVENT was written in Fortran 66. I'm not sure what Crowther used
originally, but Don Woods version was developed on a DECsystem-10 running
TOPS-10.
The original Zork/Dungeon was written in MDL on a PDP-10 running ITS, and
only later "translated from MDL into FORTRAN IV by a somewhat paranoid DEC
engineer who prefers to remain anonymous."
Infocom games were written in ZIL (based on MDL), and developed on a
DECSYSTEM-20. Presumably Infocom had a ZIP for the -20, but they didn't
publicly release that.
10:35 p.m.
Eric Smith wrote:
Infocom games were written in ZIL (based on MDL), and
developed on a
DECSYSTEM-20. Presumably Infocom had a ZIP for the -20, but they
didn't publicly release that.
Maybe this.
https://github.com/PDP-10/its-vault/blob/master/twenex/zork/z/zip.mud.96
10:50 p.m.
On 7/23/20 9:00 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 11:47 AM Chuck Guzis via
cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Well, it was darned near 50 years ago, so I can only recall what was on
the DECSystem10 tape, except for very general details. It only took a
couple of days to re-work in CDC FORTRAN and I lost interest quickly. I
do recall that there were a number of DEC FORTRAN "peculiarities" that
had to be ironed out.
I didn't even bother to get it working on the CDC STAR even though I had
access to resources.
I believe that there's even a CP/M-80 version wandering around. I've
got a copy of that somewhere.
The only other "serious" game I recall fooling with was Chess 3.0 to run
under the Zodiac operating system. It used its own peculiar display
driver, CHD, which had to be EDITLIB-ed into the system library, because
it was played on the DD60 operator's console.. A great time-killer if
you've got dedicated block time and are waiting for something to
complete. Even on a 6600, it really sucked up CPU time.
Of course, now I'm speaking gibberish to most of the audience, so I'll
shut up.
--Chuck
Infocom's games were based on Crowther, after
all.
Inspired by, not "based on".
ADVENT was written in Fortran 66. I'm not sure what Crowther used
originally, but Don Woods version was developed on a DECsystem-10 running
TOPS-10.
11:21 a.m.
Well, they started with the PDP-10 ZORK, and used PDP-10 (architecture) systems to develop
many of the others...
Rich Alderson
ex-Living Computers: Museum + Labs
http://www.panix.com/~alderson/
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 23, 2020, at 10:26, Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
?Chuck Guzis wrote:
Well, if one wanted to stay historically
accurate, one would use a
PDP-10.
It's not Crowther's Adventure, but the Infocom games.
11:21 a.m.
Well, if one wanted to stay historically accurate, one
would use a PDP-10.
True, and when I thought about it I realized the problem: I could create
a GAMES directory on my RSX11m+, but if multiple users logged in
wouldn't they step on each other? Or would it work because each user
would have their own ADV.T0, ADV.T1, etc process.
Hm.
10:24 a.m.
> I asked @bmoshix what the system was.? I've
not gotten a reply yet.
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
@bmoshix replied that it's Linux running on a
mainframe.
Is there a reason why he answered the OS, but not what the system was?
What sort of mainframe would somebody be ashamed of?
Most of us would be proud of ownership of ANY brand or model of mainframe.
Q: What is the definition of mainframe?
Lose a scope in it?
Need a forklift and a union moving crew?
2:50 p.m.
On 7/23/20 11:24 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
Is there a reason why he answered the OS, but not what
the system was?
Having interacted with @bmoshix, I'm taking his "mainframe" answer to
mean that it's probably either (one of) his zPDT / RDz (IBM's answer to
Hercule) -or- one of the physical mainframes that he has access to /
time on. I'm now sort of betting that it's Linux running in an LPAR or
as a z/VM guest.
You can probably glean more information about the mainframes that
@bmoshix owns and / or has access to by watching his videos on YouTube.
What sort of mainframe would somebody be ashamed of?
I doubt that he's ashamed of it in any way.
Most of us would be proud of ownership of ANY brand or
model of mainframe.
Yep.
Q: What is the definition of mainframe?
Lose a scope in it?
Need a forklift and a union moving crew?
Something you buy from IBM? ;-)
I'm going to say something that runs a mainframe OS.
This includes IBM's zPDT & RDz which are software emulators. It also
includes a P/390-E, et al., card that has a physical S/390 processor.
I bet that Hercules qualifies here too. But that's an /emulated/
mainframe. Much like zPDT & RDz.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
3:14 p.m.
Q: What is the
definition of mainframe?
Lose a scope in it?
Need a forklift and a union moving crew?
Something you buy from IBM? ;-)
3:34 p.m.
> Q: What is the definition of mainframe?
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
Something you buy from IBM? ;-)
I'm going to say something that runs a mainframe OS.
This includes IBM's zPDT & RDz which are software emulators. It also
includes a P/390-E, et al., card that has a physical S/390 processor.
I bet that Hercules qualifies here too. But that's an /emulated/ mainframe.
Much like zPDT & RDz.
How about the XT/370? or XT/360?
(I couldn't afford one)
5:59 p.m.
I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O processor. That is about all I can
think of.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Grant Taylor via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:06 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/20 4:34 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
How about the XT/370? or XT/360?
(I couldn't afford one)
As the predecessor to the P/390-E, I definitely think that the XT/370 or
XT/360 is a (baby) mainframe.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
6:22 p.m.
On 2020-07-23 8:59 p.m., dwight via cctalk wrote:
I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O
processor. That is about all I can think of.
Dwight
So, a BeagleBone then
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Grant Taylor via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:06 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/20 4:34 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
How about the XT/370? or XT/360?
(I couldn't afford one)
As the predecessor to the P/390-E, I definitely think that the XT/370 or
XT/360 is a (baby) mainframe.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
6:29 p.m.
Ahhh,
Just m,aybe it is simply an I/O processor with different firmware - That
would run zork just fine :-P
Kindest regards,
Doug Jackson
em: doug at doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878
Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
-----------------------------------------------------------
Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted
with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for
your own use.
Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have
been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.
Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the
imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or
moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the
result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which
case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal
liability. :-)
Be nice to your parents.
Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a
radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you
happy.
^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally
sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G
On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:22 AM Toby Thain via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 2020-07-23 8:59 p.m., dwight via cctalk wrote:
I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a
I/O processor. That is
about all I can think of.
Dwight
So, a BeagleBone then
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Grant Taylor
via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:06 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/20 4:34 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
How about the XT/370? or XT/360?
(I couldn't afford one)
As the predecessor to the P/390-E, I definitely think that the XT/370 or
XT/360 is a (baby) mainframe.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
24 Jul
24 Jul
1:18 a.m.
Dwight,
Well oddly all the "PC" variants so the XT/370, AT/370, P390 & P390/E meet
that definition, in that they are 370 or 390 class CPUs that use the host PC
to handle the IO...
So the host PC is in effect the IO processor...
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of dwight via
cctalk
Sent: 24 July 2020 02:00
To: Grant Taylor <cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net>; General Discussion:
On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Adventures online
I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O processor. That is
about
all I can think of.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Grant Taylor via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:06 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/20 4:34 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
How about the XT/370? or XT/360?
(I couldn't afford one)
As the predecessor to the P/390-E, I definitely think that the XT/370 or
XT/360 is a (baby) mainframe.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die 
3:03 a.m.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 12:59:51AM +0000, dwight via cctalk wrote:
I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O
processor. That is
about all I can think of.
Contemporary PCs satisfy that description: GPUs are the most visible I/O
processor, and all of the other bus interfaces such as SATA and USB need at
least a microcontroller to speak the relevant protocol.
What is old is new again...
1379
days inactive
1382
days old
35 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
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821＠128.ca -
abuse＠cabal.org.uk -
alderson＠panix.com -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net -
cctalk＠ibm51xx.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
cz＠alembic.crystel.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
doug＠doughq.com -
Kevin＠RawFedDogs.net -
lars＠nocrew.org -
spacewar＠gmail.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au