14 Mar
2005
14 Mar
'05
5:57 p.m.
From: "Eric Smith" <eric at
brouhaha.com>
Yes. They are laminated with adhesive, just as laser videodiscs were.
The adhesive leaks O2 even when it's working well, and as it degrades
it leaks worse.
Hi
It sounds like the only way to deal with this is to store
disk in an innert environment. N2 or argon are reasonable
options. Only expose the disk to UV and O2 when actually
used to recover data. They should last for 1000's of years
this way.
Dwight
14 Mar
14 Mar
10:24 p.m.
Dwight K. Elvey wrote:
It sounds like the only way to deal with this is to
store
disk in an innert environment. N2 or argon are reasonable
options. Only expose the disk to UV and O2 when actually
used to recover data. They should last for 1000's of years
this way.
Am I the only one here who has never had a problem with CDR and DVD-R media? I
burned my very first CD in 1995 and I can still read it. I keep all my CDs in
closed CD folders in a dry environment. I keep wondering if people who have
CDRs that exhibit "bitrot" have them in a humid environment, exposed to direct
light or something.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
11:21 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Leonard" <trixter at oldskool.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: Longevity of DVD-R and CD-R (Was MagTapes)
Dwight K. Elvey wrote:
media? I
It sounds like the only way to deal with this is
to store
disk in an innert environment. N2 or argon are reasonable
options. Only expose the disk to UV and O2 when actually
used to recover data. They should last for 1000's of years
this way.
Am I the only one here who has never had a problem with CDR and DVD-R burned my very first CD in 1995 and I can still read
it. I keep all my
CDs in
closed CD folders in a dry environment. I keep
wondering if people who
have
CDRs that exhibit "bitrot" have them in a
humid environment, exposed to
direct
light or something.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org)
http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project?
http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at
http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
I think the only CDR's I had go bad were one I got careless in during use
(leaving them out where the cats can scratch them). My first burner was a
$1000+ HP 4020i way back in the middle 90's and CDs burned during that time
still read fine ($6-7 a cd back then too).
I used to get crazy with Stick-it-Right labels on the cd's (have the gold
color under the paper). I keep most of the older CDs in CD audio books, but
the one burned in 2000+ are usually just stacked in the spindles they came
in (most with paper labels some without).
15 Mar
15 Mar
6:37 a.m.
(Somebody mentioned that gold media was still available but expensive.
Somebody else said that it was likely the best for longevity.)
Rather than complain, how about mentioning how to obtain
this "archivist grade" material?
John A.
2:37 p.m.
John wrote:
(Somebody mentioned that gold media was still
available but expensive.
Somebody else said that it was likely the best for longevity.)
Rather than complain, how about mentioning how to obtain
this "archivist grade" material?
Google for "gold CD-R", perhaps with "Mitsui" or "Taiyo
Yuden" as
well.
If you want gold media, be careful to study the vendor's web site
to make sure that's what you're really buying, rather than silver-gold
alloy or other junk. Caveat emptor.
Silver-gold alloy reportedly does have better longevity than plain
silver, but isn't nearly as good as plain gold.
Eric
7:27 a.m.
>>>> "Jim" == Jim Leonard
<trixter at oldskool.org> writes:
Jim> Dwight K. Elvey wrote:
> It sounds like the only way to deal with this is
to store disk in
> an innert environment. N2 or argon are reasonable options. Only
> expose the disk to UV and O2 when actually used to recover
> data. They should last for 1000's of years this way.
Jim> Am I the only one here who has never had a problem with CDR and
Jim> DVD-R media?
I don't have enough experience with them yet.
My suspicion is that choice of media is a big contributor. For
example, I will no longer use Fuji media of any kind for any purpose
under any circumstance, after ALL (100 percent) of my Fuji audio
cassettes died within just a few years, while NONE of any other brand
did.
So if through luck or good judgement you pick competent media
manufacturers, that should help a lot.
paul
9:50 a.m.
Paul Koning wrote:
My suspicion is that choice of media is a big
contributor. For
example, I will no longer use Fuji media of any kind for any purpose
under any circumstance, after ALL (100 percent) of my Fuji audio
cassettes died within just a few years, while NONE of any other brand
did.
Hopefully you are saying that you will never buy Fuji audio cassettes ever
again -- if you are saying you'll never buy ANY Fuji media of ANY kind ever
again, that isn't exactly rational :-)
BTW, how does an audio cassette "fail"? What exactly happened?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
11:29 a.m.
>>>> "Jim" == Jim Leonard
<trixter at oldskool.org> writes:
Jim> Paul Koning wrote:
> My suspicion is that choice of media is a big
contributor. For
> example, I will no longer use Fuji media of any kind for any
> purpose under any circumstance, after ALL (100 percent) of my Fuji
> audio cassettes died within just a few years, while NONE of any
> other brand did.
Jim> Hopefully you are saying that you will never buy Fuji audio
Jim> cassettes ever again -- if you are saying you'll never buy ANY
Jim> Fuji media of ANY kind ever again, that isn't exactly rational
Jim> :-)
No, I meant media of any kind. Yes, that IS rational -- I feel that
the lack of quality in one area is a predictor of lack of quality in
other areas. Especially magnetic media of other kinds (e.g., DLT),
but I choose to carry it over to CD/DVD media as well.
Jim> BTW, how does an audio cassette "fail"? What exactly happened?
Squeek squeek sounds coming from the player, and also on the playback
sound, sufficient to obliterate the music. On all of them -- at least
ten, probably more. I have probably 100 cassettes; no other brand,
even cheap ones, have ever failed on me in that fashion.
paul
11:47 a.m.
Rumor has it that Jim Leonard may have mentioned these words:
Paul Koning wrote:
[[ Insert lame attempt to keep this ontopic... ]]]
That depends on the manufacturer... Memorex has sucked for 20 years - I've
never had a good audio cassette, 5.25" floppy, 3.5" floppy, CDR, CDRW ad
nauseum out of them, and even if they came out with a 23 googolbyte
holographic storage disk and reader tomorrow, I wouldn't buy the frelling
thing. :-O ;-)
[[ End lame attempt... I *told* you it was lame! ]]
However, I've had nothing but excellent luck with Fuji CD-Rs, and the last
time I'd checked, they were OEMmed by Taiyo Yuden.
For DVD-R, I've had very good luck with Ritek G03/G04/G05 disks (and
Pioneer burners) ... but I'd like to hear where you could get some Gold
DVD-Rs for archive as well. [[ Plug your ears, Tony! ;-) ]] I have a lot of
Raw format pictures from my digital camera that I'd like to archive on
something designed for archiving -- I'm also thinking of vacuum packing 'em
before I put 'em in the safety deposit box... ;-)
That, and I'd like to back up a lot of my classic info, as well...
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together."
sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson
zmerch at 30below.com |
My suspicion is that choice of media is a big
contributor. For
example, I will no longer use Fuji media of any kind for any purpose
under any circumstance, after ALL (100 percent) of my Fuji audio
cassettes died within just a few years, while NONE of any other brand
did.
Hopefully you are saying that you will never buy Fuji audio cassettes ever
again -- if you are saying you'll never buy ANY Fuji media of ANY kind
ever again, that isn't exactly rational :-) 
7:43 p.m.
NIST has a publication on the care and feeding of CD and DVD media
under the title of:
NIST Special Publication 500-252, Information Technology: Care and
Handling Of CDs and DVDs -- A Guide for Librarians and Archivists
Published October 2003.
I have it in pdf should anyone care for it.
Jim
"We need a revolution."
"Keep saying that and we'll need a lawyer, assuming they let us have
one."
Jan Steinman <www.Bytesmiths.com>
7224
days inactive
7225
days old
9 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
allain＠panix.com -
dwight.elvey＠amd.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
jrasite＠eoni.com -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
trixter＠oldskool.org -
zmerch＠30below.com