4 Nov
1998
4 Nov
'98
3:39 a.m.
US UK
NTSC -- smooth and flaky PAL -- flickery but more reliable
60Hz vertical scan -
smooth 50Hz vertical scan - more flickery
NTSC - flaky PAL - more reliable I think the 50/60Hz difference *may* be a problem,
since a US monitor will
prefer to sync to 60Hz.
Al long as you are using an RGB monitor, almost any will
syncronize well. For FBASthere is a problem, but most
actual TV sets should display PAL and NTSC (and 50/60 Hz)
without any doubt. Timing isn't any longer generated from
the power line. Also, since most TV controllers are IC
based, they use just one type everywhere.
This might not be true for the low price TV sets, but
any TV I (or friends of mine) had within the last
10 years could syncronize 60 Hz b&w and all (but one
tested in 1984) could also display NTSC signals.
Gruss
hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
7 Nov
7 Nov
2:18 a.m.
On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Hans Franke wrote:
Due a smaler coulour band signal. The slow colour
change
is a real pain for movies but the 50 vs 60 Hz isn't
visible, althrugh when used with computers, both are
just bad.
I definitely notice the 50Hz vs 60Hz difference on my computer. I might
not notice it with a TV signal, though - I've never watched PAL
television. (But I've watched 50Hz 'EuroDemos' on the TV.)
This might not be true for the low price TV sets, but
any TV I (or friends of mine) had within the last
10 years could syncronize 60 Hz b&w and all (but one
tested in 1984) could also display NTSC signals.
Our current television (JVC model no. AV-27965, manufactured in 1995) will
definitely _not_ synch to 50Hz. This annoyed me. All of our old
tube-based monstrosities are perfectly happy with 50Hz.
But north American televisions are primitive relative to European ones. I
would _really_ like it if they'd put SCART connectors on the sets over
here!
--
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
7:44 a.m.
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8 Nov
8 Nov
10:26 p.m.
On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
Humm.. I never read the TV's manual, and I don't know where it is now. :)
I think I've played with every button and every menu setting on the thing,
though. Where would I find a hidden service menu? :)
No. I've never seen a set with RGB inputs. Usually they just have
composite, and the more expensive ones have S-Video.
PAL does _not_ necessarily imply 50Hz vertical,
though. It just happens
that the 2 most popular TV standards in the world are 60Hz vertical NTSC
and 50Hz vertical PAL B/G/I (those all have the same video signal
essentially). There are other PALs, for example PAL-M and PAL-N. I can
never remember which way round they are, but one is 625 line PAL (50Hz
vertical) with a colour subcarrier near 3.5MHz and the other is 525 line
PAL (60Hz vertical) with a colour subcarrier near 3.5MHz.
Who uses these other standards? I've heard that some South American
countries use different TV standards from just about anywhere else.
I think most people associate PAL with 50Hz and NTSC with 60Hz, even
though they really refer to very different things.
Then again, by "most people" I'm probably thinking "most Amigans".
The
50Hz screen modes are officially called PAL modes, and 60Hz are called
NTSC, regardless of how the colour is generated. Perhaps they should have
found different names for these modes.
Most people think that Amigas can switch between PAL and NTSC, because of
the phoney definitions used. But they can't. They can just switch
between 50Hz and 60Hz. So when my Amiga is running in "PAL" mode on my
television, it's really just 50Hz NTSC.
Our current
television (JVC model no. AV-27965, manufactured in 1995) will
definitely _not_ synch to 50Hz. This annoyed me. All of our old
tube-based monstrosities are perfectly happy with 50Hz.
That is suprising. Are you sure there's not an option on a hidden service
menu to enable this ? Some sets in the UK have NTSC and PAL decoders and
select the appropriate
one based on the vertical scan rate. Cheaper versions of those sets
sometimes have only the PAL decoder and do odd things if fed with 60Hz
video. Often looking at the service manuals for both models will indicate
what needs to be added (which may not be very much, actually).
For what I want to do at the moment, it would be better if the set would
just synch to 50Hz and keep using the NTSC decoder. But if I ever get a
computer that generates PAL, I'll definitely want the PAL decoder. They
should let geeks choose frequency and colour decoders separately.
Another thing that would be great would be a VCR that could record/play
PAL and/or 50Hz.
But north
American televisions are primitive relative to European ones. I
would _really_ like it if they'd put SCART connectors on the sets over
here!
For all I don't like the SCART connector from an engineering viewpoint, I
have to admit it's useful.
Do US TVs have RGB inputs? European ones almost always do. -tony
--
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
9 Nov
9 Nov
6:18 a.m.
At 04:26 AM 11/9/98 -0500, Doug Spence wrote:
No. I've never seen a set with RGB inputs. Usually they just have
composite, and the more expensive ones have S-Video.
My Sony KV-1311CR was popular among Amiga-heads, it has analog RGB.
For that matter, most Amiga monitors had composite video inputs,
which makes them very handy "televisions" when combined with a VCR.
- John
15 Nov
15 Nov
11:05 p.m.
On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, John Foust wrote:
At 04:26 AM 11/9/98 -0500, Doug Spence wrote:
Which is the one thing I really miss from my Samsung 7e. My old A1080 had
all kinds of things plugged into it... Amiga, VCR, Atari 2600 via the
VCR...
Another one that I just remembered was the Toshiba(?) TIMM. It was too
expensive when it was new, but when it was discontinued there were a lot
of great prices reported.
I never saw one, and I think I only saw the ad for it twice, but I wish it
had taken off.
No. I've never seen a set with RGB inputs. Usually they just have
composite, and the more expensive ones have S-Video.
My Sony KV-1311CR was popular among Amiga-heads, it has analog RGB.
For that matter, most Amiga monitors had composite video inputs,
which makes them very handy "televisions" when combined with a VCR. - John
--
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
9 Nov
9 Nov
7:57 a.m.
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11 Nov
11 Nov
12:21 p.m.
On 9 Nov 98 at 18:57, Tony Duell wrote:
I believe one is South America and the other is South Africa. I wouldn't
like to bet on it, though.
More interesting is why a PAL-N (625 line, 3.5... MHz colour subcarrier)
encoder/decoder appeared in a clearout in London. I don't know the answer
to that.
SNIP
PAL does _not_ necessarily imply 50Hz vertical,
though. It just happens
that the 2 most popular TV standards in the world are 60Hz vertical NTSC
and 50Hz vertical PAL B/G/I (those all have the same video signal
essentially). There are other PALs, for example PAL-M and PAL-N. I can
never remember which way round they are, but one is 625 line PAL (50Hz
vertical) with a colour subcarrier near 3.5MHz and the other is 525 line
PAL (60Hz vertical) with a colour subcarrier near 3.5MHz.
Who uses these other standards? I've heard that some South American
countries use different TV standards from just about anywhere else.
I've seen colour _monitors_ that will decoder almost anything (a typical
selection is PAL, NTSC3.58, NTSC4.43 (which is what some VCRs output in
the UK if given an NTSC tape), SECAM, RGB, all at 50 or 60Hz). I've not
got one (yet), though.
In sections of Toronto where there are large south-east asian populations
there is a thriving business in changing tapes to the N.A. standard. With the
right equipment it sounds like it would be trivial to do. What would be
required ?
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Another thing that would be great would be a VCR
that could record/play
PAL and/or 50Hz.
They're trivial to find in the UK....
-tony
12 Nov
12 Nov
7:44 a.m.
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9362
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8 comments
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participants (5)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca -
franke＠sbs.de -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
lwalker＠mail.interlog.com