11 Jun
2009
11 Jun
'09
1:45 p.m.
I know that one HP reseller here in the Bay area had a 930 (TTL-based HPPA RISC) a couple
years ago. You could root around for other resellers on comp.sys.MPE, assuming you want to
pay money for one. Of course they were really really slow, wouldn't you rather have a
950? The 930 was in way a prototype that escaped from the Lab.
Lee C.
--- On Thu, 6/11/09, Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> wrote:
From: Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de>
Subject: Re: early PA-RISC machines
To: "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 8:46 AM
HP 9000 model 840 and HP 3000 model 930.
I
think I have seen one of those here in Germany - running
HPUX 24/7 and being connected to the Internet.
-- http://www.hachti.de
12 Jun
12 Jun
3:01 a.m.
On Jun 11, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Lee Courtney ((ACM)) wrote:
I know that one HP reseller here in the Bay area had a
930 (TTL-
based HPPA RISC) a couple years ago. You could root around for
other resellers on comp.sys.MPE, assuming you want to pay money for
one. Of course they were really really slow, wouldn't you rather
have a 950? The 930 was in way a prototype that escaped from the Lab.
That's exactly why I want one. If I wanted *fast* PA-RISC, I'd
hunt down an X-class.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
2:25 p.m.
On Fri, 12 Jun 2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
On Jun 11, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Lee Courtney ((ACM))
wrote:
They weren't slow at all... I'd say the 9000/840 is a bit faster than a
SUN 4/260 (also running 24/7 here).
Christian
comp.sys.MPE, assuming you want to pay money for
one. Of course they were
really really slow, wouldn't you rather have a 950? The 930 was in way a
prototype that escaped from the Lab.
That's exactly why I want one. If I
wanted *fast* PA-RISC, I'd hunt down
an X-class.
2:44 p.m.
On Jun 12, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Christian Corti wrote:
They weren't slow at all... I'd say the 9000/840 is a bit faster
than a SUN 4/260 (also running 24/7 here).
Wow, really? That's pretty impressive for an all-TTL design.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
comp.sys.MPE, assuming you want to pay money for one.
Of course
they were really really slow, wouldn't you rather have a 950? The
930 was in way a prototype that escaped from the Lab.
That's exactly why I
want one. If I wanted *fast* PA-RISC, I'd
hunt down an X-class. 
2:42 p.m.
I know that one HP reseller here in the Bay area had a 930 (TTL-based
HPPA RISC) a couple years ago. You could root around for other resellers
I think this is one machine I would have to be able to collect in person....
on comp.sys.MPE, assuming you want to pay money for
one. Of course they
Hmmm, therein lies a problem.....
were really really slow, wouldn't you rather have
a 950? The 930 was in
No. If I wanted a fast machine, I'd not be on classiccmp :-) My love of
processors built from TTL (and similar 'simple chips') is well-known
here. That's why I'd like said machine. Same reason I'd rather haave a
VAX 11/730 to a VAXstation 3800.
way a prototype that escaped from the Lab.
-tony
13 Jun
13 Jun
7:02 p.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
Hello,
All this talk of emulators has gotten me a bit interested again, so I
went searching for an emulator for another old computer for which I have
a great deal of software I have written, The Control Data CDC-6500, or
thereabouts. Much to my delight, an emulator which will function as
several different CDC mainframes exists! However, upon further
investigation, this software costs US $12,500.00 for single CPU copy.
CRIPES! The university I attended GAVE AWAY the 6500 I used to use.
So, anyway, in more general terms, just what is out there in the
low-volume CPU emulator world? Yes, I'm interested in CDC specifically,
too.
Warren
7:33 p.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
Warren Wolfe wrote:
Much to my delight, an emulator which will function as
several
different CDC mainframes exists! However, upon further investigation,
this software costs US $12,500.00 for single CPU copy. CRIPES! The
university I attended GAVE AWAY the 6500 I used to use.
When I saw that, I started
writing a CDC 6x00 simulator in Java, and got
to the point of running simple test programs on the PPUs and the CPU,
but not to the point of booting an OS.
Then I found out that the earlier releases of that commercial simulator
were published under an open source license, and are still available,
though relatively hard to locate.
Eric
8:29 p.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
Warren Wolfe wrote:
Much to my delight, an emulator which will function as
several
different CDC mainframes exists! However, upon further
investigation, this software costs US $12,500.00 for single CPU
copy. CRIPES! The university I attended GAVE AWAY the 6500 I
used
to use.
A very common sense decision on their part. Big, unreliable, power-
hungry (MG set, chilled water) and a pain to move (think about all of
that coax running under the floor). Not to mention the
peripherals...
A lot of people were devastated when the one and only STAR-65 came
back from Canada and was sold to a St. Paul area scrapper for so many
cents per pound--and that was when the project was still very much
alive.
But a 6000-series emulator wouldn't do it for me. The constant 80-
some decibel level of the tape drive vacuum pumps, the screaming of
the line printers, the clackety-clack and jamming of the card reader,
the devastation to my social life because of dedicated block time in
the middle of the night, surviving out of vending machines by eating
cottage cheese and potato chips, Miinnesota in January, management
complaining of being behind schedule--it just wouldn't be the same.
Running an emulator would be like watching a silent black-and-white
film of the experience. I've never wanted to even try it. Besides,
how many deadstart tapes of SCOPE 3.1.6 still exist?
--Chuck
14 Jun
14 Jun
2:15 a.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Warren Wolfe wrote:
Oh, I know that... But, it just seems stupid that one could have the
computer for nothing, but the emulator costs over ten thousand dollars.
(They had no takers on the CDC 6500, by the way, and cut it up with
chainsaws and dragged it away to be scrapped. Sheesh.
Much to my delight, an emulator which will
function as several
different CDC mainframes exists! However, upon further
investigation, this software costs US $12,500.00 for single CPU
copy. CRIPES! The university I attended GAVE AWAY the 6500 I
used to use.
A very common sense decision on their part. Big, unreliable, power-
hungry (MG set, chilled water) and a pain to move (think about all of
that coax running under the floor). Not to mention the
peripherals...
But a 6000-series emulator wouldn't do it for me.
The constant 80-
some decibel level of the tape drive vacuum pumps, the screaming of
the line printers, the clackety-clack and jamming of the card reader,
the devastation to my social life because of dedicated block time in
the middle of the night, surviving out of vending machines by eating
cottage cheese and potato chips, Miinnesota in January, management
complaining of being behind schedule--it just wouldn't be the same.
For me, the vending machines dispensed punch cards. And, lots of times,
I got to use a TTY machine.
Running an emulator would be like watching a silent
black-and-white
film of the experience. I've never wanted to even try it. Besides,
how many deadstart tapes of SCOPE 3.1.6 still exist
I don't have a clue... but, to me, running the programs was it, not the
belches of the midnight operator (I heard he later went pro with it) and
jovial laughter of Dr. Eulenberg.... And, as I found out later, NSA
spooks all over the place. Funny... I never noticed them at the time.
Warren
16 Jun
16 Jun
3:21 p.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
Chuck Guzis wrote:
But a 6000-series emulator wouldn't do it for me.
The constant 80-
some decibel level of the tape drive vacuum pumps, the screaming of
the line printers, the clackety-clack and jamming of the card reader,
the devastation to my social life because of dedicated block time in
the middle of the night, surviving out of vending machines by eating
cottage cheese and potato chips, Miinnesota in January, management
complaining of being behind schedule--it just wouldn't be the same.
Running an emulator would be like watching a silent black-and-white
film of the experience. I've never wanted to even try it.
I'm sure a recording of line printers etc. can be found and played back at
many decibels. I can set you up in our barn in the middle of MN with a supply
of potato chips and laptop running the emulator if you want - how does next
Jan sound? I'll even show up periodically and yell at you about being behind
schedule.
:-)
4:39 p.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
On 16 Jun 2009 at 14:21, Jules Richardson wrote:
I'm sure a recording of line printers etc. can be
found and played
back at many decibels. I can set you up in our barn in the middle of
MN with a supply of potato chips and laptop running the emulator if
you want - how does next Jan sound? I'll even show up periodically and
yell at you about being behind schedule.
Bring a bunch of roaches, mice and crickets too, just to complete the
sense of "atmosphere". Not to mention psycopathic co-workers...
--Chuck
17 Jun
17 Jun
3:41 p.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 16 Jun 2009 at 14:21, Jules Richardson wrote:
Mice and crickets I can do - not sure about roaches, but maybe the vast number
of ticks in the woods can act as stand-ins?
I'm sure a recording of line printers etc.
can be found and played
back at many decibels. I can set you up in our barn in the middle of
MN with a supply of potato chips and laptop running the emulator if
you want - how does next Jan sound? I'll even show up periodically and
yell at you about being behind schedule.
Bring a bunch of roaches, mice and crickets too, just to complete the
sense of "atmosphere". Not to mention psycopathic co-workers...
Those are in short supply here, thankfully - I think you'll have to pack your
own... :-)
5:36 p.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
On 17 Jun 2009 at 14:41, Jules Richardson wrote:
Mice and crickets I can do - not sure about roaches,
but maybe the
vast number of ticks in the woods can act as stand-ins?
Back when it wasn't "Silicon Valley", the Santa Clara valley was a
big agricultural producer. Santa Clara was known for its Italian
prunes, there were orchards along North First Street, and cherry
blossoms would form small mounds in the roadway during spring in
Sunnyvale. This time of year, the valley would be full of the scent
of marinara sauce as the canneries swung into tomato-canning action.
CDC Sunnyvale ops was situatied in the middle of onion fields along
Moffett Park Drive. When the weather turned cool around November,
hordes of crickets would invade the facility and could be found
everywhere--even in second floor offices, in desk drawers, in coffee
cups...
Just one more aspect that I don't miss.
--Chuck
13 Jun
13 Jun
8:34 p.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
Eric Smith wrote:
Warren Wolfe wrote:
Do tell, Eric... Do you have a URL to share? Or, perhaps, a copy?
Very cool!
Warren
Much to my delight, an emulator which will
function as several
different CDC mainframes exists! However, upon further
investigation, this software costs US $12,500.00 for single CPU
copy. CRIPES! The university I attended GAVE AWAY the 6500 I used
to use.
When I saw that, I started writing a CDC 6x00 simulator in Java, and
got to the point of running simple test programs on the PPUs and the
CPU, but not to the point of booting an OS.
Then I found out that the earlier releases of that commercial
simulator were published under an open source license, and are still
available, though relatively hard to locate.
8:58 p.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
On Jun 13, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
Then I found out that the earlier releases of that
commercial
simulator were published under an open source license, and are
still available, though relatively hard to locate.
If you did in fact locate them, perhaps you could make
them...ahem...easier to locate. =)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
11:21 p.m.
New subject: Further Emulator Discussion
Eric Smith wrote:
Then I found out that the earlier releases of that
commercial simulator
were published under an open source license, and are still available,
though relatively hard to locate.
http://frend2.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/frend2/
I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out exactly which version it is,
though.
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aek＠bitsavers.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
cclist＠sydex.com -
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lee_courtney＠acm.org -
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