11 Nov
2014
11 Nov
'14
12:11 p.m.
From: Ben Sinclair
what is the best way to connect the wire-wrap jumpers?
I've never
actually wire wrapped anything, but is that what I should do?
Well, I use wire-wrap, but anything that makes a good connection and doesn't
get in the way (of other cards, etc) is fine, really. Don't feel you have to
use wire-wrap, or anything.
If you want to wire-wrap, there are two ways to go. They used to make manual
tools for wrapping the wire, but I've never used those; I learned with a gun.
Those are available on eBay now for relatively cheap, since wire-wrap is now
more or less obsolete (if you're slightly patient - I paid $25 for a kit
containing two guns, a bunch of different tips for different gauge wire,
several packages of pre-stripped wires, several of the strippers that cut the
wire and strip the right amount, and some un-wrap tools - a great deal :-);
that's the way I'd go.
They are pretty easy to use; the only real trick is to learn how to apply just
the right amount of up-down force while doing the wrap. Too much up, and you
tend to pull the gun up as it wraps, and you don't get a nice tight wrap. Too
much down, and you get an ugly ball at the bottom of the post as the wrap
winds around itself. The trick is to try and hold the gun neutrally weighted,
and as it wraps let it push _itself_ up the pin, producing a nice tight wrap.
And of course you can do test wraps, and undo them if they come out looking
bad. It doesn't take long to get reasonably good with it.
Noel
17 Nov
17 Nov
2:54 a.m.
I happened to already have a manual wire wrap tool, and it actually works
pretty well! I was able to wire wrap the jumpers on my serial card and they
seem pretty secure.
However, I'm having other strange problems now. I'm not sure what I did,
but at the moment I can't seem to boot into XXDP as I could before. It
halts back to ODT at 00104, but I know from past runs that the restart
address is 152010. If I do a 152010g, it does run XXDP and seems to work.
I was messing with the halt option on my DLV11, but I currently have it set
to go to ODT on break, which is what it's always been set to. I'm actually
not sure what the common setting for that would be. It's either break,
boot, or do nothing. It was on break earlier, and worked, so I think
something else may be wrong.
I'm currently only running with the CPU, memory, and serial boards
installed.
I did try what you suggested while trying to fix the initial problem. I
reseated the boards and made sure the jumpers were secure, and reseated the
two chips on the CPU board.
I did receive my "new" M8186 from eBay, but it's missing all of the
jumpers, and there is a strange modification... On my original M8186, there
is a capacitor on the left, after the first row of chips, when looking at
it from the tab side. The "new" one has that capacitor replaced with a
piece of perfboard with two smaller capacitors, and a two pin connector. I
have no idea what that might be, but I don't think I should try this board
until I figure it out.
One thing I was thinking of trying was moving the socketed chips from the
new board to the old... I don't have any other great ideas right now though!
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 6:11 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
From: Ben
Sinclair
what is the best way to connect the wire-wrap
jumpers? I've never
actually wire wrapped anything, but is that what I should do?
Well, I use wire-wrap, but anything that makes a good connection and
doesn't
get in the way (of other cards, etc) is fine, really. Don't feel you have
to
use wire-wrap, or anything.
If you want to wire-wrap, there are two ways to go. They used to make
manual
tools for wrapping the wire, but I've never used those; I learned with a
gun.
Those are available on eBay now for relatively cheap, since wire-wrap is
now
more or less obsolete (if you're slightly patient - I paid $25 for a kit
containing two guns, a bunch of different tips for different gauge wire,
several packages of pre-stripped wires, several of the strippers that cut
the
wire and strip the right amount, and some un-wrap tools - a great deal :-);
that's the way I'd go.
They are pretty easy to use; the only real trick is to learn how to apply
just
the right amount of up-down force while doing the wrap. Too much up, and
you
tend to pull the gun up as it wraps, and you don't get a nice tight wrap.
Too
much down, and you get an ugly ball at the bottom of the post as the wrap
winds around itself. The trick is to try and hold the gun neutrally
weighted,
and as it wraps let it push _itself_ up the pin, producing a nice tight
wrap.
And of course you can do test wraps, and undo them if they come out looking
bad. It doesn't take long to get reasonably good with it.
Noel
3:04 a.m.
I just tried swapping the chips from my "new" M8186 to the old, and have
the same result, by the way!
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Ben Sinclair <bensinc at gmail.com> wrote:
I happened to already have a manual wire wrap tool,
and it actually works
pretty well! I was able to wire wrap the jumpers on my serial card and they
seem pretty secure.
However, I'm having other strange problems now. I'm not sure what I did,
but at the moment I can't seem to boot into XXDP as I could before. It
halts back to ODT at 00104, but I know from past runs that the restart
address is 152010. If I do a 152010g, it does run XXDP and seems to work.
I was messing with the halt option on my DLV11, but I currently have it
set to go to ODT on break, which is what it's always been set to. I'm
actually not sure what the common setting for that would be. It's either
break, boot, or do nothing. It was on break earlier, and worked, so I think
something else may be wrong.
I'm currently only running with the CPU, memory, and serial boards
installed.
I did try what you suggested while trying to fix the initial problem. I
reseated the boards and made sure the jumpers were secure, and reseated the
two chips on the CPU board.
I did receive my "new" M8186 from eBay, but it's missing all of the
jumpers, and there is a strange modification... On my original M8186, there
is a capacitor on the left, after the first row of chips, when looking at
it from the tab side. The "new" one has that capacitor replaced with a
piece of perfboard with two smaller capacitors, and a two pin connector. I
have no idea what that might be, but I don't think I should try this board
until I figure it out.
One thing I was thinking of trying was moving the socketed chips from the
new board to the old... I don't have any other great ideas right now though!
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 6:11 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
From: Ben
Sinclair
what is the best way to connect the wire-wrap
jumpers? I've never
actually wire wrapped anything, but is that what I should do?
Well, I use wire-wrap, but anything that makes a good connection and
doesn't
get in the way (of other cards, etc) is fine, really. Don't feel you have
to
use wire-wrap, or anything.
If you want to wire-wrap, there are two ways to go. They used to make
manual
tools for wrapping the wire, but I've never used those; I learned with a
gun.
Those are available on eBay now for relatively cheap, since wire-wrap is
now
more or less obsolete (if you're slightly patient - I paid $25 for a kit
containing two guns, a bunch of different tips for different gauge wire,
several packages of pre-stripped wires, several of the strippers that cut
the
wire and strip the right amount, and some un-wrap tools - a great deal
:-);
that's the way I'd go.
They are pretty easy to use; the only real trick is to learn how to apply
just
the right amount of up-down force while doing the wrap. Too much up, and
you
tend to pull the gun up as it wraps, and you don't get a nice tight
wrap. Too
much down, and you get an ugly ball at the bottom of the post as the wrap
winds around itself. The trick is to try and hold the gun neutrally
weighted,
and as it wraps let it push _itself_ up the pin, producing a nice tight
wrap.
And of course you can do test wraps, and undo them if they come out
looking
bad. It doesn't take long to get reasonably good with it.
Noel
3:16 a.m.
Sorry for all of the replies to myself! I just tried booting with halt on,
so it didn't try and boot from the TU58 emulator, and I entered the memory
address program from http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/hints.html.
When I run the program, it halts at 000014. According to that site, the
error address should be in R1, which reads as 004330. I did try and write
to that location, and it reads back fine.
I'm confused though, because it halts at 000014, but that program doesn't
have an instruction at 000014. That may just be me not understanding how it
works, but I would have thought it would halt on some location that
actually had an instruction.
I'm afraid I've messed this thing all up! I had it working better before I
started messing with it, but I guess that's the fun part!
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Ben Sinclair <bensinc at gmail.com> wrote:
I just tried swapping the chips from my
"new" M8186 to the old, and have
the same result, by the way!
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Ben Sinclair <bensinc at gmail.com> wrote:
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
I happened to already have a manual wire wrap
tool, and it actually works
pretty well! I was able to wire wrap the jumpers on my serial card and they
seem pretty secure.
However, I'm having other strange problems now. I'm not sure what I did,
but at the moment I can't seem to boot into XXDP as I could before. It
halts back to ODT at 00104, but I know from past runs that the restart
address is 152010. If I do a 152010g, it does run XXDP and seems to work.
I was messing with the halt option on my DLV11, but I currently have it
set to go to ODT on break, which is what it's always been set to. I'm
actually not sure what the common setting for that would be. It's either
break, boot, or do nothing. It was on break earlier, and worked, so I think
something else may be wrong.
I'm currently only running with the CPU, memory, and serial boards
installed.
I did try what you suggested while trying to fix the initial problem. I
reseated the boards and made sure the jumpers were secure, and reseated the
two chips on the CPU board.
I did receive my "new" M8186 from eBay, but it's missing all of the
jumpers, and there is a strange modification... On my original M8186, there
is a capacitor on the left, after the first row of chips, when looking at
it from the tab side. The "new" one has that capacitor replaced with a
piece of perfboard with two smaller capacitors, and a two pin connector. I
have no idea what that might be, but I don't think I should try this board
until I figure it out.
One thing I was thinking of trying was moving the socketed chips from the
new board to the old... I don't have any other great ideas right now though!
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 6:11 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
From: Ben
Sinclair
what is the best way to connect the wire-wrap
jumpers? I've never
actually wire wrapped anything, but is that what I should do?
Well, I use wire-wrap, but anything that makes a good connection and
doesn't
get in the way (of other cards, etc) is fine, really. Don't feel you
have to
use wire-wrap, or anything.
If you want to wire-wrap, there are two ways to go. They used to make
manual
tools for wrapping the wire, but I've never used those; I learned with a
gun.
Those are available on eBay now for relatively cheap, since wire-wrap is
now
more or less obsolete (if you're slightly patient - I paid $25 for a kit
containing two guns, a bunch of different tips for different gauge wire,
several packages of pre-stripped wires, several of the strippers that
cut the
wire and strip the right amount, and some un-wrap tools - a great deal
:-);
that's the way I'd go.
They are pretty easy to use; the only real trick is to learn how to
apply just
the right amount of up-down force while doing the wrap. Too much up, and
you
tend to pull the gun up as it wraps, and you don't get a nice tight
wrap. Too
much down, and you get an ugly ball at the bottom of the post as the wrap
winds around itself. The trick is to try and hold the gun neutrally
weighted,
and as it wraps let it push _itself_ up the pin, producing a nice tight
wrap.
And of course you can do test wraps, and undo them if they come out
looking
bad. It doesn't take long to get reasonably good with it.
Noel
3:44 a.m.
Well, I just discovered something interesting... What exactly does the aux
switch on the front panel control? I assumed it was power to the AC plug on
the back of the machine, but it must do something else. With aux in the
down position, it again boots to XXDP! If I flip it up and restart, it
drops back to ODT after trying to boot XXDP from the TU58.
From the documentation, I don't see that it does
anything other than
control that AC plug.
I'm not sure what to make of it! If I'm having some sort of power issue, I
don't see it on the BDV11 test points. They read 4.96 and 12.00, which I
think is correct.
Thanks!
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 9:16 PM, Ben Sinclair <bensinc at gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry for all of the replies to myself! I just tried
booting with halt on,
so it didn't try and boot from the TU58 emulator, and I entered the memory
address program from http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/hints.html.
When I run the program, it halts at 000014. According to that site, the
error address should be in R1, which reads as 004330. I did try and write
to that location, and it reads back fine.
I'm confused though, because it halts at 000014, but that program doesn't
have an instruction at 000014. That may just be me not understanding how it
works, but I would have thought it would halt on some location that
actually had an instruction.
I'm afraid I've messed this thing all up! I had it working better before I
started messing with it, but I guess that's the fun part!
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Ben Sinclair <bensinc at gmail.com> wrote:
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
I just tried swapping the chips from my
"new" M8186 to the old, and have
the same result, by the way!
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Ben Sinclair <bensinc at gmail.com> wrote:
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
I happened to already have a manual wire wrap
tool, and it actually
works pretty well! I was able to wire wrap the jumpers on my serial card
and they seem pretty secure.
However, I'm having other strange problems now. I'm not sure what I did,
but at the moment I can't seem to boot into XXDP as I could before. It
halts back to ODT at 00104, but I know from past runs that the restart
address is 152010. If I do a 152010g, it does run XXDP and seems to work.
I was messing with the halt option on my DLV11, but I currently have it
set to go to ODT on break, which is what it's always been set to. I'm
actually not sure what the common setting for that would be. It's either
break, boot, or do nothing. It was on break earlier, and worked, so I think
something else may be wrong.
I'm currently only running with the CPU, memory, and serial boards
installed.
I did try what you suggested while trying to fix the initial problem. I
reseated the boards and made sure the jumpers were secure, and reseated the
two chips on the CPU board.
I did receive my "new" M8186 from eBay, but it's missing all of the
jumpers, and there is a strange modification... On my original M8186, there
is a capacitor on the left, after the first row of chips, when looking at
it from the tab side. The "new" one has that capacitor replaced with a
piece of perfboard with two smaller capacitors, and a two pin connector. I
have no idea what that might be, but I don't think I should try this board
until I figure it out.
One thing I was thinking of trying was moving the socketed chips from
the new board to the old... I don't have any other great ideas right now
though!
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 6:11 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
> From: Ben Sinclair
> what is the best way to connect the wire-wrap jumpers? I've never
> actually wire wrapped anything, but is that what I should do?
Well, I use wire-wrap, but anything that makes a good connection and
doesn't
get in the way (of other cards, etc) is fine, really. Don't feel you
have to
use wire-wrap, or anything.
If you want to wire-wrap, there are two ways to go. They used to make
manual
tools for wrapping the wire, but I've never used those; I learned with
a gun.
Those are available on eBay now for relatively cheap, since wire-wrap
is now
more or less obsolete (if you're slightly patient - I paid $25 for a kit
containing two guns, a bunch of different tips for different gauge wire,
several packages of pre-stripped wires, several of the strippers that
cut the
wire and strip the right amount, and some un-wrap tools - a great deal
:-);
that's the way I'd go.
They are pretty easy to use; the only real trick is to learn how to
apply just
the right amount of up-down force while doing the wrap. Too much up,
and you
tend to pull the gun up as it wraps, and you don't get a nice tight
wrap. Too
much down, and you get an ugly ball at the bottom of the post as the
wrap
winds around itself. The trick is to try and hold the gun neutrally
weighted,
and as it wraps let it push _itself_ up the pin, producing a nice tight
wrap.
And of course you can do test wraps, and undo them if they come out
looking
bad. It doesn't take long to get reasonably good with it.
Noel
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
4:03 a.m.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Ben Sinclair <bensinc at gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I just discovered something interesting... What
exactly does the aux
switch on the front panel control? I assumed it was power to the AC plug on
the back of the machine, but it must do something else. With aux in the
down position, it again boots to XXDP! If I flip it up and restart, it
drops back to ODT after trying to boot XXDP from the TU58.
From the documentation, I don't see that it does anything other than
control that AC plug.
Take a look at the 11/03-L Front Panel schematic on page 19 of this
scan of the BA11-S Field Maintenance Print Set:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/MP01233_BA11-S_schem_Mar81.pdf
If jumpers W1 and W2 are installed on the front panel PCB then the
BEVENT line will be pulled down to ground when the AUX switch is in
the OFF position and I believe that will disable the CPU from
receiving LTC interrupts.
Maybe your system is having issues handling LTC interrupts.
I have one BA11-S with jumpers W1 and W2 installed on the front panel
PCB and another one with those two jumpers removed, so check your
front panel PCB to be sure whether or not they are installed, but it
sounds like they must be in your case if the position of the AUX
switch causes a behavior change.
-Glen
18 Nov
18 Nov
7:07 a.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Ben Sinclair
<bensinc at gmail.com> wrote:
So far as I remember ifrom my own exeperiments this behavior is pretty
much normal.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Well, I just discovered something interesting...
What exactly does the aux
switch on the front panel control? I assumed it was power to the AC plug on
the back of the machine, but it must do something else. With aux in the
down position, it again boots to XXDP! If I flip it up and restart, it
drops back to ODT after trying to boot XXDP from the TU58.
From the documentation, I don't see that it does anything other than
control that AC plug.
Take a look at the 11/03-L Front Panel schematic on page 19 of this
scan of the BA11-S Field Maintenance Print Set:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/MP01233_BA11-S_schem_Mar81.pdf
If jumpers W1 and W2 are installed on the front panel PCB then the
BEVENT line will be pulled down to ground when the AUX switch is in
the OFF position and I believe that will disable the CPU from
receiving LTC interrupts.
Maybe your system is having issues handling LTC interrupts.
I have one BA11-S with jumpers W1 and W2 installed on the front panel
PCB and another one with those two jumpers removed, so check your
front panel PCB to be sure whether or not they are installed, but it
sounds like they must be in your case if the position of the AUX
switch causes a behavior change.
-Glen
2:45 p.m.
Hi Holm, which behavior are you referring to? The CPU test?
I do find it strange that everything else seems to work great! I feel like
it should pass that test though.
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 1:07 AM, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
Glen Slick wrote:
So far as I remember ifrom my own exeperiments this behavior is pretty
much normal.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
--
Ben Sinclair
ben at bensinclair.com
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Ben Sinclair
<bensinc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I just discovered something interesting... What exactly does the
aux
> switch on the front panel control? I assumed
it was power to the AC
plug on
the back
of the machine, but it must do something else. With aux in the
down position, it again boots to XXDP! If I flip it up and restart, it
drops back to ODT after trying to boot XXDP from the TU58.
From the documentation, I don't see that it does anything other than
control that AC plug.
Take a look at the 11/03-L Front Panel schematic on page 19 of this
scan of the BA11-S Field Maintenance Print Set:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/MP01233_BA11-S_schem_Mar81.pdf
If jumpers W1 and W2 are installed on the front panel PCB then the
BEVENT line will be pulled down to ground when the AUX switch is in
the OFF position and I believe that will disable the CPU from
receiving LTC interrupts.
Maybe your system is having issues handling LTC interrupts.
I have one BA11-S with jumpers W1 and W2 installed on the front panel
PCB and another one with those two jumpers removed, so check your
front panel PCB to be sure whether or not they are installed, but it
sounds like they must be in your case if the position of the AUX
switch causes a behavior change.
-Glen
3700
days inactive
3707
days old
7 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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bensinc＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
holm＠freibergnet.de -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu