Since it seems no one has any PDP-11 stuff, does anyone have a Pro380? I'd really just like to learn more about the PDP-11 and this seems like the easiest route. I'd also like to pickup a cheap VAXstation, as it seems my MicroVAX 3100 is broken. Anything working would be good! Any replies appreciated! -------- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia

Torquil> Since it seems no one has any PDP-11 stuff, does anyone have Torquil> a Pro380? I'd really just like to learn more about the Torquil> PDP-11 and this seems like the easiest route. (By the way, my Pro380 isn't for sale... I missed that part of the question.) As for a Pro being the easiest route, I wouldn't say so. The bus architecture is completely unrelated to that of any other PDP11, and ugly/messy/baroque/bogus at that. There is NO DMA. The Ethernet card uses the worst Ethernet chip I know. Off the shelf software for a Pro is P/OS, a mangled version of RSX. I believe there's also an RT11 that works on it. At one time DEC created a Unix for it, then canceled that a week before the product was supposed to ship, and replaced it by a different unrelated Unix instead. Typical DEC messed up management... No other OS runs (stock) on a Pro, though I have modified RSTS to do that. If you have a choice, a PDP11/73 would be a far better choice, or one of the later ones in that small packaging. Or an 11/23, though those are rather slow. paul

Tom> Paul Koning wrote: Tom> It uses a CTI bus and as far as I know it is the only DEC Tom> product (the 300 series) that uses it. It does however, offer Tom> bitmap graphics, that is usually unavailable for most pdp's. That's true. A pretty limited one. And does any OS actually support the graphics capabilities? I think even P/OS just treated it as lobotomized VT100. Tom> There is a (modified) version of BSD 2.9 that runs on the Tom> Pro350, and is freely available Hm... interesting. A Pro-380 is close enough to a -350 that it might also run there; if not then it shouldn't be hard to fix. paul

Ethan> On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 05:13:33PM -0400, Paul Koning wrote: Tom> There is a (modified) version of BSD 2.9 that runs on the Tom> Pro350, and is freely available Ethan> Well, the Pro-350 uses an F-11 CPU (same as the 11/23 and Ethan> 11/24), and the Pro-380 uses a J-11 CPU (same as the 11/73). Ethan> The largest architectural difference is that the J-11 supports Ethan> split I&D space. As a result, the Pro-380 should be able to Ethan> load 2.11BSD which, I _think_, already supports the MSCP disk Ethan> controller in the Pro series (that's the nature of the patches Ethan> to 2.9BSD for the Pro-350... adding support for MSCP Ethan> controllers). The PRO disk controller isn't an MSCP controller, not within 100 miles. It's a one sector at a time programmed I/O controller, somewhat on the same level of sophistication as a PC floppy controller. The most obvious difference between a Pro-380 and other J-11 based systems is that the Pro clocks the CPU at 10 MHz and the others use around 18 MHz. The reason is that the Pro system controller ASIC used a synchronous design, so the CPU clock had to be an integer multiple of the bus clock. The bus clock frequency was set at 10 MHz, and the assumption was that Harris would deliver on its promise of a 20 MHz J-11 chip. No such luck -- the best they ever managed was 18 MHz, and that forced the Pro to the next lower integer multiple -- 10 MHz... :-( Another difference is that the Pro-380 has a bunch of stuff on the motherboard that's on option cards in the Pro-350 -- the graphics in particular. And the memory isn't on the CTI bus, it's on a dedicated card. Some vague memory says the graphics has more goodies, but I don't remember. It's all in the manual on bitsavers.org... paul

I agree a 11/73 is far superior to a Pro380/350. And as mentioned in this thread, the Pro 350/380's seem harder to find. I currently own 3 Pro 325/350's and a Pro 380 One I keep running and the others are for backup/spares. I also have an Eletronika-85 which is an exact Russian copy of the Dec Pro-350. The Electronika-85 also has the first Winchester disk ever introduced to a desktop PC in the former Soviet Union/Eastern Block. When I get the time, I'll take some pictures of a side-by-side comparison of the Dec 350 and the Electronica-85. It's really weird. The Electronica was designed to be so compatible with the DEC 350, that the parts were to be interchangeable. They are not, however. There are certain differences. Although my Electronica is complete. it does not however power-on. I have lacked the time to track down the problem, so it sits in storage. The fact that everything is labelled in Cyrillic slow troubleshooting down. I have yet to find anybody in the U.S. who has one or ANY documentation, even in Cyrillic. Anybody!! The trouble with that if you are a newbie is the learning curve. and piecing together a Pdp can get quite expensive. I have been lucky in that I bought a lot of stuff at auctions for next-to-nothing. If you live in a city with a major university nearby, check to see if they have surplus auctions. Industrial liquidators are also good. Many pdp's were used in Computer-controlled-machinery and are sold as essentially scrap. Cheers Tom -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning.

Now there is an interesting, and very valid point. Personally the only DEC PRO system I've found was the system console for a VAX. Now that you mention it, I don't think I recall seeing any available in recent years. At the same time this could partially be a geographical situation (even with eBay, as most systems probably don't end up there, insted ending up at a scrapper). Recently someone commented that a PDT-11/150 was pretty common, however, he was in the heart of the old DEC country. It's been my experience that PDT-11/150's are anything but common with PDP-8's being more common! I maintain the way to go is to simply start collecting the parts needed to build a Q-Bus system. Remember a MicroVAX II can be used as the chassis (that's what the BA123 I use originally was). Zane

Out of interest, which chip would that be? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org